Cascadians
New member
Ssooo beautiful, soul stirring, heart expanding, mind blowing.
All Hail Spectacular Newfoundland: Water Rescue Dogs!
- Thread starter Cascadians
- Start date
YorkvilleNewfie
New member
I'm pretty sure Mila could do all of this. Blindfolded.
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Bwahahahahaha! 8dabs eyes* Ok, serious now; very nice video!
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Bwahahahahaha! 8dabs eyes* Ok, serious now; very nice video!
Cascadians
New member
Ted I will use all my self control to restrain myself. But if you only knew how idiotic, parochial, insular, snitty snippy territorial catty intimidating snotty oppressive ppl can be to prevent others from even knowing these beautiful majestic Newfoundlands are capable of being living modern day legends .... aarrrggh.
But the brave true Italians have brought the Newfoundland back to its roots, its living rescue glory, and I thank God for them and those who are able to think for themselves, with their own brains and eyeballs, and see beyond their own backyard so to speak.
I am ssoooo blessed and fortunate to be about to get a taste of this miracle, without going to Italy (yet).
*sits on fingers* *no, shoves fingers into gloves and continues cleaning window frames (all new glass being installed)*
But the brave true Italians have brought the Newfoundland back to its roots, its living rescue glory, and I thank God for them and those who are able to think for themselves, with their own brains and eyeballs, and see beyond their own backyard so to speak.
I am ssoooo blessed and fortunate to be about to get a taste of this miracle, without going to Italy (yet).
*sits on fingers* *no, shoves fingers into gloves and continues cleaning window frames (all new glass being installed)*
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pecanpiepatti
New member
glorious goosebumps!
KodysGrandma
New member
Lovely Leska, thank you
Tracy
New member
Wow,
Yes I agree with those that get a little miffed about how it is here, I am more worried about the crap that is in our water or what floats up on the beach. But our country is so backwards to say the least about the true benefits of these dogs and others. But then sometimes it is better being the secret that we all know it is. Thank you for sharing, now I want to water train in a kilt, whew bring on the cold water!
Yes I agree with those that get a little miffed about how it is here, I am more worried about the crap that is in our water or what floats up on the beach. But our country is so backwards to say the least about the true benefits of these dogs and others. But then sometimes it is better being the secret that we all know it is. Thank you for sharing, now I want to water train in a kilt, whew bring on the cold water!
marylouz
New member
OK- I just spent some time reviewing the Water Trial Regs for - Belgium, Finland, Germany, Poland and the UK- the exercises are for the most part very similar to US and Canadian tests. The group that is different is the Italian group and the biggest difference is that the group is NOT a dog club or working under the auspices of a dog club- it's under the Italian Coast Guard and is much more akin to the SAR groups working in the US. If you look at their testing requirements, the dog is used almost exclusively for towing with the bulk of the "rescue" work falling to the handler- for all intents and purposes- the handlers are pretty much life-guard certified - they do the endurance swims, they are dealing with the panicked drowner and performing the rescue hold and resuscitation while they hold the dogs harness - I am not diminishing what this group is doing - but - if people in the states want to do this type of rescue work, they should be connecting with their local municipalities, getting life guard certified and bringing their dogs to work - and yes- there are liability concerns- I do not see anyplace letting a non-certified life guard work a beach simply because they have a Newf - there are countless cases of well meaning bystanders drowning because they got caught in unpredictable water trying to save someone. There is a reason the Italians swim out with their dogs- it's because people who are actually drowning are panic-stricken, cannot listen to instructions and will just as likely drown your dog as grab ahold of it's bum for a ride to shore - US Coast Guard rescue swimmers are highly trained to cope with people in these situations - they are elite athletes and their capabilities in the water are far above the average dog handlers.
Capri
New member
MLZ: The competition exercises in every country are pretty much very similar, apart from some of the Russian and Spanish exercises (which are actually quite interesting!), but that is due to the fact that there are only so many possibilities of exercises for a test situation. Even the Italian Newf club water regulations are quite simple, pretty much the same as everywhere else. And even the IRO regulations are simplistic, test-like, which would be of no use in a real situation, even though it IS the IRO. I have seen some video of the IRO water tests and I was appalled to see the quality (lack of) and control (lack of) that the dogs which actually passed the regulations had. IRO water rescue is quite different from the high standards that other IRO (and other SAR certifications) require. This is most likely due to the fact that the people who wrote the regulations didn't have the background to do it, and only wrote down on paper what sounded good enough. (and that there are far and few in between IRO water dogs that would actually be called to participate in real situations - none that I know of, unlike the SICS teams).
This is the main difference between the other regulations compared to the Italian SICS and the ILS regulations for K9 lifeguard teams. The SICS & ILS regulations are based on experience, seeing what worked and what did not, and attempting to make regulations that commoners could achieve, with the aid of the dog. The regulations do make absolute certainty that the dog-handler relationship is flawless, and that the dog is well trained and always under control, reliable, but it does not require the handler to be a top-notch-fit lifeguard. Yes, you need to know how to act in every situation and yes you need to know how to save people, but you have your dog to aid you with the transportation of the victim from the water to the shore. that's what the dogs are most useful for. Once the distances are over 100-150m, the K9 team is quicker (and has more energy as the dog does the towing) to reach the victim than a fit lifeguard would. And they are quicker to reach the victim than a boat would. That's why the distances are usually long, because that's exactly where dogs are of most use. There is absolutely no point in sending a dog, or going with a dog to save a person from 10-50m. The lifeguard will always be fit enough and quicker than what a dog would.
Yes, there are concerns with liability and that's why the certifications are valid only for a year, and that's why the regulations do make certainty that the dog is reliable in every single situation. (and this is proven by the variety of trainings, there is no point in just training for a set exercise, or sending your dog alone (as tests would) as real situations are always different from one another, and you would always go with your dog. It is crucial for the dog to know how to just "wait" in the water, and listen to you, rather than perform the exercises on his own (as tests require).
At the time of reaching the shore, it is always expected that the ambulance team will take over (that's why they always work as teams: calling for safety and own personal safety and assuring that nothing can go wrong), but if the ambulance isn't there, of course the team will need to continue with resuscitation (which they have already started in water, saving a lot of time!).
Of course, as with SAR dogs, and human lifeguards, the SICS dogs and handlers are covered by the club insurance.
I would very much differentiate tests from the real lifesaving. I would never ever send a WRDX dog to save a real life (unless it was SICS or ILS trained). However any SICS/ILS dog would pass with at least 80% any test in any country, due to two simple facts: listening to commands and training variety.
The current tests (in every country) are just a fun (hopefully!) hobby that you can do with your dog, and a way for the dog to express itself in a natural environment. I do thoroughly recommend everyone to do waterwork with their dogs as it's great fun for everyone
. If the handlers want to participate in tests, that's great also, but they should remember that passing tests is not a way to measure the dog's "working ability" or "lifeguard instinct", nor are the dogs ready to save lives after a title, but it doesn't make it any less "worth it". They are having loads of fun and doing good PR (and preventative lifesaving) work and that's all that matters.
This is the main difference between the other regulations compared to the Italian SICS and the ILS regulations for K9 lifeguard teams. The SICS & ILS regulations are based on experience, seeing what worked and what did not, and attempting to make regulations that commoners could achieve, with the aid of the dog. The regulations do make absolute certainty that the dog-handler relationship is flawless, and that the dog is well trained and always under control, reliable, but it does not require the handler to be a top-notch-fit lifeguard. Yes, you need to know how to act in every situation and yes you need to know how to save people, but you have your dog to aid you with the transportation of the victim from the water to the shore. that's what the dogs are most useful for. Once the distances are over 100-150m, the K9 team is quicker (and has more energy as the dog does the towing) to reach the victim than a fit lifeguard would. And they are quicker to reach the victim than a boat would. That's why the distances are usually long, because that's exactly where dogs are of most use. There is absolutely no point in sending a dog, or going with a dog to save a person from 10-50m. The lifeguard will always be fit enough and quicker than what a dog would.
Yes, there are concerns with liability and that's why the certifications are valid only for a year, and that's why the regulations do make certainty that the dog is reliable in every single situation. (and this is proven by the variety of trainings, there is no point in just training for a set exercise, or sending your dog alone (as tests would) as real situations are always different from one another, and you would always go with your dog. It is crucial for the dog to know how to just "wait" in the water, and listen to you, rather than perform the exercises on his own (as tests require).
At the time of reaching the shore, it is always expected that the ambulance team will take over (that's why they always work as teams: calling for safety and own personal safety and assuring that nothing can go wrong), but if the ambulance isn't there, of course the team will need to continue with resuscitation (which they have already started in water, saving a lot of time!).
Of course, as with SAR dogs, and human lifeguards, the SICS dogs and handlers are covered by the club insurance.
I would very much differentiate tests from the real lifesaving. I would never ever send a WRDX dog to save a real life (unless it was SICS or ILS trained). However any SICS/ILS dog would pass with at least 80% any test in any country, due to two simple facts: listening to commands and training variety.
The current tests (in every country) are just a fun (hopefully!) hobby that you can do with your dog, and a way for the dog to express itself in a natural environment. I do thoroughly recommend everyone to do waterwork with their dogs as it's great fun for everyone
. If the handlers want to participate in tests, that's great also, but they should remember that passing tests is not a way to measure the dog's "working ability" or "lifeguard instinct", nor are the dogs ready to save lives after a title, but it doesn't make it any less "worth it". They are having loads of fun and doing good PR (and preventative lifesaving) work and that's all that matters.
Capri
New member
Oh, and just to comment on that video: It's an International Newfoundland (and landseer) Waterwork meeting. The event circulates annually between Italy, Switzerland, France and Germany, with participants from many other countries. Usually about 200 newfs in the water. We went to the one in France a few years ago, and will definitely go again, but haven't had the time . It's every year during the "Pentecote" weekend after Easter.
Saturday is the land routines, Sunday water and Monday is the closing ceremony.
photos from 2010: http://watercubs.com/en_articles_waterwork_Dienville2010.htm
. It's every year during the "Pentecote" weekend after Easter. Saturday is the land routines, Sunday water and Monday is the closing ceremony.
photos from 2010: http://watercubs.com/en_articles_waterwork_Dienville2010.htm
marylouz
New member
Bettina- I agree whole-heartedly - Water Tests are developed by Newfoundland Clubs to showcase the instinct that remains in the breed, and to provide an opportunity for dogs and handlers to create a good working bond - that one reason why, in the US, the tests are pass/fail and there is not a "competition" everyone supports the other teams.
Water Tests are a whole different activity from lifeguarding and in the US each team would need to work within the guidelines of their own municipality (city/county/state) depending on which entity has jurisdiction over the body of water where the team wished to work.
SAR groups in the US do have a well developed infrastructure and coordination system, however right now all of the dogs I know of trained for water search are cadaver dogs, they are not patrol dogs. Perhaps coordinating with the American Red Cross would be a good starting point, since they have fairly universally accepted guidelines for life guard certification.
Those people who bemoan the lack of actual working lifeguard dogs should be working within the SAR/Red Cross/and other groups which already have the framework in place rather than having the expectation that the NCA should get a helicopter and every regional club should buy a jet ski.
Water Tests are a whole different activity from lifeguarding and in the US each team would need to work within the guidelines of their own municipality (city/county/state) depending on which entity has jurisdiction over the body of water where the team wished to work.
SAR groups in the US do have a well developed infrastructure and coordination system, however right now all of the dogs I know of trained for water search are cadaver dogs, they are not patrol dogs. Perhaps coordinating with the American Red Cross would be a good starting point, since they have fairly universally accepted guidelines for life guard certification.
Those people who bemoan the lack of actual working lifeguard dogs should be working within the SAR/Red Cross/and other groups which already have the framework in place rather than having the expectation that the NCA should get a helicopter and every regional club should buy a jet ski.
Megaboz
New member
Dear All,
Hello I am a National SICS Instructor (www.canisalvataggio.it www.waterrescuedogs.com), for those asking for numbers:
Over 400 K9 + Handler Units Certified in Italy (These are active Dogs who have done/renewed their yearly certification)
33+ Lives saved during this 2012 Summer season
We are a Volunteer NO Profit Organization, we self fund our selfs with NO State/gov Funding.
We are a NON "racist" Organization ANY dog (over 25KG. with good water attitude ) can be a good water rescue dog!
Regarding our Dog/Human Training, we work in a different way in respect to "traditional" water work and Life guard techniques, what we can achieve together with our Dogs is something incredible!
I personally would not dream to go save someone by myself, but with my Dog aside I have no problems.
Please visit our websites to learn more about us and what we do:
www.canisalvataggio.it
http://www.waterrescuedogs.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SICS...ola-Italiana-Cani-Salvataggio/214494445275461
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=28NMj0fdDM4
PS: We do not like writing much, we prefer to concentrate our energy in saving lives!
Hello I am a National SICS Instructor (www.canisalvataggio.it www.waterrescuedogs.com), for those asking for numbers:
Over 400 K9 + Handler Units Certified in Italy (These are active Dogs who have done/renewed their yearly certification)
33+ Lives saved during this 2012 Summer season
We are a Volunteer NO Profit Organization, we self fund our selfs with NO State/gov Funding.
We are a NON "racist" Organization ANY dog (over 25KG. with good water attitude ) can be a good water rescue dog!
Regarding our Dog/Human Training, we work in a different way in respect to "traditional" water work and Life guard techniques, what we can achieve together with our Dogs is something incredible!
I personally would not dream to go save someone by myself, but with my Dog aside I have no problems.
Please visit our websites to learn more about us and what we do:
www.canisalvataggio.it
http://www.waterrescuedogs.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SICS...ola-Italiana-Cani-Salvataggio/214494445275461
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=28NMj0fdDM4
PS: We do not like writing much, we prefer to concentrate our energy in saving lives!
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