What do you think? Please
- Thread starter hdnewfies
- Start date
ardeagold
New member
To get outside opinions on your dog(s) ... how they compare to the breed standard...they should be shown. That's the way you get various opinions from various judges.
If the dog gets it's CH, then that's better, but some show for a while, and do get points towards their CH, but never finish for one reason or another. Those reasons vary and can be due to the owner's inability to continue, or the dog got injured, or so many reasons. But if they've been out there, and have done well while they were being shown, then at least the breeder knows the dog does conform.
If you want a Newf that looks like and behaves like a Newf, then you need to research and find a reputable breeder who carefully plans his/her breedings.
The problem with many BYB's is that they breed indiscriminately, without researching pedigrees, and the resultant puppies aren't consistent in looks, health, longevity, working ability, temperament ... anything.
There's a lot more to breeding a quality dog than just throwing two AKC registered Newfs together and hoping for the best.
Two CH's can be bred and still not be a good match. Reputable breeders know the lines they're breeding, the health history of both, the genetics of both, and do their best to produce consistent quality Newfs.
I think most people who want to purchase a Newf want one that looks and acts like a Newf, and of course, is healthy. Nothing's guaranteed, no dog is perfect, but at least with a reputable breeder you have a pretty good chance of getting a good quality dog, whether it's a pet or a show dog.
If the dog gets it's CH, then that's better, but some show for a while, and do get points towards their CH, but never finish for one reason or another. Those reasons vary and can be due to the owner's inability to continue, or the dog got injured, or so many reasons. But if they've been out there, and have done well while they were being shown, then at least the breeder knows the dog does conform.
If you want a Newf that looks like and behaves like a Newf, then you need to research and find a reputable breeder who carefully plans his/her breedings.
The problem with many BYB's is that they breed indiscriminately, without researching pedigrees, and the resultant puppies aren't consistent in looks, health, longevity, working ability, temperament ... anything.
There's a lot more to breeding a quality dog than just throwing two AKC registered Newfs together and hoping for the best.
Two CH's can be bred and still not be a good match. Reputable breeders know the lines they're breeding, the health history of both, the genetics of both, and do their best to produce consistent quality Newfs.
I think most people who want to purchase a Newf want one that looks and acts like a Newf, and of course, is healthy. Nothing's guaranteed, no dog is perfect, but at least with a reputable breeder you have a pretty good chance of getting a good quality dog, whether it's a pet or a show dog.
Last edited:
Jeannie
Super Moderator
IMO if the dog has health checks that is more important than champions in the pedigree if you are looking for a family pet.
On the other hand: A breeder who shows thier dogs and have champions are breeding newfs that meet the breed standared. If they don't show how do they know they are breeding good stock? Again if you are not interested in showing then you won't not care if the dog didn't meet the breed standard. I would look for some Champions in the pedigree so you will get a newf that looks like a newf should. Many BYB don't worry about temperament or looks, they just want money. This usually means they don't do health checks either.
Just because a newf is a Champion does not mean that dog has health clearences.
On the other hand: A breeder who shows thier dogs and have champions are breeding newfs that meet the breed standared. If they don't show how do they know they are breeding good stock? Again if you are not interested in showing then you won't not care if the dog didn't meet the breed standard. I would look for some Champions in the pedigree so you will get a newf that looks like a newf should. Many BYB don't worry about temperament or looks, they just want money. This usually means they don't do health checks either.
Just because a newf is a Champion does not mean that dog has health clearences.
suse
New member
In my opinion, being a great loving family dog is not enough if you want a real newfoundland. A great loving family dog can be found at any shelter or rescue across the country.
Breeding your dog just because you love it and think it would make great puppies is irresponsible.
You did ask for our opinions, right?
Ardeagold said it best, I think.
Breeding your dog just because you love it and think it would make great puppies is irresponsible.
You did ask for our opinions, right?
Ardeagold said it best, I think.
Blacknewfs
New member
Some breeders prefer doing the working stuff, others prefer the show ring -- not all do both. I wish more did.
Personally, if I had to, I would choose working newfs over show newfs...but that's just me. Ideally I want to see them achieve both. My personal opinion is that the ideal breeder shows their dogs in conformation, and participates in working events also, like water tests, draft dog tests. etc. Having said that, breeders are human and only have so much time/resources/etc. Many simply can't do both.
I think if a breeder is not showing their dogs, they should have a good/valid reason, and their breeding stock should come from champions. Equally, if a breeder doesn't have working titles on their dog they should also be able to explain why, and other dogs from their lines shoudl have those titles. At the least, a breeder should be participating in one or the other, IMO.
Having a CH title on a dog does NOT mean the dog is an exemplary example of the breed necessarily, and certainly does not speak towards the dog's working ability or overall health, that of it's parents, it's longevity or temperament. There's more to a good dog than just show looks.
All breeders should put health, longevity and temperament at the top of their list of things to be breeding for, and should be able to show you many generations of breeding stock and explain each and every choice of breeding dogs, with a specific goal in mind for each pairing.
Personally, if I had to, I would choose working newfs over show newfs...but that's just me. Ideally I want to see them achieve both. My personal opinion is that the ideal breeder shows their dogs in conformation, and participates in working events also, like water tests, draft dog tests. etc. Having said that, breeders are human and only have so much time/resources/etc. Many simply can't do both.
I think if a breeder is not showing their dogs, they should have a good/valid reason, and their breeding stock should come from champions. Equally, if a breeder doesn't have working titles on their dog they should also be able to explain why, and other dogs from their lines shoudl have those titles. At the least, a breeder should be participating in one or the other, IMO.
Having a CH title on a dog does NOT mean the dog is an exemplary example of the breed necessarily, and certainly does not speak towards the dog's working ability or overall health, that of it's parents, it's longevity or temperament. There's more to a good dog than just show looks.
All breeders should put health, longevity and temperament at the top of their list of things to be breeding for, and should be able to show you many generations of breeding stock and explain each and every choice of breeding dogs, with a specific goal in mind for each pairing.
Sheila B.
New member
Adding to the above . . . our first Newf came from a backyard breeder. When health problems developed (resulting in multiple joint surgeries) the breeder said, "oh I've never heard of that." I had many questions and she would not answer them. No support system. I did not want to give the dog back, I just needed to ask questions and get guidance. Never again! Good breeders care about their pups for life and will usually require a contract to protect both breeder and owner. It's all up front and everyone understands their part in the care of the dog. I prefer to deal with people who will do everything in their power to assure their pups are going to reliable as well as loving owners.
hdnewfies
New member
But what I am hearing is that the newf is only for show? I do want opinions. My dream is to breed, but can I be a responsible breeder and do draft work or water work instead? I have no desire to show, I would not mind learning more about it but a newf was made for water not the show ring. So if I am breeding 2 dogs from CH lines and do health checks and gets cleared on all the health issues is that still being a BYB?
ardeagold
New member
Well, the quality breeders who produce working dogs also show them. There are a lot of good working Newfs that don't really look like Newfs. They don't fit the breed standard.
IF they're a good representative of the breed, they should be able to do all of it. Some are good show and draft dogs, but not great water dogs...and vice versa.
As Sandra said, some people just can't do it all, but you do the obedience tests (obedience is important for water and draft dogs) at dog shows...might as well put them in the ring while you're there! They're in the same place on the same days.
It's about producing the best Newf you can, and to do that, you need to know that the dogs being bred do conform to the standard. And then...all the rest (as I said above...genetics, longevity, health, temperament, working ability)
It's a whole package, and if you're going to breed, breed the best Newf you can. There are a lot of dogs who can pull a cart. My Goldens can pull a cart. I have Goldens that can do all of the Newf water work exercises too...one could and would pull a boat if I asked him to (he's 95 lbs and obviously does not fit the Golden breed standard due to size). But, just because they can do the work doesn't make them a Newf.
IF they're a good representative of the breed, they should be able to do all of it. Some are good show and draft dogs, but not great water dogs...and vice versa.
As Sandra said, some people just can't do it all, but you do the obedience tests (obedience is important for water and draft dogs) at dog shows...might as well put them in the ring while you're there! They're in the same place on the same days.
It's about producing the best Newf you can, and to do that, you need to know that the dogs being bred do conform to the standard. And then...all the rest (as I said above...genetics, longevity, health, temperament, working ability)
It's a whole package, and if you're going to breed, breed the best Newf you can. There are a lot of dogs who can pull a cart. My Goldens can pull a cart. I have Goldens that can do all of the Newf water work exercises too...one could and would pull a boat if I asked him to (he's 95 lbs and obviously does not fit the Golden breed standard due to size). But, just because they can do the work doesn't make them a Newf.
Last edited:
hdnewfies
New member
I appreciate everyone's input, I'm sure I will get more. I live in central oregon, and am not sure how to start to get our puppy ready for showing if we decide to do that. We don't have many shows around the area to even participate in. That's why I love this site. I have learned so much.
I am 40 yrs old and have wanted to breed and own Newfs since I was 5 yrs old. My dream is coming to fruition. Some fun exciting yrs ahead for us.
I am 40 yrs old and have wanted to breed and own Newfs since I was 5 yrs old. My dream is coming to fruition. Some fun exciting yrs ahead for us.
ardeagold
New member
I think I was typing as you were posting. I revised my post right before yours. My last paragraph might have been the most important thing I've said.
Try to find yourself a mentor. Are you a member of the regional club out there? Talk to some breeders and see if you can find someone to guide you. That's the best way to learn the ropes.
There's so much to learn and having someone to help you makes it so much easier!
Try to find yourself a mentor. Are you a member of the regional club out there? Talk to some breeders and see if you can find someone to guide you. That's the best way to learn the ropes.
There's so much to learn and having someone to help you makes it so much easier!
Angela
Super Moderator
The PNW club has some great people who I'm sure would be willing to help you, wow, 200 miles is a long way!
What about the breeder of your Newf, can they help mentor you with showing.
Are there any handling classes in your area, that is a good place to start learning how to show.
What about the breeder of your Newf, can they help mentor you with showing.
Are there any handling classes in your area, that is a good place to start learning how to show.
Jeannie
Super Moderator
I know your dream to breed newfs. It WAS mine too. I bought Adam in hopes he'd be a good stud dog. I showed him as a pup, he is really nice, at 6 months of age he took BOB at his 2nd show. He has excellent hips and cleared/passed on every other health check - heart, patellas, thyroid, elbows but his bite went off. Slowly his bite got bad as he got older. I refused to breed him when he could pass that one. So I neutered him.
So I bought Chase to be a foundation bitch. She is a very pretty nice moving bitch. I showed her and she has points toward her CH including one major. She is small which really does not bother me, but her hips are bad and I found out this summer she has OCD. I won't breed her either.
My husband has fits that I spent $3300 on two newfs to start a kennel and I refuse to breed either. Both dogs come from a long line of CH who have good health clearences. Nothing is a guarantee, no matter what health clearences the parents may have or if they have their Championship. I will say I have two very nice pets that I love dearly. That, to me, is more important than a show dog. BTW all my dogs have some sort of working title.
So I bought Chase to be a foundation bitch. She is a very pretty nice moving bitch. I showed her and she has points toward her CH including one major. She is small which really does not bother me, but her hips are bad and I found out this summer she has OCD. I won't breed her either.
My husband has fits that I spent $3300 on two newfs to start a kennel and I refuse to breed either. Both dogs come from a long line of CH who have good health clearences. Nothing is a guarantee, no matter what health clearences the parents may have or if they have their Championship. I will say I have two very nice pets that I love dearly. That, to me, is more important than a show dog. BTW all my dogs have some sort of working title.
hdnewfies
New member
Sound Bay Newfs
Active member
Where were you planning on getting your breeding stock from? No responsible show breeder will sell you a pup with an open registration that you can breed. So therefore, you would have to get your breeding pair from a BYB. So then you would be a BYB as well. If you want a dog that can work or swim, you can get one from the shelter. What you pay for when you buy a pup from a responsible NCA breeder, is that the pup is from parents that have met the breed standard, have health clearances, pups are cardiac cleared. etc.
Jeannie
Super Moderator
Not always. I got Adam and Chase on open registration with no co-ownership. I didn't know either breeder. Maybe it was my references. (I use to work for one of the better known kennels.) I don't know but neither asked for co-ownership or limited registration. Both of these breeders show and win on a national level. Adam's breeders are very well known and have bred/shown many national champions.
hdnewfies
New member
the breeder we are talking to has CH and that is where we will get our female. our Male comes from a very reputable line with CH also. But I guess she would be considered a BYB. Although she has all the health clearances. Cant a puppy from a BYB be shown? The breeder we are getting our female im sure would be open to mentor me but we live 2000 miles away.