Puppy forum - family can post - not the breeder?

[Jeannie]

Even getting a pup whose parents have OFA good hips does not mean anything. One of my dog's parents were both good with some excellents in their families and my newf has very bad hips as well as OCD. Both her parents' elbows were clear. Nothing is a guarantee.

 

[sarnewfie]

"Nothing is a gaurantee" Which is why people should have warranty on live animals. Gaurantee is for something that is built by human hands. No one breeder can GAURANTEE their puppy will be perfectly healthy. That also leads to giant breeds and growth. Many times a newbie will feed that pup treat after treat, Feed them to much food, allowing the pup to get heavy, not excersise them properly and totally ignore the coaching from the experienced Breeder. When the pup has joint issues from this and we cannot say it is all influenced by genetics becouse to this day there still is no marker for Displaycia The puppy person who did not listen to one thing the breeder coached them on, demands money back. Money that went into the breeding.
I have an issue with that. Sorry. I have had a Warranty, not a Gaurantee becouse i cannot rightfully gaurantee the health. I did not build these dogs from human made products. This is Genetics, Environment, Diet, And so much more that influences how they turn out. All the health testing in the world still does not produce picture perfect healthy puppies. It is a guessing game at best. Just as your human child can have problems.

 

[Sun Valley]

No I'm not taking them both, I have my deposit on a litter due ...

I don't know of any reputable breeders who take deposits BEFORE a litter is due.

Buying a Newf puppy at 8 weeks is something else that raises a red flag...most Cardiologists don't even want to see puppies for auscultation until at least 9 weeks or older.

A hip rating of fair is NORMAL, or the OFA wouldn't have issued a number...try not to get your panties in a wad over a fair rating. After all OFA is very subjective when 3 radiologists are reading the x-ray. Some people prefer using OVC, which is less subjective and only one radiologist looks at the x-ray.

There also is NO place or web site where breeder's look for puppy buyers...it's really the other way around...buyers look for breeder's.

Lou Ann...who IS menopausal and proud of it...)

 

[4ondafloor]

Lou Ann...who IS menopausal and proud of it...)

:!rolling:

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

The answer is no. No responsible or reputable breeder has so many unclaimed puppies lying around that they are out there scouring the net for buyers. There is typically a waiting list, usually quite long, for pups from reputable breeders, and that includes pet quality pups. Often, waiting lists are filled even before a pregnancy has been confirmed.

Buyers search for breeders, not the other way around.

It's early and I'm quite groggy, so this will be brief.

As you can see Dolly, I did in fact answer your original question, as did other members...

Also, I stand by what I said right from the beginning, I believe you have no business breeding a Newf and if I were a breeder, I would never sell a person such as yourself a pup. Period. Your plans and motivations worry me.

Also, I'm 28 years old and I have a six month old infant son. He grew inside of and exited my ridiculously fertile body on September 3rd, 2010.

Additionally, I've got news for you honey, keeping the mostly white body of a Landseer bright white is the least of your worries with regards to keeping a Newf clean. Just peruse this website or Google and search the term Flooger and then try to imagine what it's like trying to wash one of those off of your ceiling, your walls, your cabinets, your mother's face when she comes by to visit and off of the inside of your shoes before you go to work.

 

[lotus]

Lou Ann...who IS menopausal and proud of it...)

I'm not menopausal yet( i can barely pronounce the damn word)
Got 5 kiddies just gave birth to my youngest, so my uterus works just fine..ugh!
" You mean it still works?" my reaction to my last pregancy test. Oh Heck
was looking forward to being " menopausal"

FUNNY AS HELL Lou Ann

 

[lotus]

I need a cool spray bottle and a fan because it's " gettin hot in here"
This thread was HOTTTTT! Like a train wreck.....just had to keep watching".
This is page turner...coulnd't wait to get to the next response.

Ok ok girlz, not poking fun at anyone just trying to lighten the mood.

Peace

 

[Garden_girl]

but I can now understand why she would like a newfie as a Service dog.....being that it is for agoraphobia. Detailed training is not required, good obedience will do and the dog just has to give her confidence. I can now see why some of the requests fit....... To give her confidence and size does matter. Part of this makes more sense to me now. If in the same situation I would probably also prefer one of the giant breeds.

I agree with you, Ronnie. Agoraphobics are notorious for needing all of their ducks in a row. They have a great desire for predictability in their lives. That would explain why she wants to breed, she wants to be certain she will have service dogs for the future. While this may sound nonsensical to an experienced Newf breeder, knowing the unpredictability of any given litter, it makes perfect sense to someone given to unrealistic expectations. They have tunnel vision (in the figurative sense) they make up their minds that this is the answer to their problems, so they push on, full speed ahead.

Agorophobes are prone to feel hurt and anger much faster than the average person (extra-sensitive), and possibly why she lashed out so quickly when people suspected her of being disingenuous. There is a heightened sense of rigidity and they are always thinking ahead as they are 'consumed' with their condition and their future. I've seen evidence of all of these traits in her posts.

I believe her when she says she wants to get out and do things with her children and she believes a Newf will be able to provide escape from her physical isolation, in addition to therapy for her and assisting her to meet people when she goes out in public (providing another form of therapy). How many times do you go out with your Newf and people stop to talk to you? All the time, right? She wants a Newf as an ice breaker, allowing her to conquer barriers that she hasn't been able to cope with previously when she's out in public.

Nope, I don't know her, didn't PM her, and nope, I don't have agoraphobia, but I do have a childhood friend that is agoraphobic and my MIL was agoraphobic, only leaving her home to visit immediate relatives. They tend to be very intelligent people, also. Believe me when I tell you, it is a life altering, truly debilitating disorder. I am not excusing the behavior, just explaining it. If that *is*, in fact, what's going on with this person.

I can't *know* that she isn't trying to start up a BYB, just that from what I've read, the behavior/symptoms coincide. :shuffle:

 

[Ren]

I need a cool spray bottle and a fan because it's " gettin hot in here"
This thread was HOTTTTT! Like a train wreck.....just had to keep watching".
This is page turner...coulnd't wait to get to the next response.

Ok ok girlz, not poking fun at anyone just trying to lighten the mood.

Peace

Got my popcorn out too. :new_popcornsmiley:

 

[jane]

Lou Ann...who IS menopausal and proud of it...)

:!rolling:OMG..Too funny!!!
I will add this....A reputable breeder will also research a buyer as much as the buyer researched the breeder. From my first breeder 17 years ago, who had me read a particular book and then she basically quized me, to my current breeder who wouldn't even speak to me until she spoke to my vet. To me, that is a breeder making sure her babies will be with good people and families.

 

[NessaM]

I agree with you, Ronnie. Agoraphobics are notorious for needing all of their ducks in a row. They have a great desire for predictability in their lives. That would explain why she wants to breed, she wants to be certain she will have service dogs for the future. While this may sound nonsensical to an experienced Newf breeder, knowing the unpredictability of any given litter, it makes perfect sense to someone given to unrealistic expectations. They have tunnel vision (in the figurative sense) they make up their minds that this is the answer to their problems, so they push on, full speed ahead.

Agorophobes are prone to feel hurt and anger much faster than the average person (extra-sensitive), and possibly why she lashed out so quickly when people suspected her of being disingenuous. There is a heightened sense of rigidity and they are always thinking ahead as they are 'consumed' with their condition and their future. I've seen evidence of all of these traits in her posts.

I believe her when she says she wants to get out and do things with her children and she believes a Newf will be able to provide escape from her physical isolation, in addition to therapy for her and assisting her to meet people when she goes out in public (providing another form of therapy). How many times do you go out with your Newf and people stop to talk to you? All the time, right? She wants a Newf as an ice breaker, allowing her to conquer barriers that she hasn't been able to cope with previously when she's out in public.

Nope, I don't know her, didn't PM her, and nope, I don't have agoraphobia, but I do have a childhood friend that is agoraphobic and my MIL was agoraphobic, only leaving her home to visit immediate relatives. They tend to be very intelligent people, also. Believe me when I tell you, it is a life altering, truly debilitating disorder. I am not excusing the behavior, just explaining it. If that *is*, in fact, what's going on with this person.

I can't *know* that she isn't trying to start up a BYB, just that from what I've read, the behavior/symptoms coincide. :shuffle:

Really glad you posted this. Makes a LOT of sense. Doesn't make her right of course, but it certainly explains some things.

 

[OurnewfDarwin]

Wow, wow, wow. I only read through the first three pages---ummm. Yeah. Wow.

Any person can pull together $2000 for a dog--especially this time of year (tax time). I love the whole theory that spending more on a dog means your dog will get better care. My dog costs $50 a month for vet insurance, $220 to feed, $100 for grooming, $15 for heart worm meds, and $15 for flea meds. This doesn't begin to factor in the molding he ate yesterday, the countless toys we buy, the 7 baby gates he has destroyed just by knocking them over.

But, yeah---being able to buy a newf must surely mean you can care for it properly. Yeah, that's it.

 

[Tula]

I'm almost afraid to post As this thing unraveled...more info came to light re: agoraphobia. This is a great forum, very educational......but experienced members
" suffer no fools"......I have been the recipient of "succinct" answers myself. We all share a passionate love for this breed....some of us are just less experienced than others. Tula........definitely menopausal....between this thread and living with four newfs - I do need a spray bottle and fan

 

[Sun Valley]

I need a cool spray bottle and a fan because it's " gettin hot in here"

Hey,

That's my line....you know,..being menopausal and all...)))

LA

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

Wow, wow, wow. I only read through the first three pages---ummm. Yeah. Wow.

Any person can pull together $2000 for a dog--especially this time of year (tax time). I love the whole theory that spending more on a dog means your dog will get better care. My dog costs $50 a month for vet insurance, $220 to feed, $100 for grooming, $15 for heart worm meds, and $15 for flea meds. This doesn't begin to factor in the molding he ate yesterday, the countless toys we buy, the 7 baby gates he has destroyed just by knocking them over.

But, yeah---being able to buy a newf must surely mean you can care for it properly. Yeah, that's it.

Sometimes I will think about how much money we spend on Mila on a monthly basis (well over $400 just for food, daycare and grooming, but if you add in the car payment for the SUV we had to buy to be able to transport her...well over $800) and I go, "We must be a little nutso-beano for spending such an amount", but then I see a post like this and I breathe a sigh of relief that, no, I am not insane or alone

I always joke that a Newf costs more in upkeep than a Clydesdale and, while funny, is the honest to god truth!

 

[twright1231]

I’ve read through this thread a number of times. Dollyboons, the answer to your initial question was contained within your question.

Is there a forum anyone knows of where you (the buyer) can post what you are looking for in a puppy, then breeders can contact you?
If not, there should be!
I have contacted tons of breeders, it would be nice if they could contact me if they had what I was looking for...

They are not contacting you because they don’t have what you are looking for. You are certainly entitled to have very specific criteria, but your options will be drastically limited.

I am not being combative or judgmental and ask that you please consider a few things:
· Every member of this forum is only here to learn from each other and help one another.
· Everyone has his or her own communication style. Many of us don’t know each other personally but have learned, over time, each person’s style of communicating.
· The initial answers given to you directly answered your question. Then, additional posts and questions were intended to provide you with other options.

That is a forum working as it is intended to work. This forum is a highly concentrated group of people with extensive experience with Newfoundlands, whether it is in breeding, showing, or just family pets. Some of us are newer to the breed, but we often have experiences that also help others.

Take away information you find that is helpful. You are doing yourself a great disservice by generalizing the entire forum based upon some responses that don’t go along with your original long-term plan. You might consider (if you haven’t already) sitting back and reading through old posts. There is a wealth of information on this site you won’t find anywhere else.

 

[NessaM]

In most cases it is better for the owner to train their own dog, so that way the dog knows exactly what the owner needs from it. Service dog training can start at anytime in the dogs life, even an elderly dog can be a useful service animal. Most people wait until after their dog passes the “K9 Good Citizen Test”. None of these things are required with a service dog, just a good practice.
There is no certification tests, but there are some guidelines your dog must follow, such as not eating from the floors in public, sniffing or taking things off of shelves, you can be asked to leave a store, if your dog creates a disruption.
[/SIZE]

Just want to reiterate that in allowing my breeder to choose my two puppies for me, based upon her experience with breeding - and knowing what I hoped to use them for - I have had a 100% success rate at obtaining dogs suitable for therapy work. And since these two Newfs were my first Newfs, the first dogs I've owned as an adult, and the very first dogs I've ever attempted to train, I think that says a lot about the benefits of trusting a good breeder's judgement. I did run them through the Volhard test, but that was more for my benefit, in seeing how they reacted to certain stimuli, than a questioning of my breeder's abilities to correctly match a pup with its new owners.

If I'm not mistaken, Leska's Orka, (her service newf), was also selected for her by her breeder.

Nanook passed his Therapy Dogs International certification a month after passing his CGC. (He was 13 months old I believe when he became a certified therapy dog.) Pooka passed his TDI test at 1 year old, the earliest that organization is willing to certify a dog. He could have passed it at 8 months, which is when HE passed his CGC.

If there is no certification process for service dogs, then both of mine could easily work in that capacity - since the guidelines that you listed are things that they have been trained to do for their work as therapy dogs, and have been doing since they were both a year old. In point of fact, the TDI evaluator for Nanook's test not only tested him on food left on the floor, but also attempted to shove hot dogs into his mouth.

(Anyone who knows Nanook knows that those hot dogs should have, by all rights, been a distant memory and a warm spot in his tummy within 5 seconds of her offering them to him. A stern "Leave IT!" and he turned his face away. I've never been so proud of another creature on this planet in my entire life as I was of him in that moment.)

Again, I urge you to research the Volhard puppy aptitude test - and to consider the other advice you've received here - for as it may not have been kindly-enough offered, it WAS kindly meant - and certainly in earnest - attempting to help you achieve your goal.

http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php

 

[Windancer]

by the number of people shown reading, this is a very popular thread. isn't it.....I believe you never know another person till you walk in their moccisons. I am glad to see more get explained about this condition. We all get judged eventually, I believe, by the way we treat others. By our love and kindness. One never knows how their words effect another. I dare say there are a ton of people reading this post who don't DARE make a comment, for fear the pack will pounce. I noticed when she 'said' she was leaving. someone gave her a nice 'screen door in the a__' on the way out....nice of you....I feel guilty for referring her to the forum, and telling her what a great bunch of people you were. We are all passionate about our newfies...but that does not qualify our existance on the planet. OR make us an authority on anything. We all have alot to learn.

 

[wrknnwf]

Thank you Garden Girl for that response. It certainly sheds some light.

I have to say, though, that I don't think anyone needs to apologize for expressing their views or for making assumptions based on the OP's reactive replies or lack of upfront information, because she has a disability.

When someone, anyone, starts name calling, especially when they are new to a group, I don't really care what their disability might be. I have a severely paranoid schizophrenic brother who often used to react in a similar manner (or worse) and I refuse to give him license to abuse anyone just because he is mentally disabled. If he wants respect, he has to, first, be respectful himself. He has to listen and respond appropriately. Doesn't mean he has to always agree, but he does have to act agreeable in his opposition. He is very aware that having a chip on his shoulder is symptomatic of his disability. He also has a strong desire to be accepted and walk in normal society, so has worked hard to correct his bad behavior. It isn't at all easy for him, believe me. But he can and does do it.

I think a number of very good suggestions were made, in this thread, on how to approach breeders. This advice was summarily dismissed and the thread degraded into an event (check the number of views). Too bad for all. I doubt that any of us, myself included, will be better for it.

 

[NessaM]

Deleted - invidious and it added nothing to the conversation. Sorry. Hormones got the better of me for a second.