Puppy forum - family can post - not the breeder?

[Kay]

I just think she might have been talked out of the idea of breeding had folks been kind and not attacking.

Respectfully, what I saw was an OP who attacked those who didn't tell her what she wanted. It read like a temper tantrum. I saw NN posters falling over themselves trying to gingerly offer advice.

I would have been far more direct.

In light of recent threads about cliques, a ganging up mentality, etc. ... I just wanted to call out that this thread didn't seem to be that way at all. There are times to be kind and tip-toe around the issue and times to point out the facts in an direct manner. This fell into the latter camp, IMO.

I don't think that a different approach, or sitting her down with a plate of sugar cookies, would have made her decide not to breed. I believe she has decided to act irresponsibly, or that she knows more than anyone else, and is beyond reason. I form that opinion from what she wrote in multiple posts after very kind suggestions were offered.

 

[Henrys Mom]

I also smell a troll. This person came on here with an attitude and was not attacked but boy did she come out guns a blazing! Hopefully she will just not come back. Almost immediately she talked about the people on this board being mean. What??? This was a very good discussion. She is a troll!

 

[Henrys Mom]

On another note. How do you train a puppy to be a service dog? I thought service dogs were trained by organizations not individuals? If you have a disability that requires a service dog how do you wait the year or more that it requires for a puppy to get mature enough to be a service dog? I know nothing about this and am really just curious.

 

[Dollyboons]

Service dogs can be trained by their owners, or really anyone. There are services that offer service dogs, not so much training, you just get the whole dog, because it may be more difficult for a person with certain disabilities to train their own dog.
In most cases it is better for the owner to train their own dog, so that way the dog knows exactly what the owner needs from it. Service dog training can start at anytime in the dogs life, even an elderly dog can be a useful service animal. Most people wait until after their dog passes the “K9 Good Citizen Test”. None of these things are required with a service dog, just a good practice.
There is no certification tests, but there are some guidelines your dog must follow, such as not eating from the floors in public, sniffing or taking things off of shelves, you can be asked to leave a store, if your dog creates a disruption.
I think your post on people offering me ginger advice is hilarious! Mostly it was just a bunch of people putting words into my mouth…. “she wants to breed and train a whole litter of service dogs!!!” That doesn’t even sound like advice, just a judgment…

 

[pabusinesswoman]

<sigh>

I goto work and all heck broke loose

Since Ms. Dolly has stated she is leaving multiple times but still seems to be here, I am going to try to ask my question again.

1. I understand why you would want to have a newf as a service dog. Cascadians is on here and she has one for her service dog and she loves him to pieces. In fact, most of us on here have come to love her postings and stories about her beloved Orca.

2. What threw up the flags majorly on here was the insistance on full registration. Things went down hill from there. What has me the most curious out of that is if you still want to consider the possibility down the road of breeding another service dog, why would you not want to do the co-ownership? If the bitch.. ie female.. is of breeding quality, then the breeder would be the best one who knows the lines to try to produce what your looking for. Why would you not want that help and advice of years of experience in the breed backing you to produce healty pups... someone that is there to help and guide you if something goes wrong? Just looking at it from my perspective if I was doing a breeding, I would want to give the best possible odds for those pups. This breed has a lot of things that can go wrong. Through input from others, though it is not always what one wants to hear, one can learn a lot if they actually hear the true meaning of what is being said without taking it the wrong way.

Also.. this is the one that really has me scratching my head... If the bitch you have did not work for therapy/ service work, what says another dog/bitch out of those same lines and genes would still produce what your looking for? It may not. Therefore, would that venue truely be the best option for replacement? By not going back to a breeder who has a more diverse genetic pool/ selection than you with a single bitch, wouldn't you increase your probablity for success in a proper replacement if your ultimate goal is a good service dog?

3. I have to say your last post was the most informative post you have made so far... other than the last smart comments posted. I told you at the beginning of the posting.. how you treat others on here will deplict how your treated. You even told off one of the moderators of the forum at the beginning of the post. Some of us would like to hear about the service work itself.... preforably without the smart comments.

 

[newfx's2]

Dollyboons, I'm coming in very late reading this and am sorry you feel slammed here. I don't think that was any of the members intentions. Being married to a vet, I know firsthand all of the complications that go along w/ first time breeders. I understand you having a preferance to certain conformation. I went through that when I wanted an English Lab. What I don't understand, and I'm trying to not be judgemental, is why you have to breed your Newfie to get another therapy dog? If you do get the therapy Newf of your dreams, why not just go back to that breeder and get on the list for another pup out of your Newf's line? You have no guarantee that breeding will produce a good therapy pup. Why breed an entire litter for one pup? You have not guarantee any of the pups will make a good therapy dog. Purchasing a pup from a champion line will not guarantee that pup to be a champion. It's like thinking a young boy will end up a champion football player just because his dad is.

I did want to comment that I thought you were quite rude w/ your "menopausal women" comment. That was uncalled for. We are all ages here, and that just shows your ignorance and immaturity. What really got on my nerves was this:

"in the end if my dog does not make it as a service dog, we will be eating it for dinner! And I like my food to look a certain way."

Joking aside, that was totally uncalled for and totally unexceptable w/ Newfie lovers. I can tolerate alot, but I will not tolerate raw humor such as this and find this totally inexcusable for any dog lover.

 

[ardeagold]

Service dogs can be trained by their owners, or really anyone. There are services that offer service dogs, not so much training, you just get the whole dog, because it may be more difficult for a person with certain disabilities to train their own dog.
In most cases it is better for the owner to train their own dog, so that way the dog knows exactly what the owner needs from it. Service dog training can start at anytime in the dogs life, even an elderly dog can be a useful service animal. Most people wait until after their dog passes the “K9 Good Citizen Test”. None of these things are required with a service dog, just a good practice.
There is no certification tests, but there are some guidelines your dog must follow, such as not eating from the floors in public, sniffing or taking things off of shelves, you can be asked to leave a store, if your dog creates a disruption.
I think your post on people offering me ginger advice is hilarious! Mostly it was just a bunch of people putting words into my mouth…. “she wants to breed and train a whole litter of service dogs!!!” That doesn’t even sound like advice, just a judgment…

OK wait just a minute...go back to the FIRST 19 posts when you were "still here"...before you threatened to leave, because (from your post #20)

This is probably the worst forum I have ever joined, your not helpful, your just here to force your ideas on to others...

Nobody was hostile to you about anything. People were trying to help by giving advice (not force ideas), which you'd either totally ignore, or get snippy about because they weren't saying what you wanted to hear.

And then we got hit with this. Instead of trying to understand what people were trying to explain to you - you toss out a monetary figure, which really doesn't matter a whit to a quality breeder (another line from post #20):

When I'm paying 3000 dollars for a dog, I am allowed to be picky

And here is the SECOND time you insult all of the members who posted (also in post #20):

I have lists of breeders that would love to sell me a dog, FULL registration, but their dog just wasent what I wad looking for..
I think the clique around here is really quite high school at best, and now I am sorry I even joined this website!

And then, things calmed down again...with MORE people trying their darnedest to figure out what, exactly you want, and why there's such a problem finding it.

People tried to explain a breeder's rationale, gave suggestions about how to possibly work it out with a reputable breeder, etc. But that wasn't what you wanted either.

Then in YOUR post #45, Page 5...you got extremely hostile and insulting all over again. Waved bye and all...and even made sure to insult every member who posted here a THIRD time:

I am going to buy a FULL registration dog, and I am going to breed my dog, IF it passes all health temperment and service tests!! Of that you can be sure. I am also going to quit this crappy clique of a website!
So all you Peole that care so much about dogs, will have zero involvement with the future if my pup, way to go!!! You could have at least had some input... You can all keep your crappy little high school group. I will defer questions to more mature people that don't try to force what they believe onto others, only offer truly helpful advice!
Way to go! You ran off 3 new members in less then 24 hours (my husband and daughter were to join as well) maybe net time you can do it faster.
If anyone wants to contact me with useful information, my email address is dollyboons@yahoo.com and I can be reached on Facebook with the same email address.
Wave!!

It took until post #48 for the membership to figure you were gone (since you said you were leaving), and started trying to figure out what the heck was going on and throwing out information, theories, etc. You weren't here anymore, remember? You started the thread, we just kept on with what we got out of it.

And then you came back. And said, along with a lot of other things, that the post about breeding service dogs wasn't advice, just judgment. Well...that was mine, and perhaps I misunderstood your posts, but you're right...it wasn't advice. You weren't here TO advise or get clarification from.

You had told us all off - twice - and said you hated the board and were leaving. You even asked how to delete your account.

People here were trying to explain why you weren't getting the results you wanted. Granted, the process isn't as easy as you thought it would be, but it's the way it is to protect the dogs, and the lines. It wasn't set up that way to personally frustrate or infuriate you.

We've all had to learn that yep, to get that special Newf that we always wanted, we have to pay our dues and build good relationships with quality breeders and members of the "Newf world". It takes most of us years...and to become a good and well respected breeder...decades.

 

[Dollyboons]

I never said I wouldn’t consider a co ownership, again another assumption. *sigh*
I also never said the puppy replacement, would in fact make it as a service dog, as less then 40% of dogs that enter into service training actually make it…. Chances are very high that it wouldn’t.
I don’t really care that you don’t like my humor, it was obviously a joke, and I think most people got it, I don’t think you should lose any sleep over it. Don’t worry I have eaten some weird things in my life, but have never eaten a dog, that I know of.
Yes I said I was leaving and I have a few messages in my private folder that I would like to receive, as they seem to be very kind and caring people, exchanging email addresses and phone numbers. Man you all are nosey, don’t you have families you can annoy?
I have looked at quite a few profiles and I would say the majority of posters are women of menopausal age, so if the shoe fits…
There are quite a few things I also thought were “quite rude”…
Trust me, as you can see here, I NEVER want to have to look for another dog again, your attitudes just enforce my wish to breed my own dog, and then when I find them homes I refuse to act like most of you.

 

[Dollyboons]

OK wait just a minute...go back to the FIRST 16 posts when you were "still here"...before you threatened to leave, because Nobody was hostile to you about anything. People were trying to help by giving advice (not force ideas), which you'd either totally ignore, or get snippy about because they weren't saying what you wanted to hear.

And then we got hit with this. Instead of trying to understand what people were trying to explain to you - you toss out a monetary figure, which really doesn't matter a whit to a quality breeder:

And here is the FIRST time you insult all of the members who posted:

And then, things calmed down again...with MORE people trying their darnedest to figure out what, exactly you want, and why there's such a problem finding it.

People tried to explain a breeder's rationale, gave suggestions about how to possibly work it out with a reputable breeder, etc. But that wasn't what you wanted either.

Then in YOUR post #45, Page 5...you got extremely hostile and insulting all over again. Waved bye and all...and even made sure to insult every member who posted here a SECOND time:

It took until post #48 for the membership to figure you were gone (since you said you were leaving), and started trying to figure out what the heck was going on and throwing out information, theories, etc. You weren't here anymore, remember? You started the thread, we just kept on with what we got out of it.

And then you came back. And said, along with a lot of other things, that the post about breeding service dogs wasn't advice, just judgment. Well...that was mine, and perhaps I misunderstood your posts, but you're right...it wasn't advice. You weren't here TO advise or get clarification from.

You had told us all off - twice - and said you hated the board and were leaving. You even asked how to delete your account.

People here were trying to explain why you weren't getting the results you wanted. Granted, the process isn't as easy as you thought it would be, but it's the way it is to protect the dogs, and the lines. It wasn't set up that way to personally frustrate or infuriate you.

We've all had to learn that yep, to get that special Newf that we always wanted, we have to pay our dues and build good relationships with quality breeders and members of the "Newf world". It takes most of us years...and to become a good and well respected breeder...decades.

If you will note I NEVER asked for advice about buying a dog... your just trying to shove it down my throat! What results do you think I wanted? I have deposits in at 2 breeders, full registrations, I dont need help finding a dog... I just wondered if there was a forum for people to post what type of dog they were looking for so breeders could repond... hey I have a dog like that, let me to talk to that family... easy peasy!

 

[ardeagold]

If you will note I NEVER asked for advice about buying a dog... your just trying to shove it down my throat! What results do you think I wanted? I have deposits in at 2 breeders, full registrations, I dont need help finding a dog... I just wondered if there was a forum for people to post what type of dog they were looking for so breeders could repond... hey I have a dog like that, let me to talk to that family... easy peasy!

OK...easy answer. NO and thanks for visiting!:wave:

 

[newfx's2]

I don’t really care that you don’t like my humor, it was obviously a joke, and I think most people got it, I don’t think you should lose any sleep over it. Don’t worry I have eaten some weird things in my life, but have never eaten a dog, that I know of.
There are quite a few things I also thought were “quite rude”…
Trust me, as you can see here, I NEVER want to have to look for another dog again, your attitudes just enforce my wish to breed my own dog, and then when I find them homes I refuse to act like most of you.

You didn't directely respond to me, but your remarks imply you read my post. Your humor wasn't taken as a joke!!!! Most people don't get it and wouldn't even joke about eating their dog for dinner. Your reason for wanting to breed is why we are seeing so many Newfies on the rescue list. Who in their right mind would buy a puppy from you? Are you breeding to improve the breed or to just add to the population of those in rescue?

 

[Angela]

Is there a forum anyone knows of where you (the buyer) can post what you are looking for in a puppy, then breeders can contact you?
If not, there should be!
I have contacted tons of breeders, it would be nice if they could contact me if they had what I was looking for...

Actually, probably we should have answered this question of yours with a No, there isn't a forum like that. That's it.

 

[pabusinesswoman]

Dolly,

If you choose to start a friendly post on background on service work, I would love to peruse that post.

Good luck with your pup. I hope she turns out to be all you hoped for in a Newf. and is a good service dog for your needs.

 

[sendchocolate]

In my experience, a good breeder does NOT have to sell their pups. There is no way that they would answer ads on a forum such as you speak of, because they wouldn't have to. And the caliber of breeders that would answer ads there, well, I don't think you would want to buy a dog from them! Good breeders sell their pups through word-of-mouth, and by getting to know the prospective puppy families.

Honestly, starting with the NCA list is where to start, but then check references, google and check out the breeder. There are some GREAT stickys here that show some good questions to ask a breeder you are considering. And they will ask you questions, as well. If they didn't, would you really want a pup from them?

Just remember, that just because the breeder has a slick website does NOT mean the breeder is reputable. It doesn't take much to put together a website, but it takes a lot to breed amazing dogs. My breeder didn't even HAVE a website, but she breeds a great line, albeit small.

I wish you luck with your service dog training. Have you seen the YouTube series of the woman who has anxiety, agoraphobia and has a wonderful newf service dog? Definitely worth watching! I have two children with autism, and I don't fit in a box, am not a "mean girl", either. Though I am not menopausal, I am peri-menopausal, a bit early. I still have one under 10! She has autism and I had hoped we could train Poppy to help her calm down. We don't know if she will be suited for it...we are hoping. As of now, she is a bit too squirrelly.

If you let them, the experience on this forum can be a great help. There are some really knowledgable women and men posting here, who have been involved in the breed for decades. If you can drop your defenses, you might find you actually like them, as well. They are also very forgiving, because they are all about the dog, first and foremost.
And did you mention you have a deposit on TWO different pups? Are you taking them both? Man, that's a lot of pup at one time! :roflmao:

 

[Dollyboons]

No I'm not taking them both, I have my deposit on a litter due ... Any day now, there may be a suitable female landseer, but then again there may not. I really don't want a male... So if that deposit doesn't work out, there is a breeding taking place next month, bit again, may not result in a suitable female landseer. Of course I can keep my deposits on file with either breeder, if I choose, or they will refund my deposits, and I can place them on new hopefuls.

 

[ardeagold]

I just have a quick question, and perhaps you'll think it's snide, but it's not meant to be.

In checking the health of the parents of the litters, are you actually going to OFA and looking up the parents, or just taking the breeder's word for it?

And if a parent is rated "fair" on any of the tests, how would you view that? (Of course there is no fair for cystinuria, elbows, patellas, thyroid, CERF, or heart).

I'm asking because you did state you're looking for a dog with all clearances, and was just wondering how you're going about that, and what you're finding out, overall.

 

[Dollyboons]

So basically your just checking to make sure I know what I'm doing? So that if I don't, we can start this whole drama over from te beginning? Good idea!!
Yes I do check the OFA website database, the breeders made it very easy for me to do that. Obviously with longevity in mind I look for at least a (good) rating.
Fair is obviously not desirable, but I would research offspring from the paring.

 

[ardeagold]

So basically your just checking to make sure I know what I'm doing? So that if I don't, we can start this whole drama over from te beginning? Good idea!!
Yes I do check the OFA website database, the breeders made it very easy for me to do that. Obviously with longevity in mind I look for at least a (good) rating.
Fair is obviously not desirable, but I would research offspring from the paring.

Wrong. You got immediately hostile again, and assumed i was checking on you. Not the case at all.

I was asking because many breeders don't inform their buyers, and many others don't post results, even if they have them, and of course there are those that have some, but not all, etc.

Each person is different when it comes to what's acceptable, and what's not. I
was just wondering how successful you've been finding that all clearances have been done and are posted. There have been a great number of debates on this, with many different philosophies. I was just curious what yours is.

 

[Dollyboons]

Gee I wonder why I might be hostile...

 

[ardeagold]

Nevermind. Not worth the effort.