Puppy forum - family can post - not the breeder?

[lotus]

Well this is a bit off subject but, with all my years in newfs, showing, obedience, SAR and breeding an occasional litter, i just cannot bring myself to call my girls Bitch. The are my Girls, Or a Female! Is that weird or what? Maybe becouse i had to watch what i said with my grooming boarding bizz i had! LOL!

I am a newbie so i have no rights here, but I'm with you on that.... I NEVER say bitch unless I'm referring to myself or Krystal Carrington calling out Alexis...ok ok I just dated myself lol lol
To me word is soooo outdated.
When I kept hearing the term at my first show, i kept tunring around wondering if I was at a rap concert. ;-)

 

[Windancer]

very nice, Louann...I thought we would get around to that..I guess you have a list of instances where I have indescriminentely sold on open registration ? Limited registration has been my soap box for years. I just TALKED to the woman who wanted help with a service dog..an interest fo mine.. She has a deposit with another breeder. One who for some reason you choose to dislike. Along with me. I never did anything to you that I know of. Just because you breed wonderful dogs does not give you the right to be the end in all about all things, and does not make you honest. I don't want to make this into an arguement. I just wanted everyone to know what the lady said to me and a little more about her. so now....sickum'

 

[Windancer]

oh and Donna you would be suprised at the breeder who PRICED her pup at three thousand, and the lines she has....

 

[R Taft]

I have a little input in here....Not the Breeding side.

I now spend a lot of time at my Training Course training Service/Assistance dogs. It takes a lot of time and very careful dog selection. And making breed limitation is just not the way to go. you pick the dog for character, personality and health. And you have to wait till the dog is 12-18 month old to really start training.
We pick our dogs from a lot of rescue places. Some Rescue places have become very experienced at "spotting" a dog suitable for this training.
And it takes about six months of solid training to get a start and then it goes on to training with the new owner. The charities that assist, value the dogs at around $20,000- $40,000. These dogs are not sold, but gifted to the selected owners. We the Trainers are however paid. An hourly wage and all the vet costs etc are all paid.
The dogs we train can do lots of different things for different people. Some are for deaf people and some for physically disabled. We do not train Guide dogs for the blind, but we do get some of their "failure" to work with and find a different place for. And we do spend a lot of time with their Trainers

In Australia, you cannot "sell" Service/Assistance dogs per say. They are supported by different charities. Most get trained at large facilities

If there was a market, I could sell Tessa :lol: She can do a lot of Service dog work, because she is the one I "practiced" on. And Katy is getting there. But on a suitability type of dog, the ordinary labrador and golden retrievers are still winners

On a different line all together. there is another reason we pick certain breeds to train. Some Breeds to not "hand-over" well. they are great if trained from puppy with the person. Newf's and GSD's would come under this banner. Labradors, Golden's and say some of the small terriers, do not get stressed too much when handed over. They happily change owners and do not get stressed. One of the reasons why Labradors are considered the best Guide dogs for the Blind in Australia. They spend the first year with puppy walkers, change to the Guide dog training facility and after qualifying go to the new Blind owner. Some Breeds do not cope with this Ronnie

 

[lotus]

[
Sounds like she's starting a business folks. Has anyone checked into what a fully trained service dog sells for, through an organization? Granted there are dogs DONATED to those in need, but somebody pays for the years of intense training and work to turn a dog into a service dog. Much less a whole LITTER of them. They're extremely expensive dogs...and rightly so.


Before I discovered the Newfoundland, i was checking into a service dog for my son......they can go up to 10,000....depending on what you need the dog to do. some organizations even require you to fundraise some portion. You can't just "buy" one. An autism dog was "starting" at about 3500..depending on where on the spectrum the individual with autism was. Also didn't include traveling to the training facility when needed to be train with your dog.

 

[newflizzie]

I have friends who are puppy raisers for a service dog organization- they have the pups until around 15 months and do the basics - then they are sent to trainers for serious training for whatever service they will provide for up to 2 years. They've told me that their average service dogs "cost" around $25-30K to train (though gifted to the recipient).

I've been in rescue for a long time and immediately her posts were screaming red flag to me...

 

[sarnewfie]

I sold a puppy to a young man in a wheel chair, he was injured playing hockey. He had a caretaker with him all the time. His mother helped him also. I talked to everyone in his family to make sure they all were up to the responsibility. It ended up she was a great dog for this young man. He told me she even turned the light switch on and off for him that was on the wall. It is done with very careful cautious interviewing, and introducing the family to these dogs. Getting to know all of them to be sure that someone would always be there to care for the dog no matter what.
People who want to get a service dog should expect to go through a long interview process not only becouse breeders are carefully selective of where they dogs go, the owner to be needs to be aware of the grooming, the care, the excersise, the diet and help will always be there if that owner cannot care for that dog due to a "down day"

 

[Sun Valley]

She has a deposit with another breeder. One who for some reason you choose to dislike/QUOTE]

DISLIKE???? I usually do dislike people who forge my name on AKC papers and do not honor contracts.

I only asked if you were selling her a puppy on full registration? She mentioned she was talking to you and you are defending someone who lied to other breeder's.

Curious minds want to know.

LA

 

[Ginny]

On the bright side, at least she outed herself here. Her full name needs to be circulated.

 

[Windancer]

I think my former post answered your question Louann....I just didn't see it as Lying, unless you think she was going to take a dog on limited and breed it...which she said she was not...I just assumed she did not mention her interest in breeding since there were no puppies available. I don't know this person except for one conversation by phone.....so I don't know what her objective was...

 

[sendchocolate]

Reading this late, but agree about the red flags. NOT saying she was a puppy miller/BYB, but if she was, I would expect less than honesty. THOUGH if she was BYB, I would think there would be umpteen places online she could purchase from. From what I understand, Internet sales is NOT regulated by the USDA, anyone at anytime can sell dogs online. There is money in it, and those "breeders" are chomping at the bit to sell their "stock" to the highest bidder. You have to be discerning!

I did not think anyone here was out of line in posting to her...but then I am a were-newf from a high school clique, apparently if I agree with you! :!rolling:

 

[wrknnwf]

Donna - the thing that rings false to me is that she appears far more concerned about the appearance, head and body, of the bitch than she does about temperament, which is completely INSANE from an "I need a service dog" perspective. It makes sense if she's looking for a dog for her daughter to show-handle, as she also mentioned - but in terms of looking for a service dog - appearance should be the LAST thing she ought to be concerned with - first being temperament and second being health.

The qualifications she listed, especially the necessity for the sire and dam of her future puppy to have all their health clearances and be AKC registered are normal, of course, but something in the way she phrased it made it sound, to me, as though she was already mentally cataloging her future litter's selling points.

You and I are on the same page, Nessa. Those were exactly my thoughts. I am sorry if she really is a good person and is simply unfortunate in the way she presents things...piecemeal and emphasis on looks over temperament.

But, I would have excused her had she not gotten so completely defensive right off the bat. I thought some very good and non-judgmental advice was given, which she seem to take every offense at.

There have been a number of times that new people have joined, asked about getting a dog on full registration, and have been presented with the very same advice. Some have gone on to "explain" themselves...the research they've done, what level of experience they have, etc., making themselves much more credible. This girl chose to accuse EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD of high school mentality simply for offering a difference of opinion.

I WILL GET A DOG AND BREED IT...(with a tone of "just to spite you") doesn't endear you to anyone who is trying to give you advice. I feel bad for any seller, BYB or otherwise, who might try to steer this girl in any direction she doesn't intend to go.

 

[Dollyboons]

This topic is really quite insane! Really, a bunch of menopausal women behaving in such a way is just laughable!*
You have taken my words and intentions and twisted them to be something utterly sinister.*
First off ( assuming you each have at least SOME reading comprehension training ).
1) I did contact lue ann - I never asked her about puppies, I ONLY asked her about a breeder she has listed on her website, I have both her and my emails. Her response was "buyer beware when dealing with this kennel". I was in no way dishonest with her, as I was only requesting information on ANOTHER breeder, not her!*
2) if I was SO dishonest why would I post exactly what I was looking for here in a public forum??? I must not be a very smart liar!*
3) if I want my service dog to be pea green with yellow polkadots, it's my dog, I'm buying it, so that is my choice. I have NEVER said I would like a black only a landseer or Irish spotted! This is just another example of you twisting my words!
4) I never said I was going to train a whole litter of puppies as service dogs... Never even implied it. If you look at my post, assuming you can in fact read, it says quite clearly, I will be breeding my dog and keeping just ONE pup from that litter, and assuming there is more then one puppy after I pick mine, the others i will need to find homes for.
5) yes I have a 9 year old Akita, he came with FULL registration papers :O and I had him fixed when he was between 8 and 10 months! I also have a FULL registration yorkie, who is 5 years old she is not spayed, and has never been bred!! Shocking I know! *
6) ok you've got me you figured out my real name, and that I have posted about things like child welfare, bad service, and some online games... Guilty!*
For anyone interested here are things you can't learn about me on the Internet. Reznicsek is a Hungarian name, my grandpa Abraham came over from hungry on a boat. He started a meat plant and did very well. He is now 97 years old, and loves graham crackers and grape juice. My parents adopted me, my sister (a little Indian girl), and my brother. I grew up in a small Indian village in Suriname (where my parents were missionaries with MAF) called lowa. Where I lived with my black and white dog named fritzy, who flew with me all over the world! I have owned many dogs in my life, some horses, rabbits, cats, birds, even a black squirrel, that a little Indian boy gave to me, sadly my cat ate the squirrel. *
I have been agoraphobic since I was 16 years old, mild at first, but still there. I have tried everything to get better! None of the stress from this forum helps anything. Thanks !!! I sure appreciate. You each for that!!*
My doctor, vet, church, trainer, neighbors, and family are in FULL support of my getting a service dog. They have given me letters of support, puppy gifts, and money! My kids are very excited about mom getting better, as we have two cabins at the coast, pacific city if you need to research it, that we arnt able to use. They would love to go with mom to the beach, or even just to lunch!
7) when shopping for an 8 week old puppy, temperament is difficult to determine, so all I *have left are looks! So yes these are the looks I prefer, in the end if my dog does not make it as a service dog, we will be eating it for dinner! And I like my food to look a certain way...*
8) I research every puppy I consider, because I don't care to spread genetic problems. I have rejected several puppies due to what I felt were genetic problems. I have researched breeders from here to France. And in my opinion the quality of the dogs over seas cannot be beat!
I fully expect all of you to twist my words and try to make me sound like a menace to the breed, but all it has really shown me is that newf.net is filled with some terribly bitter people, you all could learn a thing or two from your dogs, I have never met a newf that judged people like you all have.*
Ps: my mother says posting to you is a huge waste of time and I think she is right!!*
I would like to thank windancer for her support, she is truly as kind as I thought she was, and just to clear it up she is NOT selling me a dog, just a helpful breeder!*
If anyone can tell me how to cancel this account that would be most helpful!!

 

[nowhavethreebears]

Edited cause it really didn't help matters at all.....

 

[Jeannie]

There is no way to cancel your account. If a person does not post in a while the account will be made inactive.

All this fussing and bickering needs to stop. Please cool it a bit or I'm locking this thread.

 

[nowhavethreebears]

Thank you, Jeannie

 

[R Taft]

Again I will not get involved with the breeding, but I can now understand why she would like a newfie as a Service dog.....being that it is for agoraphobia. Detailed training is not required, good obedience will do and the dog just has to give her confidence. I can now see why some of the requests fit....... To give her confidence and size does matter. Part of this makes more sense to me now. If in the same situation I would probably also prefer one of the giant breeds.

 

[suse]

Seriously ......I smell a troll. I think she knows Strawberry Fields. Dollyboons, your attitude is ridiculous. Why do you need to cancel, just don't come back.

 

[sarnewfie]

Well expectations of perfection in genetics is not realistic. Neither are expectations of a perfect color. Sorry but when placeing puppies, personality is matched with the personality of the person. Colors are not unless it happens a color close to but not perfectly matched: is a good match for that person. That is how it is.

 

[NessaM]

7) when shopping for an 8 week old puppy, temperament is difficult to determine, so all I *have left are looks! So yes these are the looks I prefer, in the end if my dog does not make it as a service dog, we will be eating it for dinner! And I like my food to look a certain way...*

Well, as it happens this isn't true. (I'm referring to the idea that at 8 weeks old temperament is difficult to determine, but I suspect the bit about you eating your dog isn't true either.)

Both of my newfs are certified therapy dogs. We work primarily with children in public schools and public libraries - mostly with special needs and autistic children. The breeder that I got my puppies from evaluated each litter, and chose one for me based on her experience with the breed - knowing what I wished to do with them on a volunteer basis. I reiterate - the breeder was the very best person to tell me which of the puppies she had in each litter she thought was temperamentally most sound for therapy work. She knows her newfs, she knows her litters, and she is able, through long experience, to tell which puppies are dominant, which are submissive, which are very confident and which are more meek. She's with them on a daily basis. She knows what's up. I was given the option of those puppies that she thought would do well in a therapy setting - color did not come into play. Neither did body type.

When I came to visit the pups she had in mind for me, I checked their aptitude for therapy work by running them through the Volhard puppy aptitude tests. Have you heard of the Volhards? I think you might find their testing criteria helpful in your search for a service dog.

http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php

Here's my Pooka at 18 months old or so at his very first therapy visit:

Happy to be touched by so many enthusiastic hands!

pee ess: at 31 years old and 6 months pregnant - I assure you - I possess a fully functional uterus and endocrine system. No menopause here.

pee pee ess: Horrifyingly, having looked up the glandular aspects of pregnancy just now, (just to make sure I'm not menopausal), I've discovered that my pregnant uterus is making hormones called Prolactin and Relaxin. And for some reason, all I can think about is the theme song from "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air"- "Chillin' out, Prolactin - Relaxin all cool and shooting some b-ball outside of the school..."