hemingway
New member
she knows.
need your opinion.
- Thread starter hemingway
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hemingway
New member
should buyers and breeders really settle for this "truth?" maybe it's time to rethink the way the newfoundland is bred if this is the case.
victoria1140
Active member
did she come back with any suggestions or questions??
victoria1140
Active member
shame I would have at least hoped for emotional support at the very least
best wishs
best wishs
KatieB
New member
I do think buyers and breeders need to settle for that truth. And I have a breed of dog much less healthy than the Newf Breed (Bernese Mtn Dog). I think it comes with the territory and that's the responsibility of being an educated buyer. While I think it's nice when the breeder does offer a refund in these cases I don't think it's required or owed.
Our Berner was diagnosed with shoulder OCD, Elbow Dysplasia and Hip Dysplasia at 6 months old. We too fed the diet required (raw), did the proper exercising etc. He needed surgery for the shoulders and we chose not to do anything about the elbows or hips and to let him grow out and keep him well muscled. Our breeder had spoken to us extensively about insurance and I remember coming home from the surgeons and looking at the insurance brochures on the counter that she had given us in his puppy packet and then kicking myself!!
She had told us about all the issues that can happen, had told us to get insurance and we had not. While I was upset that our boy had so many issues it certainly wasn't her fault and I never asked for or expected a refund of any money from her. We went ahead with his surgeries and updated her at which point she said "Please send me the bills and I will send you a check." I was stunned. While I greatly admire what she did I still wouldn't expect it from her again nor would I ask for a refund. She has now told me that she made copies of those surgery bills and she gives them to her new puppy owners along with the insurance brochures to make even more of a case.
While I'm bummed for you and for Hemi I really don't think you're ever owed money, however, breeders who get to know their owners and stand behind their dogs often do what they feel is right. So it's a tough line to walk and tough to say what's right and what's owed.
I will say that we promptly got insurance on our next two puppies and while they've been extremely healthy, if they hadn't been we were prepared. And the only reason we weren't prepared the first time around is because we didn't listen to our breeder fully when she tried to tell us the breed was a health mess. We were so excited about our new perfect puppy and felt the insurance etc. could wait. So that was our own fault and at that point he was OUR puppy and OUR responsibility, financially and otherwise. I have a wonderful relationship with our Berner's breeder to this day and had she not paid me a dime that wouldn't have changed because I truly don't feel she owed us anything.
Our Berner was diagnosed with shoulder OCD, Elbow Dysplasia and Hip Dysplasia at 6 months old. We too fed the diet required (raw), did the proper exercising etc. He needed surgery for the shoulders and we chose not to do anything about the elbows or hips and to let him grow out and keep him well muscled. Our breeder had spoken to us extensively about insurance and I remember coming home from the surgeons and looking at the insurance brochures on the counter that she had given us in his puppy packet and then kicking myself!!
She had told us about all the issues that can happen, had told us to get insurance and we had not. While I was upset that our boy had so many issues it certainly wasn't her fault and I never asked for or expected a refund of any money from her. We went ahead with his surgeries and updated her at which point she said "Please send me the bills and I will send you a check." I was stunned. While I greatly admire what she did I still wouldn't expect it from her again nor would I ask for a refund. She has now told me that she made copies of those surgery bills and she gives them to her new puppy owners along with the insurance brochures to make even more of a case.
While I'm bummed for you and for Hemi I really don't think you're ever owed money, however, breeders who get to know their owners and stand behind their dogs often do what they feel is right. So it's a tough line to walk and tough to say what's right and what's owed.
I will say that we promptly got insurance on our next two puppies and while they've been extremely healthy, if they hadn't been we were prepared. And the only reason we weren't prepared the first time around is because we didn't listen to our breeder fully when she tried to tell us the breed was a health mess. We were so excited about our new perfect puppy and felt the insurance etc. could wait. So that was our own fault and at that point he was OUR puppy and OUR responsibility, financially and otherwise. I have a wonderful relationship with our Berner's breeder to this day and had she not paid me a dime that wouldn't have changed because I truly don't feel she owed us anything.
hemingway
New member
I agree that based on the contract, she doesn't owe me anything. It's more a question of what would you do if you were the breeder, regardless of what your contract says? I know contracts are there to protect the breeder and the buyer. But you're right, KatieB, it is not always so cut and dry depending on the circumstances and the breeder.
DAWNMERIE
Active member
I've been looking for a way to say what I think on this and Katie, thank you....you said it.
This.
BlackLightning
New member
I was wondering this too - Boum has bilateral HD - worse on one side than the other - but we only know this because he was x-rayed. He has no symptoms at 4 years old.
ardeagold
New member
I believe this has been asked before but I don't recall seeing an answer. Has he been to a specialist and gotten a specific diagnosis and treatment plan?
Many breeders want to see that information before doing anything. And I don't blame them. There are people out there who don't listen to the breeder's advice (I'm not inferring that's what happened in your case Stacey), and expect the breeder to reimburse because they got a "faulty" dog....since their Vet said so.
There are so many variables with all of this that it's very hard to make an assessment or a judgement for either "side".
I feel that when you buy a puppy, you just have to take it as it comes, and do what's best for your dog without any expectation of help other than what was stated in the contract. If the breeder wants to help in any way, that's just a bonus.
Many breeders want to see that information before doing anything. And I don't blame them. There are people out there who don't listen to the breeder's advice (I'm not inferring that's what happened in your case Stacey), and expect the breeder to reimburse because they got a "faulty" dog....since their Vet said so.
There are so many variables with all of this that it's very hard to make an assessment or a judgement for either "side".
I feel that when you buy a puppy, you just have to take it as it comes, and do what's best for your dog without any expectation of help other than what was stated in the contract. If the breeder wants to help in any way, that's just a bonus.
hemingway
New member
no lameness in the back...had the xray done b/c of a knocking sound we could feel and hear in the back end. Sometimes he is a bit awkward back there...and doesn't move completely normal. but is nice and strong and doesn't have a pronounced limp.
Thanks, everyone...I knew I'd get mixed thoughts and feelings and, this being my first Newf, I value them all!!!!
Thanks, everyone...I knew I'd get mixed thoughts and feelings and, this being my first Newf, I value them all!!!!
hemingway
New member
His xrays were performed and evaluated by a vet who has owned Newfoundlands and knows them well, though she is not an orthopedic specialist. My breeder has had Hemingway's xrays looked at by a hip expert in Ohio, and he said the xray wasn't the best angle for making an evaluation. And based on that he considers them mildly dysplastic. So maybe there is some hope there.
Again, thanks for all of your thoughts!! I'm going to move forward from here and do the best I can for Hemi.
ElvisTheNewf
Active member
Ohio has a hip expert?!? Whoohooo!! Does it happen to be Dr. Dyce from Ohio State? That's who everyone recommends for Elvis' knee if he needs it.
new_2_newf
New member
Stacey,
My gut says no, you are not specifically entitled to anything but kindness and support. I would consider any monetary reimbursement a very generous and kind gesture of support and concern from your breeder.
I've spent some time over the last year working with dogs that have come back to a breeder I know fairly well. They've come back for a variety of reasons, but it's opened up the door to some very frank conversations about stuff like this. She often gives back *something*, but it's on a case by case basis. Part of it has to do with the situation with the dog, part of it has to do with the approach of the buyer, and part of it has to do with the fiscal resources available at the time of the issue....I wouldn't think that most breeders have several grand they can just toss to someone with a problem (perhaps I'm wrong there)...they might need to wait for another litter (perhaps not due for another 6 months). There are always other factors that play into her decision making process.
Anyhow, those are just my feelings. Don't expect anything, and be very gracious if you end up with anything. Hugs and Kisses to Hemi
My gut says no, you are not specifically entitled to anything but kindness and support. I would consider any monetary reimbursement a very generous and kind gesture of support and concern from your breeder.
I've spent some time over the last year working with dogs that have come back to a breeder I know fairly well. They've come back for a variety of reasons, but it's opened up the door to some very frank conversations about stuff like this. She often gives back *something*, but it's on a case by case basis. Part of it has to do with the situation with the dog, part of it has to do with the approach of the buyer, and part of it has to do with the fiscal resources available at the time of the issue....I wouldn't think that most breeders have several grand they can just toss to someone with a problem (perhaps I'm wrong there)...they might need to wait for another litter (perhaps not due for another 6 months). There are always other factors that play into her decision making process.
Anyhow, those are just my feelings. Don't expect anything, and be very gracious if you end up with anything. Hugs and Kisses to Hemi
Pipelineozzy
New member
Really, with a diagnosis of mild hips, ...what would be the reasoning behind guaranteeing? The dog is neutered (so there is no loss of income from breeding etc.). He's not requiring any treatment..so no expense incurred there. IF he's kept muscled and well cared for, he will likely NOT be symptomatic. If a dog is within the guarantee time and has an issue that is going to mean they will NOT be able to function as a normal dog, or fulfill their purpose (in this case..to be a pet...) it's a different kettle of fish. I think there is a very good chance that he will be just fine Stacey
YorkvilleNewfie
New member
It's Dr. Lonnie Davis....
Milliejb
New member
This is obviously a tough call. According to the legalities of the contract I suppose you are not entitled to money back, but I guess the reason I will forever be struggling with money, is as a someone who always wants to help, I think I would offer something back. I understand it its their business and they wouldn't be able to do it for everyone but I think each situation is different. I also think emotional support goes a long way and as I have already told you all, I got none of that. All I got was blame. That somehow I caused two torn cruciates in my puppy.
Regardless , I wish you both nothing but the best and hope it all works out for you... Hugs to Hemi...
Oh, and just thought I would add, to those who said they could kick themselves for not having insurance, I have insurance, have since day one, but because Mille has not even been with me a year, cruciate injuries are not covered until after you have insurance for a year. In other words, I got nothing back! UGH!! I have paid more for having insurance than I have received back from it.
Regardless , I wish you both nothing but the best and hope it all works out for you... Hugs to Hemi...
Oh, and just thought I would add, to those who said they could kick themselves for not having insurance, I have insurance, have since day one, but because Mille has not even been with me a year, cruciate injuries are not covered until after you have insurance for a year. In other words, I got nothing back! UGH!! I have paid more for having insurance than I have received back from it.
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