marking and neutering. your experience?

hemingway

New member
It's one of those "normals" for dogs, Popcorn. IF you don't allow the unacceptable parts, it's not an issue...and they LOVE to be able to get out and about and do those "important" jobs lol. My girls actually only peemail when they are getting close to cycling..in their case, it's a calling card to let the males know what's going on.
It also gives me a clue who is getting ready to cycle...which is nice.
I don't allow the unacceptable parts. and he still has a tendency to do it. no one sits there and lets their dog pee on people/dogs/valuables, wondering, hmm...why the heck is he doing that? they get up and correct him/her. It's not all black and white, cut and dry. It's a learning process that takes time. They don't know what's acceptable and what's not until you teach them, and even then it takes repetition and reminding until they "get it." they might be DOGS but they live in our homes and among humans, so there are certain DOG behaviors that are considered socially unacceptable and need to be redirected. That's where we come in. And that's, in part, why this forum exists....so we can come to each other and try to LEARN about our dogs and the best way to help them be the best that they can be. You know, until Cindy "peed" all over this thread I felt like this was a place we could all come for support, understanding, and insight (taking the occasional criticisms and judgemental comments with a grain of salt) but now I'm not sure I feel comfortable sharing my thoughts or frustrations or joys here. I'm certainly not the only one who has felt that way. It's just sad. I take some very dear friends away from this. And thank those of you who've tried to offer a shoulder, an ear, etc when I've needed it over the last year. Lord knows I needed it. It's been a bit of a bumpy road with Hemingway and his elbow dysplasia, surgery...his dominant personality....etc, but he is my heart and soul and those of you who know me know that to be true. Taking a hiatus for now. Peace. :bear:
 
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Pipelineozzy

New member
Out of a five page thread, you've taken nothing except that you didn't like what I said to you? Now, maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake, but besides the fact that you chose to send me not one but FIVE vitriolic pm's, you have basically spent two days on this thread trying to bait me, trying to start a scrap with me, etc. Up till now, I've ignored all of it and carried on like an adult. I've maintained decorum and avoided confrontation with you but- sorry Stacey, I think big girl panties might be in order. If anyone has "pissed" on this thread it's been you with your inability to move on.
 

Ivoryudx

New member
Stacey? You are taking everything personal that its targeted at YOU. Just because you started a thread does not mean every response it directed at you, so its time to relax a little. Threads evolve and don't always stay on what the original post was.

I don't think what Cindy is saying is anything to get so upset about, she did not name you and your boy but you your comments keep target practicing. Actually what the two of you have posted, when boiled down, is pretty much the same just worded differently.

Everyone is free to take away what they want from any post and people are going to post their opinions from their own experiences and training, when a subject comes up. If you don't want someones opinion, then don't post the question. JMHO
 

Cascadians

New member
Relax, it's the Internet, rife with flame wars and all kinds of sparring. I try to learn from every post -- if somebody is passionate enough to bother typing, they have a reason. There's an infinite # of points of view.

I have been attacked on the Net for years, but not nearly as much as the everyday I see on forums (not this one -- Newf Net is extraordinarily mild). My attitude is there's something that set someone off, and I try to see where they're coming from. I may not agree but everything makes me think. Everybody's life experience is different. Facebook -- go at your own risk, much nastier cattier witchier than Newf Net. But everybody gets triggered by different things. Very educational reading it all.

If you sit back and watch as you read you'll see that 90% of all flaming tirades are the result of incomplete reading comprehension and the other 10% emotional blasts triggered by something not directly apparent to the subject at hand.

Onward and upward. Thank goodness it's just cyberspace. Sniff a flower, pee in the toilet and thank the Lord for plumbing and email -- way easier than peemail.
 

chumleysma

New member
I think there were hurt feelings from both sides. You know, the most painful thing would be for one to contact the other with a heartfelt "i'm sorry." Maybe not for what was said, but for the fact it happened. I did this once and it humbled me in front of the person, then I cried because they accepted my apology. That's really the only time I remember apologizing, at least that stuck in my memory, because it was so difficult. On the flip side, the problem vanished with no hard feelings. Just thought I'd stick my nose in, since I don't want either of you to disappear from NN. It takes a village to raise Newfs properly.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
Well I certainly can't speak for Stacey, but I don't intend to leave because I don't like what someone posted :) I don't come on here very often - but there are some people that I genuinely really like here so I drop in now and then to quick read on anyone I don't run into in other places :)
 

Popcorn

New member
Tricia- in terms of the feral bitch:

We had the same issue with our rescue girl newfie who was actually feral. No sense of indoors vs. outdoors because she was raised in a puppy mill / outdoors.

You are looking at the problem from the right angle -- marking a new environment is simply very, very primitive and proper behavior. Our girl *had* to mark every room in the house. It took her a few months to do it, but she would mark right in the middle of each room. Once it was marked, that was it for that room, and in a week or so she would "claim" the next room.

She also had a problem with my husband (had been abused by a man) so ~ when I left our bed, and it was just my husband in the bed, she began to mark right in the middle of it as a statement. It was her form of communication based on a terrible past and the primitive mode of marking.

In terms of housebreaking, my girl was not dominant and alpha rolls were not in order. I simply walked her on leash in the yard and praised her every little pee she made. Also, if I found her peeing indoors, I would (w/o anger) take her right outside in mid pee. I think it took a few weeks, but she got the message.

In terms of the marking -- that had to get out of her system. If I found her marking I would interrupt her. Just loudly interrupting her (not punishing her) and moving her away from what she was marking. But she had to mark each room once, and then she was done.

In terms of marking my husband's bed -- we actually had to get rid of that bed (it was an old futon on the floor), purchase a higher one (she didn't tend to jump up on furniture) and I slept in it marking it as mine for several weeks. She had no problems w/me and didn't need to pee on it. Ultimately, because of my husband's persistence, she worked out her issues with him and all men, and the bed marking never happened again.

I hope this helps. You can do it -- it can take a few weeks/months, but it will get solved. Or it least it did with my newfie gal. I don't know what breed you have -- smaller dogs are harder to break of inside marking, not sure why.
 

Tricia2

New member
Thank you, Popcorn. Deana is a Sato (Puerto Rican feral dog) that I fostered 3 years ago. She is a Golden/GSD mix and 75 lbs. She was born in a ditch on the side of the road near Ponce, P.R. Her pregnant mother was struck by a car, a passerby saw the accident and witnessed the mother deliver a litter of 9 pups. Only 2 survived, Deana and her sister Tina. An elderly man took them home and bottle fed them, hoping to raise them to guard his chickens. Unfortunately he had no idea how to socialize orphaned pups, so they grew up without the nurture of a Momma dog to teach them "dog stuff' (bite inhibition, respect for other dogs and humans, boundaries, etc.)

Long story short, at 9 months they were terrorizing him and killing his chickens. Luckily, his neighbor was a volunteer for Save-A-Sato who brought them to the shelter. They were eventually shipped to the shelter in MA., where I was a rescue coordinator for the Sato program. They arrived together huddled in the back of a single crate and they looked from outside like one huge dog. We determined that separating them would be their only hope to socialize and place them. Deana came home with me, Tina went with another coordinator.

I got a 9 month dog, who was alternately huddled in a crate or or was snapping like an alligator if you tried to remove her from the crate. She refused to eat, howled all day/night in mournful tone and pee'd as soon as she was released from the crate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. She was teathered to me for the next 2 months, she was fed from my hand. She was walked with a special halter because she would back out or buck out of any collar placed on her neck. I did the NILIF program, gave her her own room in my house eventually and slowly introduced her to my dogs.

My GSD girl was a kennel 'nanny' before she was rehomed to me. I have to credit her with taking up the pack socialization work. You can't undervalue the role of a confident bitch in getting a sense of appropriate behavior and calming a terrified pup. I was handicapped by my human perspective on dog social order. She 'got it done' much more efficiently than I could have. (Good Girl, Lili!)

Eventually, Deana was taken everywhere I went that dogs were allowed. We took shy/reactive dog training classes. Fast forward eight months, I had a nice but shy dog dog, well trained enough to go to her new home.

For the last 2 plus years she has been a companion to my ex-husband who suffered PTSD and multiple medical problems. We were divorced but remained friends, we had weekly conversations about Deana's behaviors. Unfortunately, he was far more permissive and lenient with her than I would have been, but it worked for them.

Three weeks ago, he passed away suddenly at home. Deana's howling alerted his neighbors. He was found on his bed with Deana standing over him. She was taken away by the paramedics and spent a night at the Animal Control Officer's kennel iin Boston (a noisy and stinky place) until I was able to get her. Her marking behaviors took place on her first night at my home. Clearly it was regression/fear/ and a measure of grief.

We'll get back to her baseline by the same method we got her socailized trained the first time. The take away is: use all the tools in your toolbox, don't get frustrated and anxious if your dog has setbacks, determine which methods are working and which aren't, expect periods of regression and never be afraid to network with others if you can't fix a problem. There is no shame in saying "I need help to fix this." And remember dogs are dogs, they try really hard to accomodate our needs but at the end of the day...they're dogs and they do dog things that sometimes make us crazy. Pick your battles carefully or you'll drive yourself and your dog crazy.
 
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DAWNMERIE

Active member
The take away is: use all the tools in your toolbox, don't get frustrated and anxious if your dog has setbacks, determine which methods are working and which aren't, expect periods of regression and never be afraid to network with others if you can't fix a problem.

Tricia, you are another one of my hero's...you don't share enough!!! So sorry about your ex.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
Tricia, you are another one of my hero's...you don't share enough!!! So sorry about your ex.
Agreed Dawnmerie..so much common sense.

"Picking your battles" is exactly what I am talking about when I say let a dog be a dog. Too often people make the mistake of NOT doing that, and trying to delete too many of the behaviours that are essential to the mental wellbeing of the dog. To frame that: digging is not an offense..digging in the wrong PLACE is an offense, so if you have a dog that LOVES to dig...you have to provide an appropriate outlet for that particular behaviour. (much like we provide chew toys for dogs that like to chew...) Marking isn't an offense...marking in the wrong PLACE is - so we can't stress about them peeing on a shrub when they go for a walk, but we don't allow them to pee in the house etc. You can shape the behaviour to occur when it's appropriate and acceptable, but you cannot ever delete it or you end up with a dog that just gets crazier and crazier.
And yes Tricia..you are one of my heroes too. I'm not sure that I would be patient enough to deal with the girl you are dealing with, she is VERY lucky to have you. (And your canine assistants.)
 

Tricia2

New member
Thank you, Dawn but I'll add that dogs are my heroes. We've co-lived with them for 15,000 years, turned them into shapes, sizes and roles that they were never intended to be and yet they have adapted. They don't know our words or our rules but they watch. They learn. They form deep relationships with us because they trust we have their best interests as a goal. They are truly the best friends we can have.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
thank you, dawn but i'll add that dogs are my heroes. We've co-lived with them for 15,000 years, turned them into shapes, sizes and roles that they were never intended to be and yet they have adapted. They don't know our words or our rules but they watch. They learn. They form deep relationships with us because they trust we have their best interests as a goal. They are truly the best friends we can have.

like.
 
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