Murphy
New member
What Kristen said... :icon_knuddel:
help me figure this out (pic)
- Thread starter NewfieMama
- Start date
What Kristen said... :icon_knuddel:
Ivoryudx
New member
Out of hope? What does that mean? How old is your girl and how is the other knee? Have you consulted with anyone else? What the hell is the surgeon saying?
The Newfoundland Club of America Charitable Trust offers a hardship grant in special cases. If a successful alternative can be found, you may be a candidate for help.
The Newfoundland Club of America Charitable Trust offers a hardship grant in special cases. If a successful alternative can be found, you may be a candidate for help.
YorkvilleNewfie
New member
Susan, Zu is 3 years old and there have been many surgeries at this point, and many failures...this is (if memory serves me) the 3rd failed LP surgery Zu's had. I'm pretty sure she's also had a TLPO, surgical incision infections and I believe a partial CCL rupture in the other leg...oh gosh, I think she even has elbow issues too! Ugh. I want to hug the crap out of you and Zu, Mary!
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NewfieMama
New member
That's a good summary, Kristen, wow you really know her!
So we've done TPLO X1 and LP X3 on her left leg. Partially torn CCL and somewhat luxating patella on the right, no surgery as of yet.
Elbow dysplasia, non-symptomatic.
OCD surgery, right shoulder, age 7 months.
Arthritis in both knees, right shoulder, and possibly elbows.
I'll update later, with what the Angell surgeon said today...thanks all so much for your support...it really means a lot!
Sound Bay Newfs
Active member
Oh Mary, I am so sorry to hear this. You and Zu have been through sooo much. For some reason she is not doing well with the surgeries. I can see how you feel so out of options. Your efforts to help her have been outstanding! If all the surgeries have failed, I am not sure what your options are. We all know you will do what is best for Zu and of course we are here to support your decisions and options.:grouphug:
NewfieMama
New member
Hi All,
So I sent the X-rays to the surgeon at Angell who's done all of her surgeries so far. I can't say enough, really, for what I think the quality of the staff and care are at Angell - it's really an amazing brain trust of veterinary medicine.
Dr. Trout called me and we had a long chat. He said that from the x-ray alone he could not say that her patellar tendon is ruptured; he'd need to palpate it, so thought that the board certified ortho surgeon who saw her yesterday at my vet's office had probably felt it. Basically the x-ray does not tell a bad story. He said her patella appeared to be where it should be on the film; again, my local vet said they could pop it out, but on the x-ray it appeared normal.
He did say that a ruptured patellar tendon is very, very rare and that he's only seen it as a result of direct trauma, like a dog that was kicked in the knee by a horse or one that fell out of the back of a moving pickup truck, directly onto its knee (!!!). He said it was really hard to understand how that could be her injury, considering she's been on lead ALL THE TIME.
Then again, he said he has never, ever seen one of his patella corrections come back 3 times, let alone 4.
So he said that he understood if we wanted to go somewhere else and wouldn't blame me a bit, but that he would absolutely want to work on her if I'd let him. Because he doesn't want to lose and feels sure there is a solution.
He also referred to Zuzu as a unicorn...I think maybe a British expression (?) but basically that so far she has defied conventional wisdom and medicine and that there may indeed be something different about her and the way she's put together.
I told him my local vet had referred to repairing the patella as "easy" and that "even I could do it, even though I'm not board certified" - he laughed and said he'd be glad to talk that one over with him. LOL. (My local vet was nice enough, but there's no way I'm letting anyone who's not board certified do surgery on Zuzu).
I am taking Zuzu in on Monday morning, 8:30 AM (leaving CT at 4:30 AM to make it). He will examine her then, and if he can fix it surgically, I'll leave her there and pick her up on Tuesday. He's consulting with his colleagues over the next couple of days in case there's something he's missed. He's seriously vexed by this.
So I've not talked it over with my husband and I do not know how we're going to pay for it (savings is depleted and Care Credit is maxed and now insurance is maxed, ugh) but I'm sure he'll want to go forward one more time.
We had a hard talk last night, he was crying that he did not want to put her down, I cried too but told him that we have to be really careful to think of HER and not of US - to look really hard at whether she's happy and (relatively) pain free - right now the answer is no, and I could only answer yes for maybe 3 weeks since last May. So it is a dicey and sad proposition - when she's happy, she's so awesome, happy, ready for anything, loving everyone...but when she's in pain, it's just so sad and hard because she does not understand.
Thanks for listening!
Mary
So I sent the X-rays to the surgeon at Angell who's done all of her surgeries so far. I can't say enough, really, for what I think the quality of the staff and care are at Angell - it's really an amazing brain trust of veterinary medicine.
Dr. Trout called me and we had a long chat. He said that from the x-ray alone he could not say that her patellar tendon is ruptured; he'd need to palpate it, so thought that the board certified ortho surgeon who saw her yesterday at my vet's office had probably felt it. Basically the x-ray does not tell a bad story. He said her patella appeared to be where it should be on the film; again, my local vet said they could pop it out, but on the x-ray it appeared normal.
He did say that a ruptured patellar tendon is very, very rare and that he's only seen it as a result of direct trauma, like a dog that was kicked in the knee by a horse or one that fell out of the back of a moving pickup truck, directly onto its knee (!!!). He said it was really hard to understand how that could be her injury, considering she's been on lead ALL THE TIME.
Then again, he said he has never, ever seen one of his patella corrections come back 3 times, let alone 4.
So he said that he understood if we wanted to go somewhere else and wouldn't blame me a bit, but that he would absolutely want to work on her if I'd let him. Because he doesn't want to lose and feels sure there is a solution.
He also referred to Zuzu as a unicorn...I think maybe a British expression (?) but basically that so far she has defied conventional wisdom and medicine and that there may indeed be something different about her and the way she's put together.
I told him my local vet had referred to repairing the patella as "easy" and that "even I could do it, even though I'm not board certified" - he laughed and said he'd be glad to talk that one over with him. LOL. (My local vet was nice enough, but there's no way I'm letting anyone who's not board certified do surgery on Zuzu).
I am taking Zuzu in on Monday morning, 8:30 AM (leaving CT at 4:30 AM to make it). He will examine her then, and if he can fix it surgically, I'll leave her there and pick her up on Tuesday. He's consulting with his colleagues over the next couple of days in case there's something he's missed. He's seriously vexed by this.
So I've not talked it over with my husband and I do not know how we're going to pay for it (savings is depleted and Care Credit is maxed and now insurance is maxed, ugh) but I'm sure he'll want to go forward one more time.
We had a hard talk last night, he was crying that he did not want to put her down, I cried too but told him that we have to be really careful to think of HER and not of US - to look really hard at whether she's happy and (relatively) pain free - right now the answer is no, and I could only answer yes for maybe 3 weeks since last May. So it is a dicey and sad proposition - when she's happy, she's so awesome, happy, ready for anything, loving everyone...but when she's in pain, it's just so sad and hard because she does not understand.
Thanks for listening!
Mary
Ivoryudx
New member
Same surgeon for all the knee surgeries? I definitely would have him look at her again, and I would STAND MY GROUND that THIS SHOULD NOT COST ANYTHING!!!! I don't care if this guy is the best in the world, he SHOULD NOT BE CHARGING YOU AGAIN!!!!!! At this rate, he should be giving you gas money as well!
DO NOT hesitate to tell him that you can't pay, and don't think you should! I would also not allow him to touch the other knee at all. IF he gets this knee fixed, I'd kiss him good bye and be happy its over and go somewhere else if the other knee actually needs anything. I'll be honest here, I've made no bones about the fact I am not a fan of the TPLO, but one thing I've found very disturbing at specialty clinics is they require seperate surgeries for each procedure. I've seen it with friends dogs, and I've discussed it when we've had different Rescues needing surgery. The surgeon we use, is not a board certified Orthopedist, but he has specialized in Orthopedic surgeries for over 20 years and studied under the best. He does not do the TPLO, and when he repairs one of our dogs cructiates, he also repairs anything else in there that is needed at that time. One fee, one surgery. We actually had a boy with a luxated patella and he found the crutiate partially torn when he went in, and he fixed both.
I'm sorry this is happening, and I still hope this is something simple, not needing repaired again. Please give your girl a hug from me!
DO NOT hesitate to tell him that you can't pay, and don't think you should! I would also not allow him to touch the other knee at all. IF he gets this knee fixed, I'd kiss him good bye and be happy its over and go somewhere else if the other knee actually needs anything. I'll be honest here, I've made no bones about the fact I am not a fan of the TPLO, but one thing I've found very disturbing at specialty clinics is they require seperate surgeries for each procedure. I've seen it with friends dogs, and I've discussed it when we've had different Rescues needing surgery. The surgeon we use, is not a board certified Orthopedist, but he has specialized in Orthopedic surgeries for over 20 years and studied under the best. He does not do the TPLO, and when he repairs one of our dogs cructiates, he also repairs anything else in there that is needed at that time. One fee, one surgery. We actually had a boy with a luxated patella and he found the crutiate partially torn when he went in, and he fixed both.
I'm sorry this is happening, and I still hope this is something simple, not needing repaired again. Please give your girl a hug from me!
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Ivoryudx
New member
I should also share, that two days after Maddie had her second knee operated on, she spiked a fever and her leg swelled horribly. I took her to an emergency clinic because it was midnight and she needed help immediately for the fever. To make a long story short, their Ortho Specialist examined her, and he had a couple of Technicians take an xray of her leg and he told me that her patella was out already and she needed surgery asap, and he had an opening the following week. He even showed me on the x-ray what he said was the knee cap out of place.... I believe it was a dirty x-ray slide that he was pointing out as her patella! It made no sense at all!
Fortunately, I'm a skeptic, and I was able to speak directly with her surgeon immediately after that conversation with the Ortho Vet. Love technology, as we emailed the x-rays and everyone had a good look to determine that everything was exactly where it was supposed to be and she was just having an enflammatory response from all the muscle cutting that had been required because her luxation was so severe. Had I listened to him, and believed him, she would have had another surgery by someone who was far to ready to cut!
Both surgeons talked directly on the phone and the conversation was unreal as the Ortho Specialist admitted that he had never done a grade 4 luxation. I'm so glad I stuck with with our surgeon as Maddie did not have to have the knee operated on again, and is doing great.
Fortunately, I'm a skeptic, and I was able to speak directly with her surgeon immediately after that conversation with the Ortho Vet. Love technology, as we emailed the x-rays and everyone had a good look to determine that everything was exactly where it was supposed to be and she was just having an enflammatory response from all the muscle cutting that had been required because her luxation was so severe. Had I listened to him, and believed him, she would have had another surgery by someone who was far to ready to cut!
Both surgeons talked directly on the phone and the conversation was unreal as the Ortho Specialist admitted that he had never done a grade 4 luxation. I'm so glad I stuck with with our surgeon as Maddie did not have to have the knee operated on again, and is doing great.
dumainedogs
New member
It is hard to wrap my brain around the frustration and dismay you must feel about this latest failure. I don't have any sage advice to offer.. just an online hug for you and Zu and your husband. I'm so sorry you're up against this again.
AubreyMo
Inactive User
So heartbreaking. I am so sorry you and Zu are going through this all over again...I agree with Suzan in that you should NOT be charged. If he can't get it right that's his problem, and he should be comping the cost of surgery to make it right.
I also agree with Kristen that we are here to help support you financially, emotionally, mentally, however you need and whatever you decide to do. It's a rough spot to be in. I'm wishing you guys all the best and Moose is crossing his puppy paws for you!
I also agree with Kristen that we are here to help support you financially, emotionally, mentally, however you need and whatever you decide to do. It's a rough spot to be in. I'm wishing you guys all the best and Moose is crossing his puppy paws for you!
victoria1140
Active member
Mary a unicorn is a mythical beast with magical powers though in this refernce a puzzling conundrum if that helps.
good luck Monday will await your followup but again we are here for you.
good luck Monday will await your followup but again we are here for you.
Anthony99
New member
I don't post much, but read all the time. This story SUCS and I hope it has a happy ending. The only thing I can add is please don't pay for another surgery, by the same doc!!!! I'll bet if one of the docs kids had an ACL surgery and it failed not 1x but 3x there is no way he would let that doc operate again, let alone pay for it. I would be up front with him and tell him you can't afford to pay for this, if he says then he can't do the surgery, you just found out what type of person he is. Whether you choose the surgery or the other option, I wish you peace of mind on what ever you decide.
Sound Bay Newfs
Active member
How is Zu doing?
NewfieMama
New member
She is the same. Having a tough time with the snow, though we shoveled a Zu trail all over the yard for her.
Tomorrow morning at 4:30 AM she and I are heading in to Angell Animal Medical Center in Boston. She will see the ortho surgeon, Dr. Trout, who was consulting last week with colleagues. He also spoke with the local vet. I have her films from the local vet.
If they find that it is something that can be repaired surgically, they will do that. I think it has to be, as it has not gotten any better since January 24.
I will tell them that I have no more insurance $$, and that my CARE credit card is maxed from the costs that insurance did not cover from the last 3 surgeries. Being a large hospital (think Cedar Sinai or Massachusetts General) I seriously doubt they can do this for free but maybe they can discount me a bit.
I will try to check in after surgery (assuming it happens), and should be home with her on Tuesday evening.
Thanks all, for your thoughts and support.
Mary
Sound Bay Newfs
Active member
Good luck tomorrow, Mary. You may want to ask why all the previous surgeries have failed.
NewfieMama
New member
It has been clear why, Lynn, every time. Each time the procedure has been different, to address the issues of what happened previously. This guy really, really does know what he's doing, it's not like he's doing the same procedure over and over again and scratching his arse.
Insurance has paid all 3 times, so I guess that shows something. I just hope whatever it is can be fixed...if it's another tendon issue (different tendon, patellar vs. cruciate - which she's had problems with both - and vs. the shoulder tendon she had problems with from a young pup - well I hope she hasn't got some sort of defect in the makeup of her tendons or some other such "unicorn" type issue.
Remember, she does have a huge structural defect that we could see when we brought her home - a 1.5 inch overbite - so she is a special case. Just how unusual, I don't know...