Euthanasia Discussion and Spouses

NKlein

Member
Hi all--I haven't posted on this forum in years. I joined 10 years ago when Byron (pictured in my avatar at age 2) was a puppy. This forum has been very helpful and supportive to me over the years, but after getting a second newf (who is also wonderful!) and having 2 kids, I haven't had time to keep up.

Over the past year or so, I've had repeated "discussions" (sometimes heated arguments) with my husband about Byron. We both consider Byron our "first child". The love I have for him (and Bo) is really no different than the love I have for our human children. Byron is the most wonderful dog and I would truly do anything for him. My husband feels the same way--there are no words for how much we love him.

Byron has been very ill for many years. And as he gets older, his quality of life has gone from bad to intolerable (in my opinion, my husband would likely disagree). This is a rundown of Byron's ailments:

2009 (age 5): we discover a small cyst in Byron's eye while hiking. After seeing several ophthalmologists, we drive up to Canada to see if it can be removed/remedied by a specialist. He feels the procedure is too risky, so we drive home to MA.

2010: Cyst bursts, Byron's retina detaches. We drive to North Carolina to another eye specialist to have the retina re-attached. Repair failed and Byron lost sight in one eye.

In the fall of 2010, Byron very suddenly became paralyzed in his rear legs. After weeks of testing, it was determined that he has Granulomatous Meningoencephalitis (GME), which is an auto-immune disorder that attacks the spinal cord.

2011: Byron was in and out of the hospital for months, paralyzed and on a very high dose of prednisone as well as chemotherapy medications (to keep his immune system suppressed). We nearly lost him twice in critical care due to a chronic bladder infection. We did weekly hydrotherapy appointments to keep the muscles in his rear legs as strong as possible in case he ever went into remission.

2012: Byron developed Cushing's disease from prolonged exposure to high doses of prednisone, so we had to stop GME treatment. Fortunately, Byron had entered remission, so we did not lose him at that point. Unfortunately, he developed a cyst in his other eye and despite our best efforts to save his remaining vision (laser surgery, injections, etc.), he lost sight in both eyes.

2013: GME is still technically in remission because he never had an "attack", however his condition slowly became worse and Byron became incontinent (fecal and urinary). We have to rotate antibiotics as his bladder infection develops a resistance to each medication.

2014: Byron develops a skin condition that his dermatologist is likely due to his hyperthyroidism, but we cannot treat the skin condition medically without disrupting his GME (which would most certainly cause death), so his dermatologist and neurologist agree the Byron's best bet is to live with the skin condition. The skin condition is painful as it has caused his feel to swell and even bleed in places. He was just diagnosed with mites last weekend which is caused by a variety of factors and he is on a new antibiotic that the dermatologist is hoping will help with his skin.

I realize this is a long history, but the point is that he's been very sick for a long time and it continues to get worse. He's blind, incontinent, partially paralyzed and his un-treatable skin condition is at the point where the dermatologist says that when he does walk, it's like "walking on glass". Our plan has always been to keep him as comfortable as possible for as long as possible, but at this point my heart is truly broken for him. He is not a young dog with any hope of recovering. He is an elderly dog with a terminal illness and I believe that he is in a lot of pain.

The level of care for him (in my opinion) is difficult. My husband and I need to bathe him every day. The daily medications aren't so bad, but getting him up, trying to get him to potty, getting him settled, etc. can be tough on me at times. The worst is that I know it will never get better. We've been giving him a daily bath for about a year and a half at this point and since his incontinence is permanent, this will continue until he passes.

The guilt I feel about his quality of life is obviously the most difficult for me. In heated arguments, I've told my husband that I think it is cruel to force him to live like this. I hate pushing for euthanasia for a dog that I love more than anything, but I feel strongly that he doesn't deserve to live like this. My biggest fear is that he will die alone and/or in fear or distress. I want to end his misery and be able to comfort him in his last moments.

My husband feels that as long as Byron has an appetite and isn't in a life-threatening position, we should keep fighting. He often tells me that we wouldn't euthanize our children if they had the same issues, so he's unwilling to euthanize Byron. In heated arguments, he'd told me he thinks I'm "morally corrupt for wanting to kill our dog".

When push comes to shove, we do understand the other's position. We are BOTH trying to do what we think is best for Byron, we just don't see eye to eye about what that is. Obviously I am not going to euthanize our dog without his consent, but each day gets harder for me and the guilt eats at me.

Not sure if this post is just a way for me to vent about a highly emotional issue. Or if I'm looking for advice. Or if anybody has been through anything similar. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, I just know that I'm having a very tough time and it's having a negative impact on my marriage.

Thanks, all--sorry for the long post!
 
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ajcooksey

New member
I am so sorry to hear this. His story breaks my heart. I see where you both are coming from and how much he is loved. My husband and I say we will always prioritize their quality of life over everything else but I think we would be at the same crossroads as you are. I'll pray for Byron's comfort.
 

victoria1140

Active member
Quality of life for us has always been our defining point.

When Beau was diagnosed with cancer and weeks to live l knew the moment when he had had enough and we fussed him that weekend and he was pts on the monday.he was only 4 1/2 and my special boy.

With Max he lost his joy in life.he was uncomfortable and in pain .he was 2 years 2 months old but he wasnt my happy munchkin any more.as soon as we had the news his tumour had grown again we gave him a few days and again we had him pts.

We planned their funerals and cremation.their ashes are in picture frame caskets in the living room.we tried everything to help them with their illnesses but once they werent happy and their quality of life had gone we knew it was time.

Neither were old and in both cases rare cancers but we refused to let them suffer.l have a photo of my munchkin the day before we had him pts.he was on massive painkillers but he looked so sad.it was his time.

The leadup to the decision is the hardest emotionally.once pts it feels like a weight is lifted which makes you feel guilty but we know with hindsight we tried everything to cure our furkids but it wasnt to be.

To us we fought tooth and nail to help our furkids but we had to realise there was a point it would have been unfair to let them suffer and it was our greatest gift to let them go with dignity .it wasnt easy and we miss them terribly but we made the best decision at each moment.
 

estacey

New member
Quality of life is always what I use to make such difficult decisions. I always put the dog before myself and my wanting to keep them. No needless suffering is what I believe.
It is good to see you back here but unfortunate about the circumstances.
 

NKlein

Member
Thank you all, it's nice to talk with a group that really understands. I always say there are dog people, then there are DOG people.

Sadly, there are times when I wish he had passed years ago when he first became paralyzed. I would say that for the past 2+ years, he's "existed" with very little quality of life. But my husband feels that just because he is paralyzed/blind does not mean he is unhappy. Really it's just the painful, untreatable skin issue that has pushed me over the edge because I do feel like it's needless suffering with no resolution. But my husband is ever-optimistic that we can find a way to temper it.

Anyway, thank you all and I'm so sorry for your losses and hard times.
 

Capri

New member
* Make a calendar. Write a + for all the good happy days, and a - for all the bad days. See which ones he has more in a week or another set period.

* Think of 3 things he used to love to do. Can he still do those and enjoy them? When you're to his last pleasure in life, it's time to go.

* Better a day too early than a day too late. I've never heard anyone say they regretted putting a dog to sleep too early, but I've heard many say they've regretted putting them to sleep too late.

* Our last gift to our dog is to let them go before they start suffering. They live day-to-day "in the moment". They don't understand that "it might get better", or what they're going through. They can only understand how they feel in the moment. For as long as we're responsible for our dogs, this is one tough responsibility we must also decide on.


To me it sounds like it's time, especially if you're coming here for advice. It's never easy, but I think you need to take him to the vet. Has your husband gone through loss before? It might just be super tough on him and he might be in the "denial" -phase? Can you schedule an appointment with e.g. the vet or someone impartial to talk to and evaluate the situation?
 

Jeannie

Super Moderator
Quality of life is the most important thing to consider. From reading your post I don't think he has a great quality of life.

If he is not enjoying life then it is time to let him go. So many times we keep them around for US and they are suffering.

When I had Panda euthanized she was eating but not enjoying her life. She couldn't get up. I could tell she was just tired and ready to go. In fact her last breakfast was sirloin steak, powdered donuts and oreo cookies. All her favorites.

Your husband says you wouldn't do that to a child. IMO sometimes this is the best most loving thing we can do for our dogs. Why let them suffer needlessly. Of course I wouldn't jump the gun but there comes a time when you have to make that decision. Believe me I know how hard that can be.

Only you can decide but if he were mine I'd put out of his misery.

If you do a search you will see that Adam got very sick this fall with only a 35% chance of surviving. He got pneumonia that turned sepsis. He as on meds for 18 days, then 4 days after he finished the meds he got it again. That time he was on meds for 26 days. Both times was very rough for him. If he had gotten it back after finishing the meds the 2nd time I had decided I was not going to put him through that again. He would be euthanized immediately. Luckily he never got sick again. Sometimes you have to put the welfare of the dog and quality of life before OUR feelings. I know it is hard. I've had to euthanize 4 newfs and 1 saint so far.
 

BLCOLE

Active member
Man, this just stinks! I tend to agree with your position on the matter, but am obviously not your husband...
 

wrknnwf

Active member
I agree that it's better to early than too late. Capri and Jeannie said it all.
Perhaps your vet will speak with your husband. This isn't an easy thing to do and he may feel he is "killing" his dog instead of setting him free from his pain.
I'm sending good thoughts that your husband will come to terms with this.
 

BLCOLE

Active member
I have an interesting experience with this discussion.

Growing up, we had a black lab that was really my father's dog. The dog was almost 17 when it became apparent that it "was time." My father booked himself and my mom a 2 week trip to France. He pulled me aside the day before they left and told me that he better not see the dog when they got back...
 

NKlein

Member
Thanks again---it's difficult for DH and I to discuss because it's obviously a topic where emotions run high. In his eyes, it is our responsibility to do everything we can for Byron to keep him alive and keep him comfortable. He feels that so long as Byron has an appetite, he is likely not suffering excessively.

Byron sees several specialists regularly--his neurologist, the dermatologist and an internal medicine vet. Each of them has told DH that Byron's quality of life is non-existent, but they have all stopped discussing euthanasia because DH pushes back pretty strongly when they broach the topic. It actually has the opposite effect on DH--instead of the vets helping him to navigate through a very difficult time, he feels the vets are pushing euthanasia and he is the only one fighting for Byron's life.

DH sees a therapist every 2 - 4 weeks and I suggested maybe I go with him at some point so we can talk with the therapist about how to handle our inability to see eye-to-eye. It's not just about Byron--we plan to have dogs throughout our entire life and quite frankly I'm anxious about having to go through a similar experience with Bosun or a future dog.
 

lmfoltyn

New member
I had a similar experience with my husband as you are with yours. Our old boy Dexter was 13 and I could see he was going down hill pretty fast. He had lost weight and wouldn't come upstairs to go to sleep with us, preferred to sleep downstairs, he would vomit when anything cold even water hit his tummy. I had the bridge talk with my husband many times and said that Dexter wasn't going to be with us much longer. He would tell me not to say that and would refuse to discuss putting him to sleep. Then one day he started vomiting profusely. He couldn't even make it to the door but would try. I told my husband he needed to go to the vet but he would not here of it...he said if he is still sick tomorrow we would take him. Well the next day he was worse and he couldn't even get up and was laying in his own vomit. That was it for me and I said he needed to go...the vet looked at him and said that he was old and tired and he could do more testing but what did we want to do...I said it is time...the vet agreed and my husband even though he didn't said ok...Dexter closed his big brown eyes with me looking into them holding his head in my hands...I told him he was the best dog ever and that we loved him so much...still cry remembering that day...but his suffering ended even though ours began...so my question is why would we want to keep them here suffering when we can release their pain for them. We are their lives and they count on us to do what is best for them. Maybe your husband can read what has been written by everyone here and feel he can do the best thing for his fur baby. My thoughts are with you...
 

mrs big dogs

New member
I am so sorry that Bryon has reached this point in his life, and that his life has been so full of pain and suffering, in my opinion his time has come, the poor boy doesn't have a quality of life any more, it is your job and your husbands to help Bryon, give the dog a break, letting him go would be the best thing for him, I wonder how your husband would like to have Bryons quality of life.
I will be praying for Bryon to be released of all his pain.
 

R Taft

Active member
* Make a calendar. Write a + for all the good happy days, and a - for all the bad days. See which ones he has more in a week or another set period.

* Think of 3 things he used to love to do. Can he still do those and enjoy them? When you're to his last pleasure in life, it's time to go.

* Better a day too early than a day too late. I've never heard anyone say they regretted putting a dog to sleep too early, but I've heard many say they've regretted putting them to sleep too late.

* Our last gift to our dog is to let them go before they start suffering. They live day-to-day "in the moment". They don't understand that "it might get better", or what they're going through. They can only understand how they feel in the moment. For as long as we're responsible for our dogs, this is one tough responsibility we must also decide on.


To me it sounds like it's time, especially if you're coming here for advice. It's never easy, but I think you need to take him to the vet. Has your husband gone through loss before? It might just be super tough on him and he might be in the "denial" -phase? Can you schedule an appointment with e.g. the vet or someone impartial to talk to and evaluate the situation?
So perfectly put...to me quality of life is very important. we had a newfie we adored, Zacky, who had several strokes, the first few he was able to walk and go to the toilet after a little time and we accepted him wobbly, but very happy..the thirs time he looked so sad and was incontinent, I knew he would have hated that. So with heavy hearts we both took him to our vet in our jeep, he loved car rides and as we held him and sang to him we allowed him to go, back to being able to run and play...it is very difficult to do, but I feel it is the last great thing we can do for them

During this time when i was on NN a friend on here sent me this

A Pet's Plea

If it should be that I grow frail and weak
And pain should keep me from my sleep
Then you muct do what must be done
For this, the last battle, can't be won.
You will be sad- I understand
Don't let your grief then stay your hand
For this day, more than all the rest
Your love and friendship stand the test.
We've had so many happy years
What is to come can hold no fears
You'd not want me to suffer, so
When the time comes, please let me go.
I know in time you too will see
It is a kindness you do to me
Although my tail, it's last has waved
From pain and suffering I've been saved.
Don't grieve that it should be you
Who has decided this thing to do
We've been so close, we two these years
Don't let your heart hold any tears.
Author Unknown
 

shellyk

New member
I have an interesting experience with this discussion.

Growing up, we had a black lab that was really my father's dog. The dog was almost 17 when it became apparent that it "was time." My father booked himself and my mom a 2 week trip to France. He pulled me aside the day before they left and told me that he better not see the dog when they got back...
Ouch, that is harsh!
 

Jentarin

New member
So much great advice in this thread, and it is something that we all have either struggled with or likely will in the future. I would like to come at this from a slightly different angle though.

My wife is a physician, and has spent a significant amount of time in the Intensive Care Unit. She has spoken with me a couple of times about what goes on in there on a regular basis (she can't talk about specific ones), and it is really heartbreaking to me. People with terminal cancer or degenerative diseases with no hope of a cure who are not allowed to "pass on" even if it is their wish. They code out and are brought back because the hospital is legally obligated to do everything they can or risk lawsuit. DNR's help some, but they don't cover as much as you would think.

My grandfather passed a few years ago, under almost this exact situation. Cancer had metastasized pretty much everywhere, so he was too sick to check himself out, but was never going to get any better. I'm not going to go through the whole story, but I would never want to live like that, and I know he didn't.

Our society has determined that death is something to be feared and avoided at all costs, and not simply a natural end to life. I believe that when we think of our own impending death, many of us pray for a quick death in our sleep, before disease has a chance to wrap our bodies in some horrible embrace.

We may not be allowed to give that to our human family members, but it is one of the few things that we can give our dogs. After a life of love, we can keep them from the pain.
 

shellyk

New member
I think this thread should be a sticky. I plan to share it with my husband this weekend so that we can try to get on the same page before we need it. As a sticky any one could find the great suggestions people have posted when they might need them.
 
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