Euthanasia Discussion and Spouses
- Thread starter NKlein
- Start date
Newfs Forever
New member
You are absolutely correct, Jane! I have also been there and done that.
We have the ability to be much kinder to animals than humans. I don't mean to start a debate, but this is what I feel.
We have the ability to be much kinder to animals than humans. I don't mean to start a debate, but this is what I feel.
DAWNMERIE
Active member
Please know that this has weighed very heavy on my heart. (and as from the sounds of everyone, them too)
Bettina, you now know someone who feels she let a dog go to soon
I know many would say I didn't, but my heart feels differently. He was my first dog. So Nicole, please feel free to tell your husband I actually feel I do know the difference, as sad as that is to say.
I really contemplated this post and have probably re-written it a few dozen times….posting, not posting, it’s not like I want my life put out on the web for the world to see or know but I am sharing so that you know you are not alone and I have hopes that it might give you the courage that you need, for Byron and you have another dog that will possibly need your love and assistance in the future.
I have been in a similar position. My mother shares the same feelings as your husband. She has a heart of gold, and loves very deeply but it is of my opinion it is a personal inability to deal with death and dying, you can not fix it (nor can a therapist) no words will change how they feel. My hopes is that with time and life’s experiences they evolve to a different mindset and understand the ability we have to give our animals and/or loved one’s (should it ever come to that-and I mean pulling a plug or choosing no resuscitation) peace and come to grips with death. For death and grieving comes to us all, it's just a matter of how we handle things. I do not envy your situation. I feel you need to listen to your heart and Byron. You know what must be done, you’ve said it. You just would like your husband to agree because it should be a mutual agreement in your marriage, but sometimes that agreement doesn’t happen and you have to dig deep and find the courage.
My mother has gotten over it but I’m sure she still doesn’t forgive me for the second dog (at young age she escaped the yard and severed her spine, she could still walk but had no bowel or urinary control) even though my mother knew it was the right thing to do, she could not. Me and my siblings dealt with the situation for years. Once the opportunity arose, I handled the situation that my parents inability for whatever reasons at the time could not.
The third and last dog she made me swear not to put down and I did swear and kept my promise with much regret. (older dog with DM) I think the worst part for me was to hate/resent the poor dog I rescued and loved, I knew it was not her fault. She ended up passing all by herself, so we endured all of that, to not be able to comfort her when she left, very shameful to me
It’s now over 20 years later and I still think of all of this. It caused me such grief growing up thinking if anything happened to me or any of my siblings it would be hell and we could possibly end up in an awful predicament. Knowing our wishes would not be carried out and she would never let go, no matter what the circumstances. It still scares me to this day. She still can’t really discuss death and end of life issues properly. I do not know what to expect for the future.
Since back then I was unable to bring myself to know the love of dogs again, I feared it. Vin & I discussed it, made sure he understood me and we took the leap one day and I am ever so grateful we did, I love them and appreciate every waking moment with them. My dogs now are 7 and 6 and I know what lies ahead. After what I have been through with past dogs, I have found a wonderful mobile vet who specializes in at home euthanasia. I’m hoping that Vin & I agree upon the timing of everything because I’m always ever so fearful since my first experience (which has truly scarred me for life) I might wait a little to long. I refuse to bring my dogs into a vet this time to give them peace….it will be at home surrounded with everything & everyone they love. That would be what I would want for myself. I hope this little chapter of a book is helpful cause it certainly has brought some thing to surface for me that I need to address and deal with. You must follow your heart on this.
Wishing you much courage, much love & much needed peace for Byron
P.S. You are not morally corrupt for wanting rest & peace for an animal you love as your child, please don't believe that shite. Hmmm, he should choose his words better and should also understand that marriage is a two way street. I am afraid you will need to do this on your own, it will hurt and it may take all that you have in you, and could possibly affect your marriage but you will know peace for Byron.
Bettina, you now know someone who feels she let a dog go to soon
I know many would say I didn't, but my heart feels differently. He was my first dog. So Nicole, please feel free to tell your husband I actually feel I do know the difference, as sad as that is to say.I really contemplated this post and have probably re-written it a few dozen times….posting, not posting, it’s not like I want my life put out on the web for the world to see or know but I am sharing so that you know you are not alone and I have hopes that it might give you the courage that you need, for Byron and you have another dog that will possibly need your love and assistance in the future.
I have been in a similar position. My mother shares the same feelings as your husband. She has a heart of gold, and loves very deeply but it is of my opinion it is a personal inability to deal with death and dying, you can not fix it (nor can a therapist) no words will change how they feel. My hopes is that with time and life’s experiences they evolve to a different mindset and understand the ability we have to give our animals and/or loved one’s (should it ever come to that-and I mean pulling a plug or choosing no resuscitation) peace and come to grips with death. For death and grieving comes to us all, it's just a matter of how we handle things. I do not envy your situation. I feel you need to listen to your heart and Byron. You know what must be done, you’ve said it. You just would like your husband to agree because it should be a mutual agreement in your marriage, but sometimes that agreement doesn’t happen and you have to dig deep and find the courage.
My mother has gotten over it but I’m sure she still doesn’t forgive me for the second dog (at young age she escaped the yard and severed her spine, she could still walk but had no bowel or urinary control) even though my mother knew it was the right thing to do, she could not. Me and my siblings dealt with the situation for years. Once the opportunity arose, I handled the situation that my parents inability for whatever reasons at the time could not.
The third and last dog she made me swear not to put down and I did swear and kept my promise with much regret. (older dog with DM) I think the worst part for me was to hate/resent the poor dog I rescued and loved, I knew it was not her fault. She ended up passing all by herself, so we endured all of that, to not be able to comfort her when she left, very shameful to me
It’s now over 20 years later and I still think of all of this. It caused me such grief growing up thinking if anything happened to me or any of my siblings it would be hell and we could possibly end up in an awful predicament. Knowing our wishes would not be carried out and she would never let go, no matter what the circumstances. It still scares me to this day. She still can’t really discuss death and end of life issues properly. I do not know what to expect for the future.
Since back then I was unable to bring myself to know the love of dogs again, I feared it. Vin & I discussed it, made sure he understood me and we took the leap one day and I am ever so grateful we did, I love them and appreciate every waking moment with them. My dogs now are 7 and 6 and I know what lies ahead. After what I have been through with past dogs, I have found a wonderful mobile vet who specializes in at home euthanasia. I’m hoping that Vin & I agree upon the timing of everything because I’m always ever so fearful since my first experience (which has truly scarred me for life) I might wait a little to long. I refuse to bring my dogs into a vet this time to give them peace….it will be at home surrounded with everything & everyone they love. That would be what I would want for myself. I hope this little chapter of a book is helpful cause it certainly has brought some thing to surface for me that I need to address and deal with. You must follow your heart on this.
Wishing you much courage, much love & much needed peace for Byron
P.S. You are not morally corrupt for wanting rest & peace for an animal you love as your child, please don't believe that shite. Hmmm, he should choose his words better and should also understand that marriage is a two way street. I am afraid you will need to do this on your own, it will hurt and it may take all that you have in you, and could possibly affect your marriage but you will know peace for Byron.
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NKlein
Member
Thank you all--I know you have put a lot of thought and time into these responses and I promise you they are appreciated. It's not an easy topic to discuss and I know that it is emotionally draining to think about, so thank you.
I'll try to answer all questions.
Dawn, thank you so much for sharing. I do think my husband suffers from the same issue that your mother does--an inability to cope with death. This is one of the reasons I would like to talk about it with his therapist. My husband does have a heart of gold--he truly wants the best for Byron. He can't cope with the fact that death is irreversible. So long as Byron is alive, he feels that we can continue to explore options to relieve his pain and keep him comfortable. He hates the thought of Byron being in pain, but is more afraid of putting him down instead of exploring every option. Whereas I do not agree (obviously).
My biggest fear is what you endured...that Byron will pass on his own without my being there to comfort him. I think if that were to happen, I don't know if I would be able to get past the resentment toward my husband.
He was an ass for telling me I was morally corrupt and I told him as much. It was in the heat of an argument and he was responding to my calling him cruel. But it shows you how emotional we get when discussing this.
BTW, my human children are 3 and 1. We'd actually planned to have them a little sooner, but when Byron was first diagnosed with GME and was in and out of the hospital, I wanted to wait. Plus, he was on a lot of chemo drugs and I was worried about being pregnant while being exposed to so many strong drugs. Once he stabilized, we got pregnant. I remember a couple of weeks after I had Katie (our 3-year-old), I tried to pick him up to help him potty and ended up hemorrhaging and blacking out, so I had to spend the next few days in the hospital and got lectured repeatedly from my doctor and my husband that I absolutely could not pick Byron up. I learned my lesson and the next pregnancy was uneventful. But yes, life with 2 young kids and 2 newfs (Byron being as sick as he is) is tough. I always say that Byron is my toughest kid.
Jane--I'm going to bring up this idea with my husband. I think what you did is beautiful--allowing them to have their final moments in private. I am most certainly willing to take our dog by myself. We have discussed and agreed on which doctor we want to euthanize Byron and what we wish to do with his remains. I often question if my DH could hold it together if we needed to go that route (I don't think he could, I think he would literally be a mess). I know I could hold it together...I don't want Byron trying to comfort either of us in his final moments. If it were just me and Byron, I think it would be less likely to go off course (emotionally).
mcme, up to about a year ago, I was primarily responsible for Byron. I finally hit a breaking point where I could not emotionally care for him any longer...the guilt was too much. I told my husband that I was "done" and if wanted Byron to continue to live, he would have to take over his care. DH does the bathing now, but I still administer some medications and do the weekly (usually more often now) grooming. I don't mind the grooming, it gives me time to talk with Byron and be caring toward him. I feel like so much of our interaction is purely medical--washing, giving meds, etc., that we've lost that dog/human companionship. So I still do that.
Cindy, I've trying to drive home the point that dog's live in the now...they don't reflect on the past or contemplate the future. Byron's "now" is not one I would want to endure and I'm hoping that it at least helps in getting him more comfortable with the thought.
Alexis, I do keep Byron shaved just to keep things more sanitary. He has large calcium deposits on his skin (due to the cushing's disease), so there are already large patches where fur does not grow. Bed sores/large calluses were an issue for a year or two after his paralysis, but oddly they are all gone at this point. I was keeping him on an orthopeadic bed, but with his incontinence it is impossible to keep sanitary, so I keep him on a pile of old bedding that I rotate and wash every day.
He tolerates the baths pretty well...it's basically down to a science at this point and we don't tend to wash his entire body. Summers are easy because we can wash him outside and I often dry him with our grooming dryer because he really likes that (he can't stand the entire time, but that's okay). Winter is tougher, but we have a full bath on our main floor with a stand-alone shower, so he doesn't have to navigate any stairs or get in or out of a tub. It's not a shower that anybody else uses, so I switched out the shower head to one of those hand-held nozzles so we can easily clean him and I leave our grooming stuff in there. So while the constant baths are not ideal for him, it could be worse. And I actually think he tends to like the baths...or at least being clean.
Again, thank you all. Discussions are ongoing and I had a conversation with one of Byron's doctors last week about how to approach my husband about the euthanasia issue. We have another appt. in 2 weeks and if we don't see any improvements at that point, I'm hoping that the doctor and I can talk with DH about the "best options". Also hoping to explore therapy.
I'll try to answer all questions.
Dawn, thank you so much for sharing. I do think my husband suffers from the same issue that your mother does--an inability to cope with death. This is one of the reasons I would like to talk about it with his therapist. My husband does have a heart of gold--he truly wants the best for Byron. He can't cope with the fact that death is irreversible. So long as Byron is alive, he feels that we can continue to explore options to relieve his pain and keep him comfortable. He hates the thought of Byron being in pain, but is more afraid of putting him down instead of exploring every option. Whereas I do not agree (obviously).
My biggest fear is what you endured...that Byron will pass on his own without my being there to comfort him. I think if that were to happen, I don't know if I would be able to get past the resentment toward my husband.
He was an ass for telling me I was morally corrupt and I told him as much. It was in the heat of an argument and he was responding to my calling him cruel. But it shows you how emotional we get when discussing this.
BTW, my human children are 3 and 1. We'd actually planned to have them a little sooner, but when Byron was first diagnosed with GME and was in and out of the hospital, I wanted to wait. Plus, he was on a lot of chemo drugs and I was worried about being pregnant while being exposed to so many strong drugs. Once he stabilized, we got pregnant. I remember a couple of weeks after I had Katie (our 3-year-old), I tried to pick him up to help him potty and ended up hemorrhaging and blacking out, so I had to spend the next few days in the hospital and got lectured repeatedly from my doctor and my husband that I absolutely could not pick Byron up. I learned my lesson and the next pregnancy was uneventful. But yes, life with 2 young kids and 2 newfs (Byron being as sick as he is) is tough. I always say that Byron is my toughest kid.
Jane--I'm going to bring up this idea with my husband. I think what you did is beautiful--allowing them to have their final moments in private. I am most certainly willing to take our dog by myself. We have discussed and agreed on which doctor we want to euthanize Byron and what we wish to do with his remains. I often question if my DH could hold it together if we needed to go that route (I don't think he could, I think he would literally be a mess). I know I could hold it together...I don't want Byron trying to comfort either of us in his final moments. If it were just me and Byron, I think it would be less likely to go off course (emotionally).
mcme, up to about a year ago, I was primarily responsible for Byron. I finally hit a breaking point where I could not emotionally care for him any longer...the guilt was too much. I told my husband that I was "done" and if wanted Byron to continue to live, he would have to take over his care. DH does the bathing now, but I still administer some medications and do the weekly (usually more often now) grooming. I don't mind the grooming, it gives me time to talk with Byron and be caring toward him. I feel like so much of our interaction is purely medical--washing, giving meds, etc., that we've lost that dog/human companionship. So I still do that.
Cindy, I've trying to drive home the point that dog's live in the now...they don't reflect on the past or contemplate the future. Byron's "now" is not one I would want to endure and I'm hoping that it at least helps in getting him more comfortable with the thought.
Alexis, I do keep Byron shaved just to keep things more sanitary. He has large calcium deposits on his skin (due to the cushing's disease), so there are already large patches where fur does not grow. Bed sores/large calluses were an issue for a year or two after his paralysis, but oddly they are all gone at this point. I was keeping him on an orthopeadic bed, but with his incontinence it is impossible to keep sanitary, so I keep him on a pile of old bedding that I rotate and wash every day.
He tolerates the baths pretty well...it's basically down to a science at this point and we don't tend to wash his entire body. Summers are easy because we can wash him outside and I often dry him with our grooming dryer because he really likes that (he can't stand the entire time, but that's okay). Winter is tougher, but we have a full bath on our main floor with a stand-alone shower, so he doesn't have to navigate any stairs or get in or out of a tub. It's not a shower that anybody else uses, so I switched out the shower head to one of those hand-held nozzles so we can easily clean him and I leave our grooming stuff in there. So while the constant baths are not ideal for him, it could be worse. And I actually think he tends to like the baths...or at least being clean.
Again, thank you all. Discussions are ongoing and I had a conversation with one of Byron's doctors last week about how to approach my husband about the euthanasia issue. We have another appt. in 2 weeks and if we don't see any improvements at that point, I'm hoping that the doctor and I can talk with DH about the "best options". Also hoping to explore therapy.
Please keep us updated. I sincerely hope your husband knows that we all understand how difficult this is for him. No one condemns his ideas, even though we may see things differently. Experience is a good teacher and many of us have been to that school already.
Please imagine, if you can, that we are embracing each of you and sending our love in this difficult time. No matter the outcome, we still care and are here for support if you need us.
Please imagine, if you can, that we are embracing each of you and sending our love in this difficult time. No matter the outcome, we still care and are here for support if you need us.
NKlein
Member
Bo turned 6 in December. We call him the perpetual puppy.
ETA, thank you, Jane. I knew before posting that it was a sensitive issue. I've nearly posted about this a few times, but was afraid to post something that might put people on edge. I'm not sensitive to it myself at this point (I've resolved after many discussions w/ DH that this is not a right/wrong issue), but don't want to cause a problem. I appreciate the advice and stories, it really has helped me with things I can suggest and consider.
ETA, thank you, Jane. I knew before posting that it was a sensitive issue. I've nearly posted about this a few times, but was afraid to post something that might put people on edge. I'm not sensitive to it myself at this point (I've resolved after many discussions w/ DH that this is not a right/wrong issue), but don't want to cause a problem. I appreciate the advice and stories, it really has helped me with things I can suggest and consider.
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DAWNMERIE
Active member
Any chances of making him a therapy dog? I've been thinking that maybe if he was and your husband was able to see terminally ill children and their parents, it might help him understand. Not that I think you have a ton of time with Byron at this point, but it could help with Bo and possibly other situations.
DAWNMERIE
Active member
I came across this tonight and thought it might possibly help you and your husband if your still checking in Nicole
http://www.spiritsintransition.org
http://www.spiritsintransition.org
NinaA
New member
I am so sorry that it took me so long to see this, and I cannot express how sorry I am for you. I, too, have a story. We have had to put many of our dogs down, Echo being the last. She was a wonderful Newf and a perfect girl. She was to the point of just being miserable and tired of trying. We did it without regret. I think your husband has issues with death as so many people do. Perhaps he has never lost a family member. I will tell you this short story. My father-in-law developed pancreatic cancer. He was a very active 60 year old retired gentleman, living in Florida and having the time of his life. When he returned to us so we could take care of him at the end my children did not recognize him. He looked like he had been released from a concentration camp. He was weak, sick, stick thin at 6'4", and literally scared people. He tried and tried and was just tired of trying. One day I was checking on him and he was on the floor. We had to call EMS. I knew it was the end. He asked me to get him on the bed before the ambulance people came. I can't believe I actually managed to do it. He went to the hospital in terrible pain. They started loading him up with pain killers. He got worse. Finally after several days he went into a coma. My husband sat by his side for another five days until he finally passed. There was no hope from the beginning. I have always felt that I would have given anything if I could have done for my father-in-law, who I loved like my own parent, what I was able to do for my dogs. It is a gift that we can give them. A blessing. And I have never had any regrets about doing it. They do not suffer at all and it is very peaceful. My best to you and your husband and family.
jolliz
New member
Gosh, this really hit home for me.
My cat Stitch had to be euthanized in December just before Christmas. He had IBD and had been going slowly downhill for 18 months. We were spending $50 every 3 weeks on special food and doing our best for him. He had several courses of antibiotics.
He crashed twice and after the second time the vet told me on the phone that his liver function was very low. He had infections, she thought he might have necrotic tissue inside his body.
Still, my husband would not let him go. We ground on with this poor little cat dying by degrees for another week, and finally I got him to agree to euthanasia. I was so angry with my husband but he would not let go.
Life stops eventually for every pet, it has to be faced. It's wrenching, it's painful but it's part of responsible pet ownership.
He made me feel so guilty, but Stitch's body was shutting down, it had to be faced so the poor animal wouldn't suffer.
My cat Stitch had to be euthanized in December just before Christmas. He had IBD and had been going slowly downhill for 18 months. We were spending $50 every 3 weeks on special food and doing our best for him. He had several courses of antibiotics.
He crashed twice and after the second time the vet told me on the phone that his liver function was very low. He had infections, she thought he might have necrotic tissue inside his body.
Still, my husband would not let him go. We ground on with this poor little cat dying by degrees for another week, and finally I got him to agree to euthanasia. I was so angry with my husband but he would not let go.
Life stops eventually for every pet, it has to be faced. It's wrenching, it's painful but it's part of responsible pet ownership.
He made me feel so guilty, but Stitch's body was shutting down, it had to be faced so the poor animal wouldn't suffer.
NKlein
Member
Hi all, I'm so sorry for not updating sooner. We decided to treat Byron's dermatological issues more aggressively and I wanted to see how the treatment was going before updating. And then the past few weeks have just been truly awful with all the snow in New England--I feel like I spend every spare second shoveling snow!
After posting last month, my husband agreed that Byron should not live in pain. Hence the decision to be more aggressive with his skin condition--we figured we had nothing to lose. Either it triggered his GME and we would be forced to put him down or it may help Byron. Thankfully, his skin responded well and Byron has been more comfortable in the last couple of weeks than he's been in months. So far we've had no complications, but we know that even now, each day is a gift.
I am relieved knowing that Byron is no longer in any pain. I can accept his physical limitations (the blindness, the partial rear paralysis, and the incontinence), though I know his quality of life is not ideal. His eyes don't hurt him, he doesn't have bed sores, he's been walking around more once we get him up and he's been having fewer accidents now that he is feeling better. I still wish we had not let him get to this point, but now that it's been this way for years, I can accept it.
Unfortunately we found out that our 6-year-old newf very likely has bone cancer. He started limping a week ago and we thought he pulled a muscle pushing through the snow. The vet said to let him rest and call back if it got worse. It did get worse, so we made an appt., but ended up taking him to the emergency vet today because Bo was whimpering.
We are doing the biopsy tomorrow to confirm exactly which type of bone cancer he has (most likely osteosarcoma). When discussing treatment, my husband and I both agreed that we want to focus on treatment that can give him the best quality of life possible, not necessarily prolong his life for as long as possible.
I mention this because I think it shows how much Byron's struggle has shaped our view on how to best treat terminally-ill dogs (for us, obviously). Neither of us want Bo to go through what Byron has gone through and I'm actually encouraged that my husband agrees. I know my husband will have a very hard time when it is time to let go, but I'm hoping he'll have accepted it.
Thanks to all of you. And thank you Nina and Jolliz for sharing your stories. It helps not to feel completely alone when navigating through these very difficult decisions
After posting last month, my husband agreed that Byron should not live in pain. Hence the decision to be more aggressive with his skin condition--we figured we had nothing to lose. Either it triggered his GME and we would be forced to put him down or it may help Byron. Thankfully, his skin responded well and Byron has been more comfortable in the last couple of weeks than he's been in months. So far we've had no complications, but we know that even now, each day is a gift.
I am relieved knowing that Byron is no longer in any pain. I can accept his physical limitations (the blindness, the partial rear paralysis, and the incontinence), though I know his quality of life is not ideal. His eyes don't hurt him, he doesn't have bed sores, he's been walking around more once we get him up and he's been having fewer accidents now that he is feeling better. I still wish we had not let him get to this point, but now that it's been this way for years, I can accept it.
Unfortunately we found out that our 6-year-old newf very likely has bone cancer. He started limping a week ago and we thought he pulled a muscle pushing through the snow. The vet said to let him rest and call back if it got worse. It did get worse, so we made an appt., but ended up taking him to the emergency vet today because Bo was whimpering.
We are doing the biopsy tomorrow to confirm exactly which type of bone cancer he has (most likely osteosarcoma). When discussing treatment, my husband and I both agreed that we want to focus on treatment that can give him the best quality of life possible, not necessarily prolong his life for as long as possible.
I mention this because I think it shows how much Byron's struggle has shaped our view on how to best treat terminally-ill dogs (for us, obviously). Neither of us want Bo to go through what Byron has gone through and I'm actually encouraged that my husband agrees. I know my husband will have a very hard time when it is time to let go, but I'm hoping he'll have accepted it.
Thanks to all of you. And thank you Nina and Jolliz for sharing your stories. It helps not to feel completely alone when navigating through these very difficult decisions
Newfs Forever
New member
Nicole and Dan,
I am so very sorry to read about Bo, and glad to hear that Byron is no longer in pain.
Sending many good thoughts and prayers for all of you!
I am so very sorry to read about Bo, and glad to hear that Byron is no longer in pain.
Sending many good thoughts and prayers for all of you!
mrs big dogs
New member
I am glad to hear Byron is doing better, also very sorry about Bo, I will continue to pray for them as well as you and your husband