Questions on Breeding Newfs

[CassandraHamilton]

Hi all,

I know absolutely nothing about breeding Newfs.

Any suggestions on books to read?

Why is it important to get a Newf from a kennel that shows their Newfs vs. someone that does not? Can't one get a good Newf from a breeder that doesn't show?

What are some of the hazards of poor breeding?

Does good confirmation = good breeding? Or is this only part of the equation?

Thanks for any information you give!!

 

[Thule's Mom]

I know nothing about it either, other than I know it is not for the faint of heart, but what I have heard is that it is most important to have a "mentor", another breeder.

 

[Sun Valley]

Hi Cassie,

This won't answer your questions directly, but I would advise you to learn as much as you can about the breed and the different bloodlines before even considering breeding. As Deb mentioned, breeding is not for the faint of heart.

Finding a mentor is also an excellent idea. Go to shows and see which dogs you like and what bloodlines you like. Find a reputable breeder you are comfortable with and who will be honest about the problems they have in their lines and someone who knows about the dogs in their pedigree's.

Anyone can breed and call themselves a breeder. But taking the time to do it right will help you tremendously.

Just learn, learn, and then learn more.

Lou Ann

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

The main goal of breeding should be to improve the breed. So health clearances are essential to continue healthy lines and breed out hereditary diseases. A breeder that shows her dogs is important because it "confirms" that the dog meets the breed standard. This way a responsible breeder is continuing on healthy and dogs that meet the breed standard for appearance, size, coat, movement, structure, etc.
Poor breeding will result in dogs that are not healthy and may not even look like newfs.

 

[Peter Maniate]

There is only one good way to start as a breeder of Newfs. You must find a breeder that you respect who will take you under their wing for the next five to ten years.

Normally you get your "foundation bitch" from your mentor breeder or at least get this bitch with their advice and assistance.

The foundation bitch is the most important Newf that a breeder acquires. If you choose wrong you will get off to a bad start and everything will go downhill from there.

Like just about everything that I have learned, I have learned this the hard way. In 1975 I got my first foundation bitch and she was wrong in so many ways. Fortunately in 1980 my late wife and I got a second start and were mentored by wonderful breeders who supplied us with a second foundation bitch upon whom we were able to build our line. I share this in hope that not everyone will have to follow in my footsteps and learn the hard way.

 

[Leonard and his bud Snuffles]

Does good confirmation = good breeding? Or is this only part of the equation?

Believe me, I am no expert in anyway shape or form. Snuffles came to me from a neighbor, so I know really nothing on the ethics of breeders who do have champions in their lines. But I know good confirmation in NOT= good breeding!

I have a local acquaintance who had a male. He was a beautiful dog, but early on it was discovered he had heart problems. The dog died a few months before his 5th birthday. Someone else in the area had a litter mate female of the same dog so I am told. That female got a lot of the awards etc. The owner decided to breed her with another male from the same breeder who I can almost bet had a CH. Several of the puppies born did have heart problems, and several have died. So in this case confirmation did not mean squat.

Knowing people who have shown dogs (besides newfs too) and talking to them, unfortunately best I can tell, AKC is very political. It almost sounds like the judges already have it in their mind who is going to win, not based on the dog, but who is showing. And also best I can tell, confirmation really only deals with looks, and not under lying issues that can not be seen by the judge.

 

[victoria1140]

if you are considering breeding make sure you have enough space, the ability to get up after very little sleep, not be too houseproud as there is a lot of poop and pee to clean up. Also you need a backup bank account in case something goes wrong.

Imagine having x amount of babies in the house at the same time all vying for attention and food, its hard work.

bad breeding can mean at worst puppies with severe health issues or even dying. Its not for the faint hearted as any breeder will tell you there are ups and downs to it. Also are you prepared to take back the pup if the owners cant cope

 

[CassandraHamilton]

Thanks everyone for responding!

I should have mentioned that I'm not interested in becoming a breeder! But I would like to know more about it as I'd like to get a second Newf.

It sounds like becoming a breeder is a very serious task; something that takes a lot of knowledge, planning, and commitment.

I was taken to task for not looking at the local NCNE breeder's dogs; I explained that my reasoning to look elsewhere was based on my experience with horses: I used to compete heavily and would regularly win with my inexpensive horses over people who would spend tens of thousands on them. So, my thinking was: I didn't think I really needed to spend a lot of money on a Newf. I got my Newf from a small breeder in ME; I didn't spend much on her & I'm tickled with her. She's small for the breed and I like that she is. (Actually, I like everything about her. I'm smitten.)

Anyway, as I'm looking for a second Newf, I'm trying to understand more about breeding and why it's important for me to spend thousands of dollars on a dog. I won't ever show for confirmation or be a breeder. I will use my dog as a service dog, therapy dog and for working fun, such as water rescue and carting.

I don't mean to insult anyone who puts so much time into this task. I'm just trying to understand the complex issue of how to buy another dog (and in the meantime, not offending any more breeders with my questions!).

Anymore thoughts on the subject, I'd really, really appreciate! Everything I learn about Newf's I'm so thrilled. It's been a great adventure and I want more! )))

 

[Sun Valley]

Thanks everyone for responding!


So, my thinking was: I didn't think I really needed to spend a lot of money on a Newf.

Cassie,


Even a 'pet' should come from healthy quality parents. If your looking for a bargain or something cheap, you need to be aware of the pitfalls and the money it may end up costing you.

Good Luck in your search...I hope you find that special puppy.

Lou Ann

 

[Ginny]

Leonard, the problem your friend had with the Newf with heart issues had nothing to do with the fact that the dog was a show dog. It sounds to me like, it came down to a lack of health clearances or really bad luck with the way the genes fell together.

You need to start with a dog that meets the standard and showing is designed to evaluate dogs for breeding stock. Political? yes, sometimes, but it's the best system that we have.

The reason dogs from show people usually, but not always, cost more than a dog from a back yard breeder, is the money spent on clearances, breeding, and showing. I just had a litter of 8 and I am thousands in the hole. I didn't breed for the money, I bred as Lynn said, to improve the breed. If you buy from someone who does no screening, you are taking a huge risk. Newfs, as is the case with all purebreds, have genetic issues. Reputable breeders do everything in their power to stack the deck in favor of producing healthy pups by knowing pedigrees, selecting dogs that are sound via health screenings, and, yes, those that look like and are put together as a Newf should be. BYBers just breed any two dogs without rhyme or reason.

My advice to you, Cassie, is to buy from a reputable show breeder and save yourself heartache and the $ an unsound dog will cost you in the long run... Know, however, that reputable breeders only do the best they can, and that problems can and do crop up. Good luck in your search.

 

[Lori]

Like everyone said, it is best to buy from a reputable breeder. I learned the hard way and bought from the first one we went to, ended up being a BYB. My Chelsea had epilepsy, heart murmur, hip dysplasia and arthritis. I did let the "breeder" ( and I use that term loosely) know all about her problems, especially the epilepsy. She didn't really seemed concerned and I'm pretty sure Chelsea's mom had many more puppies. Not to say that all would have epilepsy, but it would raise the odds I would think. The money I spent on vet visits and meds probably equals a lot more than I would have spent had I searched more. As I have looked back in my records, I've seen that the President of my local club had a litter at that time also. Why I didn't search further I don't know, guess the thrill of getting the puppy quickly won. I loved Chelsea with all my heart and it broke it to see how much she suffered. She was only 5 1/2 years old when she went to the bridge.

Now my Chance was a rescue and I didn't know anything about his background and he lived to be 12 years old.

I can only imagine how much work goes into breeding these dogs, the proper way, with all the clearances and testing. And the heartbreak too. Thanks to all of you who do this.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

Conformation is one thing and health testing is another. If a dog has his championship, that does not mean the dog has passed all his health clearances. It is up the breeder not to breed a particular dog.

There is no such thing as getting a bargain when buying a pup. If there is a breeder that is charging less than others, then most likely they have taken short cuts somewhere.

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

As my father used to say to me " you spend the money up front and get quality, or you can spend your money fixing and repairing later." I think this goes along with what Lou Ann and Ginny are saying.

It isn't just the showing that makes the breeder the reputable but all the other things that goes along with that. It is taking the time up front and learning about the breed and how to breed properly. It's doing all the health checks, researching pedigrees, doing everything we can to produce health dogs by putting the odds in our favor. Still not a guarantee but sure as heck more likely. And if you were to have a problem - a reputable will be there to try and help you.

 

[Thule's Mom]

When buying any dog, money "maybe" should be a secondary factor, after the breeder's reputation and the health clearances that are provided. You can spend little money - you can spend a fortune... all good money gone if the dog is not healthy - when you'll be in for nothing but heartache.

 

[R Taft]

My thought would be look for a rescue.......you can see the end product, if mature. You give a precious rescue dog a new life and they are cheaper to purchase. I have seen some lovely newf's looking for homes. You won't ned the registrations and all that if you are just looking for a lovely newf character. Good luck in finding your other dog, Ronnie

 

[CassandraHamilton]

fgd

 

[CassandraHamilton]

Hi all,

I spent a long time posting a reply... and then got kicked off the site. Murphy's law!

I really appreciate all these responses; it sounds like I need to go to some shows and talk to more breeders to understand what it is that they are trying to do (in the whole breeding process). Again, if anyone knows of some books on breeding that I should read, I would very much appreciate the referrals.

When I bought my Newf, I looked at her pedigree, saw that her parents were good; they both had many tests. I spoke with the local vet that delivered the puppies. I asked his opinion on the litter. He thought they were quite good. I visited the breeders 3x before buying. We had long talks about my needs (I have MS, I wasn't going to show, I'd do dog-fun activities). They thought my Newf would be right for that bill (and she is). So, I thought I was doing a pretty good job of selecting a dog for me.

Since owning her, I've learned a lot about training (and still have much more to learn). I'm fortunate to be around NCNE judges and members who are very knowledgeable and have shared so much with me about training. When it comes to understanding dog breeding and all the complex issues, I'm very much a neophyte. Assumptions that I made about how to pick a dog (based on my knowledge on how to pick a horse) apparently don't equally correlate. For example, I thought that talking to the vet was a good final step. I've always done this with horses I've chosen and done well. But I'm getting from this string that just because the parents were tested, that doesn't mean you've a good shot of the puppies being good. You need the puppies tested as well.

Again, I hope I haven't offended anyone with my questions. I am just trying to understand what a breeder does and how to pick a dog that will work well with me. I am on the NCNE rescue list; but I'd also like to work with a dog from puppy stage. And, obviously, I'd like to get a puppy that will be right for the work I plan to do with it.

Any thoughts ya'll like to share with me about breeding; I'd be very interested! Thanks!!!

Cassie

 

[Thule's Mom]

Just thinking out loud... did I see books like this on the NCA website? I know I saw them somewhere.... I THINK it was there. good luck with your search!

 

[Capri]

Well it's good that you are asking the questions now rather than later, so I don't understand how anyone could be offended by any of your posts .

The best book I know about breeding is "The Book of the Bitch" by Evans & White, though it's more on about having the actual litter, taking care of the bitch etc. than choosing the stud or the right dog for you. But if you find in anywhere, I would suggest everyone to read it .

Show dogs don't unfortunately directly mean reputable breeders or healthy dogs, BUT most of the show dog ppl are more informed about current health checks than the BYB's, which means that you'll have more luck finding reputable breeders (= breeders who breed for the right reasons (i.e. not money or just beauty) and do all the health checks on their dogs and puppies) from showrings or working events. There ARE also reputable breeders who do the reasearch but don't attend events, but they are rare as usually if the breeder puts the effort into the litter, they will want to see their dogs do well and present them to others (and not just speaking of shows here but all types of events and activities!).

Newfoundland puppies can be expensive, but as long as the puppy is from a reputable breeder, I would be more than willing to pay the extra $$ now rather than later to the vet. Newf puppies from reputable breeders can be expensive due to the huge costs that breeders have to pay even before the litter is born, and then the $$ & time & effort put into the litter = insane . You wouldn't want to see OUR paperwork .

When looking into buying a puppy, you just have to do a lot of research (= going through health databases), find a good breeder who you trust and who will be there for you throughout the dogs life, and then just hope for the best . Even good breeders have bad litters occasionally where everything just goes wrong. It's not their fault, because genes are genes and unfortunately we can't foresee the future! So the reputable breeders will do their research through databases, going through lineages, talking to ppl and well spending a lot of time to try to make the right decisions in retaining the good health of their dogs. A reputable breeder won't ever use a dog that's not suitable for breeding (whereas a BYB might for the $$ from the puppies).

A reputable breeder will have spent so much effort in choosing the right parents for the litter, that they will continue on putting the effort into their young puppies. Therefore, the best advice on picking a puppy for you from a litter is: listen to the breeder. They will have watched the puppy since it's birth 24/7 and will know their characters better than anyone else .

 

[R Taft]

Oh well, I went on the wrong track, I thought from one of your answers that you were just looking for another dog

That being said...........I asked my breeder, who is my mentor,if i could meet some of her previous pups at more mature ages. So she connected me with quite a lot of her pups at the ages of four and five and some even at ten.........this allowed me to see her lines at different ages and talk with owners. It is also a good reason to go to these newfie days for that. I have done 14 hour round trips for newfie days, sothat i could meet a lot of newfs and ask about the where they come from and see them in action. I did this before I got Katy. I met a lot of her Bitch's sisters,brotheres other pups from previous litter and even cousins. I also did the same with the Dog, just searched out all of these dogs. And let me tell you that newfie owners love talking about their dogs, even about all the Medical problems. And of course we met several litters and did character tests on them and trusted my breeder with her knowledge.
But Katy still had to have all the medical check and is still in for some more in teh future, before she could possibly be bred. Which would only be under total guidance of her breeder and Co-owner. And I would only breed her if the breeder wanted to.
Horses are not that different.........We have bred good working Quarter horse. There are not many Q-horses around that are sound and still working at the age of 25-30, which is what they are capable of if bred for conformation and working lines and not just winning money. There are many horses which are bred for show and are very pretty and bulky and they are winning at halter and cutting. But could not chase a cow on the plains and then cut them in the yards and do this all day. A lot of expensive, considered well bred horses often get orthopedic issues, but that is another story