I asked this question in my newf only obedience class this week

[Bsmiz]

Is it possible to train a newf without the use of a choke or prong collar?

My newf is only 7 mos old, and he's my first. Ideally, I'd like to train without, especially because I'd like to get him involved with dog therapy and those collars can't be used in testing.

I have to say, Quinn is generally quite good. He walks on a loose leash really well, has great recall etc etc. What we are starting to see is more lunging and pulling around other dogs(particularly other newfs)...especially females!!! Yes, I believe his hormones are starting to come alive! At this point he's appx 90 pounds and getting quite strong....and harder to control when he's got a really enticing distraction. Can I find a way to manage times like these without the choke collar?

What works/doesn't work for you?

p.s. he's in several obedience and manners classes. One with just newfs, one with a trainer big on positive reinforcement/no chokes, and a junior handling class with my 10 year old.

 

[Bsmiz]

and because I haven't posted a pic in a while

Quinn at 7 mos. just after his first "big boy" haircut around his ears

 

[plafleursr]

We rescued Venus in Nov 2008, she was two yrs old. I used a choker type collar with her obedience classes. Once they are trained you should be able to use any collar. We did her TDI test on a buckle collar Nov 2009, where she passed and is starting to visit.
Pete

 

[panthernewf]

My vet had recommended the Gentle Leader leash - and it worked pretty well for Cookie. I've seen them used on other large breeds.

 

[victoria1140]

gencon for Beau

 

[Angela]

It may depend on the puppy I feel.
Last puppy was Evan(that's a while ago!!) He never needed anything other than a flat or martingale collar. We used lots of praise, some treats for training.

Other Newfs I have had needed prong collars, I won't use choke chains on them for training, as first Newf got tracheal damage from it. Admittedly he was out of control when he started school at 9 mths but that was my fault.

Now puppies start their obedience training as soon as they set paws inside my house.

 

[Newfobsessed]

Thanks for the picture of Quinn!! Gorgeous growing baby boy!! My trainer suggested the prong collar instead of the choke. Like Pete, I no longer need a choke or prong with my boy, but while those hormones are settling in, you will need some reinforcements!

 

[RiverTheNewf]

I am sure it can be done, but it would take a lot of strength and patience. I use a prong about once a week on a walk with River to reinforce the no lunging. Most of the time she wears a standard buckle collar...but she doesn't have the raging testosterone!!

 

[Bailey Boy]

I have never used a choke or prong - what I use now is a martingale, we use to use the buckle or clip collars. Our trainer wouldn't allow the use of those collars while training and since Bailey backed out of his buckle collar she suggested the martingale. It is all material which I like and can't tighten down. I have seen to many people misuse those types of collars in training.

My Tootsie has lp so there is no throat/neck correction. She wears a collar but it only is there hold her id tags only. For walking and training she wears a harness.

 

[JackandKelly]

We went for over a year without using a prong on Lola. I tried so hard to never have to use more than a standard collar. Recently she has started to pull to go see people. She doesn't care much about other animals, just wants to visit people. She would pull so hard that she would gag using her regular collar so while at Petsmart we tried several different collars. The martingale, a choke/check collar etc.. These all made her gag (now this is Lola, some dogs do wonderful with the Martingale..just not her). When I put the prong on her, she stopped pulling almost instantly so no gagging. I worry about damage to the trachea with anything that they will pull hard enough against to make them gag or cough.
We tried the Gentle Leader harness and yes, she pulled less, but it did not teach her not to pull. We also tried the nose collar. If she would pull it would pull her head sideways and our vet said that if they jerk it sideways hard enough they can do damage to their cervical spine.
With all this said, no matter how much I tried to not use the prong...it is the only thing that kept her from pulling at all. Even though some people think it looks barbaric it actually is the only one that tells them to stop before they pull hard enough to hurt themselves.

If I had a male with raging testosterone I would definitely use it since pulling loose from you could mean being hit by a car or an encounter with an aggressive dog.

Our goal is to use it short term with Lola to train her then only in situations that I fell could be dangerous such as walking along a busy street etc..

It is very important with any training collar to make sure it is used correctly. Do not let them continuously pull and choke themselves.

 

[sendchocolate]

Good thread...Poppy is pulling and chewing the leash. I have tried the harness, and it works a bit, but she is still pulling. Biting the leash bothers me more, so what do you suggest for that?

 

[mrsnamsherf]

I used a prong on my lab, who came to me as an adult and was a terrible puller. (I have a bad neck from a car accident, and could not handle his sudden lunges.) He learned quickly (in a regular collar) not to tow me down the street using the "be a tree" method (you just freeze in place the minute your dog starts pulling, and don't take another step until they put some slack in the leash). This did not stop his sudden unexpected lunges when he saw another dog, however. The prong was great for that, and I found it superior to the choke. Mac did not care one whit for the choke, and I had to yank so hard-he would just pull and pull (and gag and gag). He respected the prong, knew just how far he could lean against it (not very :lol, and it didn't seem to bother him at all. Because the martingale collar is similar in design to the choke (no prongs, but tightens in the same way), he developed a lot of response to the martingale as well.

All that said, I feel confident that, had I done more training with him (and I did a fair amount as it was), he could have learned to respond as well in a buckle collar. What he needed, and didn't get, was a LOT of dog encounters-what I needed was a meet and greet class, so I could learn how to teach him better. Good for you to be taking your boy to classes, and not wasting any time. :sunflower:

Marie

 

[mudji]

My vet had recommended the Gentle Leader leash - and it worked pretty well for Cookie. I've seen them used on other large breeds.

Ditto.. I use them when I walk both kids at the same time. They work great. For Mudji a choke did not really help that much. This was a better alternative.

hannah

 

[NewfieMama]

We use a martingale leash on Cooper. We also have a regular "slip lead" of the same material, given to us by the breeder. Here's a link to the martingale; I like it because I still get 6' of lead on top of the collar portion, which our obedience classes require.

Big Dog Walker:

http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/servlet/product_10001_10001_38997_-1_Big+Dog+Walker%2C+12+inch%2C+6+ft.+long_13272_13320_

I can't get any regular collar to fit him properly and seem comfortable for all day wear.


HTH.
Mary

 

[Bsmiz]

Good thread...Poppy is pulling and chewing the leash. I have tried the harness, and it works a bit, but she is still pulling. Biting the leash bothers me more, so what do you suggest for that?

You can try the bitter apple, though it didn't work for Quinn. He still bites. Maybe try giving Poppy something else to carry while on leash?

 

[Bsmiz]

Thanks all for the excellent feedback so far!

 

[R Taft]

Katy( nearly eight months) is being trained on a plain flat (1'') collar..Rogz. We use treat and the clicker ( the yes word) system. Out grounds, which are out in the open has over 40 dog on a training evening and she gets to quietly meet and greet as many dogs as possible before her session. But as soon as our class starts, she is a happy loose on leash girl by my side.
She has only ever been trained off leash at home and the flat collar. The other two are also on collar only now. though Annabelle had the check chain in the early days when she first came to us. They both work off leash only now. Come into the grounds on lead but they are off leash in classes.
Our grounds are very open, but we do have a 6' fence around the 5 acres. But the gate is always open. Off leash classes are at 8pm and on leash classes at 7. And this is several different days per week.
I truly believe that you can train with out.....But it is a lot of time and effort and also good timing and being very aware of the environment around you, so that you can see something is going to happen before it does. It is why i like our training system here of side by side training and opposite training and also big circle work. Dogs get so used to training with different dogs behind them, in front and side by side and passing one another.
It is also why I do not like free for all puppy classes, where they teach dogs to be rowdy with any dog they meet. I only like play sessions with control after there is some control. Anyway, I better get off my soapbox :lol:
The Prong collar is illegal in Australia....And check leads are on the way out in our Kennel clubs training program. I do not agree with that, because I believe all equipment has a place in training. But Mike and I are only two in a committee of 12
Also the Australian Kennel Club leans towards banning them, so we are expected to go with the flow in training. I can see many problems in the future with problem dogs. But it will open the doors wide open for Dog training schools. They will get a huge income.
We do a lot of town and village walking, especially on busy market days..........So that they get to see a lot. We have used the same system with our boys in the past and it has also worked with them. It is just initially constant training with lots of reward, lots of rewards ++++ for good behavior and happy times during training. Keep it fun, but accurate. Try not to reward bad behavior, so many people do and it and dogs have such good memory. That is why they train so easily
Ronnie

 

[ardeagold]

I use a prong when necessary. Don't like chokes because of the potential of tracheal damage. I always took a prong with me if there was going to be a possibility of a situation that might make the dog lunge, etc. I'd use it if necessary.

After a bit of time, however, and the dog is trained, you shouldn't need to use it.

Prongs are great on breeds that are more powerful than you are. It can keep them, and you, safe...but really, they're best suited for training, not "forever" use.

 

[Jorge's mum]

I have only ever used a gentle leader with Jorge and he walks beautifully, if he has wanted to pull for any reason I have been able to control him no problems he is 85kg newf 33inches at the shoulder - I am only small, he has been trained also but of course there may come a time when something is just too interesting which is were the gentle leader comes in, I prefer to use this above anything else and shall be using it on Stanley when he reaches 6mnths old

 

[HeidiPeterson]

I have used a prong collar when training Ben. He is strong and loves little dogs and people. Now that he is trained and older I use a martingale, but take a prong with me just in case.