Help!!
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TNeuf
Inactive Member
Hi Amy,
While we don't have our Newf yet (7 weeks and counting), I do know that we will not vaccinate him. We have three children (12, 8, and 2 years old) and none of our children have been vaccinated. I have done a lot of research in this area as it's a big decision to make and you really have to know why you're making it and feel comfortable with it.
There's not a natural remedy that will specifically guard your dog against X disease. There are homeopathics, nosodes, herbs, supplements etc... that can help him out with his immune system, but it's not a system of replacing X vaccine with X natural remedy. The most important thing to do is ensure your dog's overall health. Our children are fed, and always have been fed, an organic, whole foods diet with no processed crap. They are incredibly healthy, very rarely get sick, and have never seen a medical doctor (a naturopath a couple of times). I'm hoping, and I do believe, that this approach will also work for our pup. We already have our holistic vet lined up.
Once you research vaccines, you see that we have all been brain washed. There is no guarantee, even with them and the detriment they cause to the body is not worth the risk (in my opinion).
Tara
While we don't have our Newf yet (7 weeks and counting), I do know that we will not vaccinate him. We have three children (12, 8, and 2 years old) and none of our children have been vaccinated. I have done a lot of research in this area as it's a big decision to make and you really have to know why you're making it and feel comfortable with it.
There's not a natural remedy that will specifically guard your dog against X disease. There are homeopathics, nosodes, herbs, supplements etc... that can help him out with his immune system, but it's not a system of replacing X vaccine with X natural remedy. The most important thing to do is ensure your dog's overall health. Our children are fed, and always have been fed, an organic, whole foods diet with no processed crap. They are incredibly healthy, very rarely get sick, and have never seen a medical doctor (a naturopath a couple of times). I'm hoping, and I do believe, that this approach will also work for our pup. We already have our holistic vet lined up.
Once you research vaccines, you see that we have all been brain washed. There is no guarantee, even with them and the detriment they cause to the body is not worth the risk (in my opinion).
Tara
sarnewfie
New member
Hi amy
for three years i did nosodes, got mine from joy craig
mixed as directed to the tea.
after three years becouse we were working in sar at the time, in the fields with who knows what critters around, i decided to titer my guys to see if they still had protection. nope
not enough
so i switched to vaccinations once every three years
not sure anyone here can explain if nosodes really work.
for three years i did nosodes, got mine from joy craig
mixed as directed to the tea.
after three years becouse we were working in sar at the time, in the fields with who knows what critters around, i decided to titer my guys to see if they still had protection. nope
not enough
so i switched to vaccinations once every three years
not sure anyone here can explain if nosodes really work.
Sailorgirl
New member
Tara ...
Wow ... that's very interesting. I have a question though .. do you have problems with schools when it comes to not vaccinating your kids? Seems to me the gestapo was ready to get us if we were 3 weeks late getting a MMR vaccine and then they started threatening that we were going to get kicked out of school! Maybe that wouldn't have been that bad!
Wow ... that's very interesting. I have a question though .. do you have problems with schools when it comes to not vaccinating your kids? Seems to me the gestapo was ready to get us if we were 3 weeks late getting a MMR vaccine and then they started threatening that we were going to get kicked out of school! Maybe that wouldn't have been that bad!
Varmint
Inactive Member
okay - I've been holding my tongue on all this Vaccination information, and I am trying really hard to put my words correctly, as this is just my opinion and anyone can disagree with it as they like.
Tara - I can completely understand your decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate your children. There are a lot of pro's and con's to the situation, and I respect your decision. However, in this day and age I believe you are putting your childrens lives at risk. Many of the diseases that our kids are vaccinated for are never seen in our countries. Let say, small pocks as an example. North America does not have a problem with this disease because of all the vaccinating we did. It was vaccinating that made this disease go away. Now your children will probably never get in contact with disease, so why put their bodies through this right? Well, again my opinion only, you have stopped them from being world travelers. They will not have the option to go to many countries in this world because they will be at risk to the disease. Also, small pocks is a disease that many terrorists, home-made or abroad terrorists, can get there hands on. While most of us will just get a little sick, because are bodies have already built an immunity, people who have not been vaccinated could die. Your right, vaccinating does not prevent the disease, but it does help our bodies fight the disease. I'm wondering if in all the research, did the topic of live virus and killed virus come up? Once upon a time the medical proffession used what is called live virus vaccine. That created many problems. Bone loss density. Juvinile arthritis. Eye disorders etc. However with the killed virus there is allot less problems. Proof being the extended lives we enjoy today. Less than 1 percent of the population even get sick from the vaccine, and so far no long term affects have been noted. Now I know you can point me to several books and websites that will say there are long term affects, but remember, I can point you to many books and websites that prove otherwise. I have been personally contacted by the CDC (center for Disease control) and I am participating in their research on vaccinations. There have been problems with vaccinations and many medical institutions have recognized these problems and have vastly corrected them.
As for not vaccinating your dog. I do not agree with this at all. The reason being, where as your children will more than likely not come in contact with many of these diseases, your dog will. There are many stray animals out there that can/may come in contact with your pet. You cannot control the diseases of strays or wild animals. There was just recently a rabid coyote (I think coyote) that just bit a woman. ( I just heard it on FOX news a couple day ago, I will try to get more info as to where / and animal). When working as a vet tech I delt with many people who did not vaccinate. One woman in particular comes to mind. She literally cussed me out as I was trying to explain the benifit of Vaccines, especially since she had 8 dogs and was about to get her 9th. Well, her dogs contracted Parvo. 7 of her 9 dogs died. 5 of the 7 were adults. and 1 that lived was severaly disabled from the disease. If she had only vaccinated, the numbers would not have been so high. Now, I agree with running titers. That is the best thing that I have ever heard to do. There is no need to vaccinate if the dog still has an immunity to the disease. I am all for doing checks and balances before injecting medication that may not be needed. But many deaths, illnesses, and debilitating problems have been controlled by the use of vaccines.
Again, this is all just my opinion. I did not post this to say that anyone is a horrible person because they have done research and made a desicion that I do not agree with. I just wanted to post my opinion so that I can teach to some what I have learned, also to learn myself with the responses I may get from this. If I offended anyone, especially Tara since I used your post as an example, I appologize. That is not my intention. This is just something that I am passionate about.
to everyone!
Tara - I can completely understand your decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate your children. There are a lot of pro's and con's to the situation, and I respect your decision. However, in this day and age I believe you are putting your childrens lives at risk. Many of the diseases that our kids are vaccinated for are never seen in our countries. Let say, small pocks as an example. North America does not have a problem with this disease because of all the vaccinating we did. It was vaccinating that made this disease go away. Now your children will probably never get in contact with disease, so why put their bodies through this right? Well, again my opinion only, you have stopped them from being world travelers. They will not have the option to go to many countries in this world because they will be at risk to the disease. Also, small pocks is a disease that many terrorists, home-made or abroad terrorists, can get there hands on. While most of us will just get a little sick, because are bodies have already built an immunity, people who have not been vaccinated could die. Your right, vaccinating does not prevent the disease, but it does help our bodies fight the disease. I'm wondering if in all the research, did the topic of live virus and killed virus come up? Once upon a time the medical proffession used what is called live virus vaccine. That created many problems. Bone loss density. Juvinile arthritis. Eye disorders etc. However with the killed virus there is allot less problems. Proof being the extended lives we enjoy today. Less than 1 percent of the population even get sick from the vaccine, and so far no long term affects have been noted. Now I know you can point me to several books and websites that will say there are long term affects, but remember, I can point you to many books and websites that prove otherwise. I have been personally contacted by the CDC (center for Disease control) and I am participating in their research on vaccinations. There have been problems with vaccinations and many medical institutions have recognized these problems and have vastly corrected them.
As for not vaccinating your dog. I do not agree with this at all. The reason being, where as your children will more than likely not come in contact with many of these diseases, your dog will. There are many stray animals out there that can/may come in contact with your pet. You cannot control the diseases of strays or wild animals. There was just recently a rabid coyote (I think coyote) that just bit a woman. ( I just heard it on FOX news a couple day ago, I will try to get more info as to where / and animal). When working as a vet tech I delt with many people who did not vaccinate. One woman in particular comes to mind. She literally cussed me out as I was trying to explain the benifit of Vaccines, especially since she had 8 dogs and was about to get her 9th. Well, her dogs contracted Parvo. 7 of her 9 dogs died. 5 of the 7 were adults. and 1 that lived was severaly disabled from the disease. If she had only vaccinated, the numbers would not have been so high. Now, I agree with running titers. That is the best thing that I have ever heard to do. There is no need to vaccinate if the dog still has an immunity to the disease. I am all for doing checks and balances before injecting medication that may not be needed. But many deaths, illnesses, and debilitating problems have been controlled by the use of vaccines.
Again, this is all just my opinion. I did not post this to say that anyone is a horrible person because they have done research and made a desicion that I do not agree with. I just wanted to post my opinion so that I can teach to some what I have learned, also to learn myself with the responses I may get from this. If I offended anyone, especially Tara since I used your post as an example, I appologize. That is not my intention. This is just something that I am passionate about.
I think the titers are the greatest idea since sliced bread...my vet does not push any vaccines on my critters, but unless your are truly isolated you run the risk of some significant illnesses...I can certainly remember before the polio vaccine people who died or were significantly disabled, same for flu...I know of a lot more people who died of communicable diseases than had adverse reactions to vaccines. However, with titering, I think a lot of needless vaccines can be avoided. Nothing is 100 percent, but you can certainly tip the odds in your favor. Actually, I think that the newish Hepatitis A vaccine if virtually 100 percent...the only such vaccine.
bo'smom
New member
Thanks guys for your responses. Vaccinations continue to be something I'm still researching. It seems to me there are good arguements on both sides of the fence. IMHO at this point in time, I think vaccinating with killed vaccine & then doing yearly titers is the safest way to go. The trick is balancing the benefit of the vaccine vs. the risks associated with over vaccination. Along with that, boosting the immune system with the holistic methods Tara mentioned would be a good combination of allopathic & hollistic medicine.
Thank you Tara for explaining more about the holistic methods to me. I'm very new to this and would really like to learn more. For me, I think using a combination of eastern & western medicines & treatments is what I'd like to pursue. I feel there's a place for them both.
One last question...what are nosodes?
Thank you Tara for explaining more about the holistic methods to me. I'm very new to this and would really like to learn more. For me, I think using a combination of eastern & western medicines & treatments is what I'd like to pursue. I feel there's a place for them both.
One last question...what are nosodes?
TNeuf
Inactive Member
Hi there,
A nosode is a homeopathic preparation made from diseased 'matter'. As per homeopathic principles, there would be none of the actual disease left, but rather the 'energy' of whatever was being used. This is explained very simply, but if you do some research on Homeopathy, you'll find a lot of stuff that can explain it better.
Valerie, I wasn't offended by anything you wrote EXCEPT the part about me putting my child's lives at risk. I'm always surprised that someone can use such harsh statements towards parents that don't vaccinate, but surely, they wouldn't want me to tell them that THEY are putting their children's health and lives at risk by vaccinating??!!
I think it's important to remember that it would be much easier for us to have vaccinated our children. However, as a nutritionist, I look into EVERYTHING that I can do to maximize my children's health (physical, emotional, mental, spriritual) and to me this included researching vaccines. You're absolutely right, I can point you to a bunch of reference, studies, and medical literature to back up my points and you can do the same. I do not feel the need to defend any of my choices. I think the argument about stopping them from being world travellers is a little exaggerated. If they want to travel the world and they need a certain vaccine when they grow up, they can get it! By then there fully developed immune systems will be more able to handle it. I have friends that avoided vaccines for the first couple of years and then selectively vaccinated their children with INDIVIDUAL vaccines. I think a lot of us believe that we MUST vaccinate according to the pharmaceutical companies mandate (which keeps changing by the way - notice how the flu vaccine was only for certain members of the population until they discovered that their supposed "short fall" was actually a "surplus" and then they decided EVERYONE should have it.Hmmm...).
There's more concerns about vaccines rather than just whether they're live or inactivated. The preservatives in a vaccine include thimerosal (a mercury derivative - there is no safe level of mercury), aluminum, and formaldehyde. They use formaldehyde for the inactive form of the vaccine.
Vaccines have only been widely used since the 1940s. WE are the experiment! Do we live longer? Yes, according to statistics we do, but what we should be looking at is are we FUNCTIONALLY living longer? Disease is rampant. Everyone is getting diabetes, autism, ADHD, cancer, auto-immune diseases......the list is endless. There was a study done last year that linked vaccines to autism because of the thimerosal in them.
I'm sorry to go on. It's hard to 'hear' someone's tone in an email so I'd just like to say that mine is a friendly, non-argumentative one
. I know that we want to do what's right and I respect that in every living soul - even if it's different from what I believe.
One last thing about my kids going to school. In Canada we can sign a "Statement of Conscientious Beliefs" that has to be notarized. It's just a form that basically says I'm not vaccinating my children due to religious or conscientious beliefs. It then gets notarized and kept on our kid's file. That's it. I do have the odd public health nurse that tries to get me into a debate every now and then, but I've learned to simply say, "I will read your literature, if you will read mine". That offer is always declined. It surprises me that the nurses and doctors get their information from the pharmaceutical companies and most are not willing to go beyond that (although that seems to be changing a little bit).
Sorry to go on, I just wanted to respond to what was posted.
Tara
A nosode is a homeopathic preparation made from diseased 'matter'. As per homeopathic principles, there would be none of the actual disease left, but rather the 'energy' of whatever was being used. This is explained very simply, but if you do some research on Homeopathy, you'll find a lot of stuff that can explain it better.
Valerie, I wasn't offended by anything you wrote EXCEPT the part about me putting my child's lives at risk. I'm always surprised that someone can use such harsh statements towards parents that don't vaccinate, but surely, they wouldn't want me to tell them that THEY are putting their children's health and lives at risk by vaccinating??!!
I think it's important to remember that it would be much easier for us to have vaccinated our children. However, as a nutritionist, I look into EVERYTHING that I can do to maximize my children's health (physical, emotional, mental, spriritual) and to me this included researching vaccines. You're absolutely right, I can point you to a bunch of reference, studies, and medical literature to back up my points and you can do the same. I do not feel the need to defend any of my choices. I think the argument about stopping them from being world travellers is a little exaggerated. If they want to travel the world and they need a certain vaccine when they grow up, they can get it! By then there fully developed immune systems will be more able to handle it. I have friends that avoided vaccines for the first couple of years and then selectively vaccinated their children with INDIVIDUAL vaccines. I think a lot of us believe that we MUST vaccinate according to the pharmaceutical companies mandate (which keeps changing by the way - notice how the flu vaccine was only for certain members of the population until they discovered that their supposed "short fall" was actually a "surplus" and then they decided EVERYONE should have it.Hmmm...).
There's more concerns about vaccines rather than just whether they're live or inactivated. The preservatives in a vaccine include thimerosal (a mercury derivative - there is no safe level of mercury), aluminum, and formaldehyde. They use formaldehyde for the inactive form of the vaccine.
Vaccines have only been widely used since the 1940s. WE are the experiment! Do we live longer? Yes, according to statistics we do, but what we should be looking at is are we FUNCTIONALLY living longer? Disease is rampant. Everyone is getting diabetes, autism, ADHD, cancer, auto-immune diseases......the list is endless. There was a study done last year that linked vaccines to autism because of the thimerosal in them.
I'm sorry to go on. It's hard to 'hear' someone's tone in an email so I'd just like to say that mine is a friendly, non-argumentative one
One last thing about my kids going to school. In Canada we can sign a "Statement of Conscientious Beliefs" that has to be notarized. It's just a form that basically says I'm not vaccinating my children due to religious or conscientious beliefs. It then gets notarized and kept on our kid's file. That's it. I do have the odd public health nurse that tries to get me into a debate every now and then, but I've learned to simply say, "I will read your literature, if you will read mine". That offer is always declined. It surprises me that the nurses and doctors get their information from the pharmaceutical companies and most are not willing to go beyond that (although that seems to be changing a little bit).
Sorry to go on, I just wanted to respond to what was posted.
Tara
bo'smom
New member
Tara & Sar, thanks for clearing up the nosode question for me. I will check it out further.
Tara, I would like to take you up on your offer to look at your literature. Could you give me some websites to check out or books to read? Thanks!
Val, could you do the same thing for me too? I'd like to look more at both sides of the issue. Thanks to you too.
[ 02-23-2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: bo'smom ]
Tara, I would like to take you up on your offer to look at your literature. Could you give me some websites to check out or books to read? Thanks!
Val, could you do the same thing for me too? I'd like to look more at both sides of the issue. Thanks to you too.
[ 02-23-2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: bo'smom ]
NoahsCove
Inactive Member
valerie, do they give any children the smallpox vaccine now-a-days ? i thought they stopped giving it to children and that we are actually low in supply of that vaccine....i thought only soldiers and health care workers get that vaccine ? as for us, as older adults, i believe we aren't immune to smallpox anymore even if we had that vaccine as youngsters....i believe the smallpox they've found in the world (that terrorists could use, God forbid) is a mutated strain that differs from the kind we were vaccinated against as children many moons ago. as adults we would need a booster to be protected now.
there is also a question about over vaccinating children (multiple vaccines given at one time) causing autism.
perhaps the solution can be found in a balance between the two. not under or over vaccinating our children or our furkids.....
it's my personal belief that if you decide to vaccinate your children it should be done in single vaccines and not 3 or 4 vaccines given to a child all at the same time.
i also think, as mentioned above, that for furkids titers are the best thing since sliced bread.
although the "natural rearing" website is partially down/broken...i still think they have some interesting articles available on vaccinating furkids http://www.naturalrearing.com (food for thought anyway as it's always good to hear both sides
there is also a question about over vaccinating children (multiple vaccines given at one time) causing autism.
perhaps the solution can be found in a balance between the two. not under or over vaccinating our children or our furkids.....
it's my personal belief that if you decide to vaccinate your children it should be done in single vaccines and not 3 or 4 vaccines given to a child all at the same time.
i also think, as mentioned above, that for furkids titers are the best thing since sliced bread.
although the "natural rearing" website is partially down/broken...i still think they have some interesting articles available on vaccinating furkids http://www.naturalrearing.com (food for thought anyway as it's always good to hear both sides
NoahsCove
Inactive Member
p.s. here's the direct link to some of the articles which i think includes info on nosodes as well:
Natural Rearing Information on Vaccines and Nosodes
Natural Rearing Information on Vaccines and Nosodes
TNeuf
Inactive Member
Hi Amy,
Well, this is a Canadian site, but it has very good information, both scientific and clinical. It has stuff about laws that pertain to Canada, but I think you were looking for more general stuff and it has a lot of that along with some great links. http://64.41.99.118/vran/
It's the Vaccine Risk Awareness Network
That's the only vaccine site I visit as all of my literature is on hard copy. I have binders full of studies, stories, vaccine injuries etc... You could do a search here www.mercola.com. Just go to that page and type in vaccines. Dr. Mercola has a zillion pages and studies you can snoop through.
Good luck to you!
Tara
Well, this is a Canadian site, but it has very good information, both scientific and clinical. It has stuff about laws that pertain to Canada, but I think you were looking for more general stuff and it has a lot of that along with some great links. http://64.41.99.118/vran/
It's the Vaccine Risk Awareness Network
That's the only vaccine site I visit as all of my literature is on hard copy. I have binders full of studies, stories, vaccine injuries etc... You could do a search here www.mercola.com. Just go to that page and type in vaccines. Dr. Mercola has a zillion pages and studies you can snoop through.
Good luck to you!
Tara
Newfs Forever
New member
I cannot refute you folks that have been in some type of medical field, nor would I want to. I do not have the knowledge or wherewithal.
The only thing I can say is that my kids do NOT get vaccinations. They are titered. They are fed a raw diet which I control. They do not get hearguard, etc., nor do they wear any type of collars that emit chemicals into their bodies.
Dex turned 8 yo on 1/23. My holistic vet can't believe how good he looks. He doesn't even have a white mug. Now, I am not diminishing the fact that a good set of genes plays into the factor.
But, again, you have to do what you are comfortable with. If you are going to stress yourself continually, then don't do it.
For me, he has been through so many different types of testing, etc., that now finally he is really in good health. (Of course, keeping my fingers crossed. I am always afraid, when I open my BIG mouth.)
And I am sure that if your furheimers are subjected to various critters (infectious stuff) you may have to take alternative methods. There are a whole lot of variables. But, I try to keep these guys clean of toxins as best I can.
I guess "ya just gotta do what ya gotta do"!
Sue
The only thing I can say is that my kids do NOT get vaccinations. They are titered. They are fed a raw diet which I control. They do not get hearguard, etc., nor do they wear any type of collars that emit chemicals into their bodies.
Dex turned 8 yo on 1/23. My holistic vet can't believe how good he looks. He doesn't even have a white mug. Now, I am not diminishing the fact that a good set of genes plays into the factor.
But, again, you have to do what you are comfortable with. If you are going to stress yourself continually, then don't do it.
For me, he has been through so many different types of testing, etc., that now finally he is really in good health. (Of course, keeping my fingers crossed. I am always afraid, when I open my BIG mouth.)
And I am sure that if your furheimers are subjected to various critters (infectious stuff) you may have to take alternative methods. There are a whole lot of variables. But, I try to keep these guys clean of toxins as best I can.
I guess "ya just gotta do what ya gotta do"!
Sue
Varmint
Inactive Member
Tara - I did not take your response as bad at all. I do owe you an apology however. You are right, saying putting your childrens life at risk is a little harsh and I should have chosed my words more carefully. Many vaccinations can be given as adults with no problems, however many vaccinations that we give our children, measles, mumps to name a few do not have full affect when given as adults. That is why the CDC still choses to vaccinate children. As for vaccination causing autism. I have read in a artcle published by the Mayo Clinic (a hospital not a pharmacuticle company) that autism is directly related to genetics. They have even isolated which gene that causes it. So I wonder how a vaccine can cause a gene to mutate? I also read in another article saying that no mercury derividive is used in vaccinations any more. Now I cannot remember where I read that artcle, so that is more a question as to where I can do research on this not an accusation of any kind.
Elle - they do not give small pox vaccination anymore, your right. But as you see, I was only using it as an example. You can replace small pox with rubella, measles, mumps, polio, any other disease that children are vaccinated for. The reason we no longer vaccinate for small pox is because vaccinations have all but eliminated the disease. There are stains of the virus that terrists can get that are not covered by the vaccine, but those strains are easily controlled by the use of several antibiotic so the death toll is drastically reduced.
Amy - The CDC has wonderfull information on the subject. You can call them and request information on vaccines. There website is www.cdc.gov
Elle - they do not give small pox vaccination anymore, your right. But as you see, I was only using it as an example. You can replace small pox with rubella, measles, mumps, polio, any other disease that children are vaccinated for. The reason we no longer vaccinate for small pox is because vaccinations have all but eliminated the disease. There are stains of the virus that terrists can get that are not covered by the vaccine, but those strains are easily controlled by the use of several antibiotic so the death toll is drastically reduced.
Amy - The CDC has wonderfull information on the subject. You can call them and request information on vaccines. There website is www.cdc.gov
