Thank God for Texas' Sen Cornyn!

[Windancer]

you know....CMDT's list was a purposeful exaduration...however.....It is a very real possibility that things could 'go south' in a hurry...for a variety of reasons that I could list...MY SIL works for a very large trucking company...He monitors trucks by computer during his whole job shift..(They are all now connected to satilite) He says people do not realize how quickly there would be no food in the stores if the highways got clogged... for a number of reasons.. As far as the dissenters, They are not all 'conservatives'...There are alot of democrates.....if they were organized, as accused, there would be lots better ways to pull this off other than raw anger,,,,,,They should take lessons from Obamas army , 'Acorn'..which seem to have free reign to do anything...and with government money....that no one knows what goes for...or why they get it ????? You like ??? Give these citizens a break.....they just are mad at the government spending and need for controll...nothing new....I remember the Vietnam Era,,,,and you do too Ina......funny how if we agree with it it is OK,,,,,

 

[Windancer]

you know.....I am just FLABERGASTED as to HOW any good citizen could think it was OK...for the government to ask that dissenters be reported......this is AMAZING to me....

 

[SunnyD]

...When has a whitehouse had it's own press corps ? When has a news media (CNN) owned by GE, strongly supported an administration, then been rewarded by being appointed to a high post, and given billions of bailout money...at the same time being convicted of fraud? ..........

Just summoned the courage to look at this thread.


CNN is not owned by GE, NBC is owned by GE.

When mistakes like this are written, it makes me question what else is not factually correct.

The mountains in Oregon are not for sale!

 

[ina/puusty]

Psssssssssssssssst..Tricia.. So I do not own a mountain..but I have beach sand pails..n Lots of shovels, AND good valley loam..so we could arrange to have one on the northern-most portion of my farm..by about 2023..? Oh..you were serious..sniff..then ok.. I shall hide the pails until a real rabble-rouser comes along....(Oh Julie???? ina n HB n Kesa

 

[Windancer]

OF course, Tricia....sorry... I mis quoted.....but the fact remains...You would think it was/could be CNN for the liberal support and non reporting you see there.
INA??? You think I am a rebel rouser ????? LOL.... so..You think it is OK to tattle to the gov?? OK save the shovels and etc. (smile)

 

[markoc]

Over the last 3 days I read the entire Health Care Bill. 1000 pages! On page 647 it says the government will be able to euthanize stupid poeple.

 

[KodysGrandma]

The thing I have found most interesting about reporting on the Town Hall dissession is the innuendo that ANYONE there must be a puppet of the Republican party. Now I grant you I am a registered Republican, have been my whole life except for the years as a registered Conservative in NY during the James and William Buckley era. I've been a State Committeewoman, the head of the 1st Congressional District for the state party and the Regan delegate to the National Convention, all before 1980. Then I went to work for the federal government and under the Hatch Act was not allowed to take part in partisan politics (so I didn't). Thus I have NOT been active since then.

If I show up at a Town Hall in opposition to the health care/reform/whatever label they put on it --WILL I be indentified as a Republican party puppet. East or west coast, any major city, probably. Won't happen here for two reasons. 1- We have no town meetings coming up as opposition is pretty solid in the range of 80% and 2- media generally less inclined to talk in those terms. Would I consider myself a puppet, absolutely not. Why- I don't think the party is doing a very good job of articulating the conservative position and they're not my favorite people these days because of it.

Over my years in politics it seemed that anytime I went to a meeting and then read the report in the major media I had to wonder if we had been at the same meeting. My personal experience is that in general the national media is NOT very accurate and way too inflamatory. I didn't agree with FDR on much but his view of the media- "A plague on all your houses" pretty much matches mine.

 

[markoc]

What is the conservative position? Here's your chance to articulate.

 

[Windancer]

..That is the byword phrase of all liberals....."What is YOUR plan..?" We may not have a complete plan....yet....but neither do you.....you want to pass it anyway...What we DON"T want is any more government in our lives, and no BIG government takeovers...We don't want the government taking care of us....nor do we want to take care of a host of other people just because we worked hard and made a buck.As far as insurance reform....there are many things that could be put into place ( like an open national option..not just buying in your state)other than a government run one payer system...I know, I know, 'that's not what Obama is saying..' yes it is...he just said it might take 10 or 15 years to get there.....Lot's of us DO believe it is his ultimate goal.. Nothing should be a suprise. He said everything very clearly in his campeign. I really wish you HAD read the bill Mark.....at least someone read it. It is insanity to pass something that no one knows what is in it.......and from the analysis I have read, it is pretty scarry..But then..not having read it myself it would not be fair to quote it....or would it? Even our politicians are doing that....!!

 

[markoc]

Have you read the bill? Julie, we have a serious problem with the healthcare system. You yourself have stated in this thread that this is true.

I am NOT against health care reform..I really don't think anyone is....I am against a single payer system, which is Obamas stated direction.....I am against certain provisions of the bill .

So if you're opposed to "certain provisions", which ones? I don't know how you'll answer this question since you haven't read the bill. Which parts of the bill would you keep? And if you're opposed to a single payor system, are you willing to give up your Medicare and private pay? Given your stated medical history-you'd be denied coverage. It's not even an optio for you. YOU NEED the govt for any insurance. Your complaints about rationing are ridiculous. Rationing is happening right now-courtesy of the insurance companies. So are you willing to give up your Medicare, which is a Governemnet run single payor system? That you're here bashing a govt run single payor system doesn't seem to make sense to me since it's the only insurance for which you qualify!

Perhaps if you all offered some, (any!)solution other than we oppose all things Democratic and offered an alternative plan-you'd have some credibility.

 

[Charliesmom]

Sorry, but you are wrong Mark. Medicare is NOT a single payer system. Most people who are on Medicare are also on a supplemental insurance because Medicare does not pay for everything and only pays 80% of what they approve. Also, people who are on Medicare have the CHOICE to choose to be on Medicare or go with another carrier. I think the reason so many of we conservatives are against Obama's Universal Health Care is because we don't want the government choosing for us. We feel as adults we have the ability to choose our health care coverage like we choose what we want to eat, what we want to drive and what house we want to live in. There are a lot of people out there who cannot afford to buy a house. Does that mean that the government should come in and dictate that everyone deserves a house and therefore they, the government is going to do this by choosing for EVERYONE the house they can live in? That way it will make house purchasing much less expensive and will be for everyone.

I know that is kind of a silly example, but for us conservatives it's important that WE choose our own doctor's and make our own health care choices. We don't need the government making this choice for us.

So you liberals belittle us when you try to make that we are all crazy. That we are acting like the sky is falling. To us this is VERY important and all the laughing behind your hands are not going to change that.

 

[Windancer]

Mark...Debbie is right...I pay a premium every month for a "part B" coverage...I could choose not to buy it and pay out of pocket.....but seriously Mark, at my age, being 70 in 6 months...I don't think I would qualify for alot of proceedures since I should consider it "a part of aging"...In England you can't ge treated for progressive retinol atrophe untill you are totally blind in one eye....it is too expensive...THAT is what I do not want....You can go to Fox right now.if you dare, and listen to a great bi partisan discussion on a Huckabee special....and to say I am against Democrats is rediculous... I was apalled at the treatment of Clinto by Republicans, and lots of other things....I am just against socialism and big government, and handouts, and high taxes. I pre paid for my social secutiy and medicare...

 

[Windancer]

Debbie..that is really not such a silly example....I can see that 15 years down the road if this continues

 

[KodysGrandma]

For anyone who can get to it there is a very "Tongue in Cheek" article on the front section of the Weekend Journal section of the Wall Street JOurnal today called Man vs. Mutt, written by a British doctor , detailing the differences between how a dog in Britain gets health care versus a person. However, it is not all sarcasm and he does make some very interesting comparison to health care in various other parts of Europe but I was especially impressed by the final paragraph----

"And what I want, at least for that part of my time that I spend in England, is to be a dog. I also want, wherever I am, the Americans to go on paying for the great majority of the world's progress in medical research and technological innovations by the preposterous expense of their system: for it is a truth universally acknowledged that American clinical research has long reigned supreme so overall the American health care system must have been doing something right. The rest of the world soon adopts the progress without the pain of having to pay for it."

What will Congress and obama do to that clinical research as an "unintended consequence" of their fiddling with the system via a bill they haven't read and couldn't comprehend if they did?

 

[ina/puusty]

Did I just read this portion correctly: that congress and obama "couldn't COMPREHEND if they did"..? Please do..rethink that bit..truely. ina n HB n Kesa

 

[Windancer]

Ina....they didn't write it....and one congressman all ready said he would need a team of lawyers to understand it even if he did read it...I'm with Emmie.....Why don't YOU try to read it....It is online...somewhere..

 

[KodysGrandma]

Ina- Have you seen the little Internet anecdote thing making it's way around detailing the "geographical blunders" of some members of Congress? There are probably a very few who could understand it, but the damn thing is deliberately written to obfuscate and avoid clarity. They don't want to take the time and they don't want anyone to be able to figure it out. They want to rely on "Trust Us". I wouldn't trust that overall pack of thieves to divy up the spoils evenly. Most of the country apparently agrees with me, look at THEIR ratings.

 

[markoc]

Also, people who are on Medicare have the CHOICE to choose to be on Medicare or go with another carrier. I think the reason so many of we conservatives are against Obama's Universal Health Care is because we don't want the government choosing for us. We feel as adults we have the ability to choose our health care coverage like we choose what we want to eat, what we want to drive and what house we want to live in.

There's nothing in the bill that forces you to choose anything. What is added is a public option (similar to Medicare) that would compete with private insurance. It doesn't eliminate private insurance or choice. There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding on this point. No one wants to eliminate private insurance. I have private insurance-the issue is how to control spiraling costs. The insurance industry opposes this. They like things the way they are. Apparently so do conservatives since they can't explain how they are going to change the system.

I pre paid for my social secutiy and medicare...

No, you didn't. When you paid in, the money was used to pay for the retirees at the time. So those that are working now support current retirees and Medicare beneficiaries. In other words, I'm supporting you. It's a common but mistaken assumption, we have a social contract (socialism!) in which we trust that if we do pay in now, those that follow will support us during our retirement.

 

[Charliesmom]

No Mark, there would be NO competition because they government would make sure of that. If you are an employer and decided to go with private insurance instead of the government plan you would be fined. If you are an individual and wanted to go with a non government plan you would be required to pay at LEAST 10% more.

What do you think is going to come of the competition?

By the government abusing their power they would drive all competition out, since how can one compete against someone as powerful as the government.

I think if you really looked at it without your pre-desire to love anything coming from this administration you would see this. Although, I won't hold my breath waiting to hear you say it. At least give it some thought.

Also, I think you are being a little obtuse telling Julie that she is not paying for her Medicare. You know she paid into this. Whether it was for then or for now, the bottom line is that she DID pay for it.

 

[markoc]

No Mark, there would be NO competition because they government would make sure of that. If you are an employer and decided to go with private insurance instead of the government plan you would be fined. If you are an individual and wanted to go with a non government plan you would be required to pay at LEAST 10% more.

Links, please.

Take yourself back to November-Obama and Democrats won. Conservatives lost. Big. Largely because people want and need healthcare reform. They know they won't get it from conservatives because they have no proposals (that I'm aware of.) So I'm not alone in my desire to see healthcare reform legislation pass. Large majorities want reform. I will admit that this bill is currently losing (barely) in opinion polls but the debate is not over. So we'll see.

Your assertions are untrue. Convince me otherwise-saying govt "would make sure of that" is bullsham. Saying it doesn't make it so.

It seems you're arguing there no changes that need to be made? Is this so? What changes do conservatives want to make to health care? This is the fourth time in this thread I've asked. What would conservative health reform look like? Why are you afraid to answer this question?