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[brookside]

Hi
My Pearl just had a litter of 5 puppies by scheduled c-section. I knew this was her last litter and I planned spaying her later after her uterus was less engorged...3 months or later. The vet told me that her uterus was in bad disarray, some infection from 2 puppies that didn't make it, a herniation (don't understand that), and paper thin in places. I told him my wishes but he coerced me into it.
Well, needless to say, after she woke up from the surgery, he sent her home immediately. (CSection and spay ended at around 12:30 and I was home at 1). I put the puppies on her to nurse and about an hour later, she got up and when she did frank, red blood was leaking out of her. I immediately phoned the vet who was there by 2_30. He told me that it was christmas eve, it would take more than 1 person to work at this and he had guests coming over soon so I was togo to the emergency clinic in appleton...normally 1.5 hours away.
I left at 3 and got there at 6:30 because the roads were snow covered fromthe storm we had had all day. By then Pearl was near death...PCV (packed cell volume..indicating RBC's) was 13 and normally it is to be 33. I was asked if I just wanted to let her go but I could not. at 9, the surgeon came in, operated on her and corrected the problem. (the cauterized blood vessels were surtured yet but were massively leaking due to pressure). She also received 4 units of blood. She is still recovering there. I have so far spent $4000. money I don't have.
My questions are this:
1. Would you stop payment on the first vet??
2. IS THERE ANY NEW MOTHER OUT THERE FOR MY 5 PUPPIES TO NURSE ON?? I live in Wisconsin Rapids Wisconsin and know no one with any puppies. I have bottle fed a litter of 7 (my first litter 15 years ago.) It took me a LONG time to get back into having girls..this is now my LAST litter)...I am keeping a boy. (I have bred only 5 litters in my 30 years of Newfies).
If there is anyone out there, I would sure appreciate your kindness. My Pearl may be able to nurse but I don't know...the repro vet told me to just let her rest. I would like advise on that too. Would you let Pearl nurse? The medications, pain killers and AB's are all puppy friendly according to the vets at the emergency clinic and she is basically free of anesthesia now.
thanks....I am a broken woman. What a fool I am
I just need to know what to do. I need help and advise from

 

[Sun Valley]

Becky,

So sorry to hear what is going on...did the puppies get any colostrum? I have a litter but unfortunately your too far away...have you contacted Kathy G? I know she has some litters.

Lou Ann

 

[noblenewf]

Becky,
I don't have any advice as I've never raised a litter of pups but I teared up reading your post. I can hear the desperation and panic in your post...I want you to know I will pray for Pearl and her puppies that everyone is OK and healthy. I hope you find someone to help.

 

[nowhavethreebears]

Becky,
I am so sorry to hear this. I know how you have looked forward to this litter. Will be praying for Pearl and her babies.
Herniation usually refers to a tear. Did she have a tear in the uterus? If so, vet number one probably did the right thing by doing the section immediately. If she had ruptured, it would have been much worse.
Though sending her home so soon was not wise, IMO. She and the pups should have stayed there longer. That soon after surgery, she is not out of the anesthesia yet. It sounds like he just did not want to be bothered with taking care of her.
When he came back in he should have called someone in and taken care of her, instead of sending her somewhere else with her bleeding out. You were lucky she made it there.
I would ask the advice of an attorney. Most will give you a consult free. Most will tell you to pay, though, unless you can prove gross negligence or malpractice. Though it does sound like negligence to me.
How old are the pups now? If they were able to get some mom's milk within the first day they got some antibodies from her, and can probably go on formula. If they weren't able to get anything, they will probably need antibody "booster shots".
Is there some way you can put out a general call for a nursing mom? Do you belong to your local kennel club? If so, contact some members and put a call out. Even if you don't belong, ask anyway. Someone might be able to help you.
Will be thinking of you. Please keep us updated on Pearl and her pups.

 

[Windancer]

Boy..I'll tell you what..any vet that refused to see my dog under those circumstances would catch my rath.!!! I have had a section and spay at the same time without concequences, so it can be done....but he should have definitley taken her back in and fixed the problem....especially with those road conditions...I would certainly be on the phone to him first thing in the AM,, and ask him what he intends to do about it ?????..and I would call a lawyer.....unless he agrees to reverse all charges, and help with the final charges... The puppies will do fine for a few days on 'first born'..the replacer with colestrum....the mother can probably nurse after a rest and regaining her strength...I hope they used good sutures on her...just IMHO

 

[Lisa@Caeles Hills]

Oh Becky, I have been praying so hard for Pearl since Wendy called me last night looking for Nursing dogs. I'm so glad to hear she's going to make it! You know I'm not experienced at all in these things but that first vet should have rushed back in! Also, would it do her some good maybe to try and nurse and help get her spirits back up? What about her nursing only part of the feedings? I wish I could be of help but will just keep praying for her and the puppies. God Bless and hang in there! Lisa

 

[wrknnwf]

Becky have you contacted the regional club up there? Someone there may be able to help.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

Sorry to hear this happened but it should work out. I would not worry about the drugs or anesthesia for the pups, as the emergency vets knew she could be nursing and would use drugs that are ok for pups. So, I would try to let the pups nurse a little and see how it goes. It would be good for the pups and might work well for Pearl too. If you see she can't nurse, you could see if your vet or others have a wet nurse in your area. It does not have to be a newf. Regional club members may be able to help too. You could try to let the pups nurse a little then finish with a bottle. Do you have others that can help bottle feed if necessary?
As for the first vet, I would be annoyed, to put it mildly. There should have been another vet that was a back up or he could have referred you to a closer alternative.

 

[brookside]

Thanks for the concern and advise. I have people looking for wet nurses and alternatives (porties, goldens but none around here). I purchased colostrum (spun down plasma) and the puppies are getting that sub-q for a total of 16 ml. Kathy Griffin just called and gave me what looks to be a good formula for the puppies so my friend will tube them until Saturday then I'll take them home....I first need to get Pearl settled in. The doctors at the clinic said Pearl probably doesn't have milk but I think I'll let the babies try it any way....what the heck. I you guys have ANY other suggestions, please feel free to call me 715-421-1462 or cell 715-213-3375. I totally appreciate your advise and concern. I saw the puppies today and they really look fat and sassy so at least that is in my favor....if anyone had ever had this happen before, is there still a chance I may lose a puppy due to bottle feeding or something???? Like they weaken or something?? How much time should I allot to bottle feeding 5 little ones? I am fortunate that I work 4 hours, have a 2 hour lunch and work 4 more hours. And then I only work Tuesday and Thursday in the PM...AM is open. I do have people set up to babysit and watch the puppies too...I'll be the main feeder though. I think I'll let Pearl lick them when they are done eating though to stimulate their elimination processes. IS THERE ANYTHING I AM MISSING??????? GOD BLESS YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVISE.

 

[charityd]

I don't have any advice, but I am sending lots of good energy your way. :hugs:

 

[Windancer]

Sounds like you have it under controll...I would sure give the bitch a chance,,,The only danger with bottle/tube feeding is getting milk in the lungs. I would hold them upside down and pat their back after feeding..gently of course...I once had a bitch that got mastitis, I was teaching school...I tubed them in the AM, rushed home at lunch and tubed, and three times at night...They all survived, miraculously...Tubing is hard to do on a new born...glad you have an experienced friend...They can start lapping gruel at two weeks...I would be interested in Kathys formula....

 

[Windancer]

I just thought of something....I saw a few months ago in a kennel supply store, a furry fake dog, with four or five little bottles that went inside it, it was self warming. It was made for feeding foster puppies....wonder if you could get one ? I thought "what an invention"...wish I had gotten it...

 

[R Taft]

I have never raised a newf litter from day one, but i have raised two GDS litters and they both did well and all pups survived. the main thing is to get a team of helpers to do the frequent feeding required, because it will be too hard for one person. We had three people each time and did shifts. Both those GSD mom's had died...............I would truly try to at least part feed the pups with Mom. Even if she is just there for comfort/warmth
As for your vet..................What I would like to say is not printable. Christmas parties indeed..................He is a vet first and foremost and the dog was his patient. I find it truly unbelievable and sad. All my best wishes :hugs: and prayers for dear Pearl and ofcourse you, Take care

 

[ardeagold]

I can't add anything, but I just wanted to say I'm so sorry you and Pearl have had to go through this horror.

I'm so happy the pups are doing well. Hopefully, they'll continue to do so. And...I'm sending lots of good thoughts to Pearl as well.

I'd be SO livid with that Vet .... however, don't stop payment on that check. He did provide the "service" (even as lousy as it was, per your description...and life-threatening to Pearl, due to no follow-up), therefore legally, he's owed the money, I believe. Sometimes stopping payment can be considered writing a bad check, if he wanted to do so, and then you could be charged with a criminal offense. (Depends on your laws there). So call an attorney before doing that.

I would call him and discuss this with him...and then I'd ask what he's going to do to compensate you for his lack of professionalism if you honestly feel that's the case, after discussing it with him.

If, after the discussion, and you still feel he's been unprofessional, and he balks at repaying you for the entire cost of the ER, then I would write a LONG, fully descriptive letter to him, copy the Exec. Dir of the Wisconsin VMA (and add a cover letter that you're filing a complaint), and tell him (your Vet) in that letter that you expect HIM to recompense you for the expenses incurred at the ER Clinic (and any other expenses that will follow, should Pearl need more care...or if the puppies do as a result of this). Follow up with a letter from your attorney.

Here's the contact for the WI VMA:

State veterinary medical association

Wisconsin Veterinary Medical Association
Ms. Kim Brown Pokorny, Executive Director
301 N. Broom Street
Madison, WI 53703
Phone: 608-257-3665
Fax: 608-257-8989
E-mail: wvma@wvma.org or kpokorny@wvma.org
Web site: www.wvma.org


http://www.avma.org/advocacy/state/resources/wi.asp

If you go to the link above, then click on VE 7 - Standards of Practice, and bring up the PDF File, it covers this:

(4) “Gross negligence” means a gross, serious or grave degree
of negligence as compared to less serious or more ordinary acts of
negligence.
(5) “Standard of care” means diagnostic procedures and
modes of treatment considered by the veterinary profession to be
within the scope of current, acceptable veterinary medical practice

Based on your post, it appears that he practiced gross negligence, and did NOT give acceptable standards of care, however, that would be something for an attorney to determine.

Print out that file....and have it handy when you talk to him. It might convince him you're serious.

{{{Hugs}}}} to sweet Pearl and those babies.

 

[4ondafloor]

I am so sorry that this happened to you. I don't know what to say except that I am so sorry. You and Pearl along with all the little puppies and in my thoughts and I hope everything turns out OK.
That vet? Hmmm...I believe that I'd be having the talk that Donna suggested! Sounds like good advice! Keep us posted please...:grouphug:

 

[ozzysma]

becky i have no knowledge to help just sending prayers to pearl and her puppies!! and prayers of strength to you! you seem to have the knowledge and the contacts to make it through this crisis, but i would definately follow through with dealing with the negligent vet. i am also hoping reading this will show anyone thinking of breeding their female for that "just one litter" or thinking how much they can make with puppies!!! that it is not that easy at all!! nightmares can and do happen . breeding is not as easy as letting your female get pregnant, leave it to the pro's who know what they are doing!!(this comment is not aimed at you becky!)

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

Becky -

So sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon complication when a spay is done at the same time a c-section, planned that way or not. Also Unfortunately, medical care, both human & veterinary has become more business and less about caring.

I have a few friends that have lost their bitch right after a c-section, both with a spay and with out a spayed. With the loving care that was provided this puppies did well. I am sure you puppies will thrive your care.

 

[Ivoryudx]

Oh I'm so sorry this is happening, but am very relieved to know that Pearl seems to have turned a corner and is doing okay? Is she still at the emergency clinic, or do you have her home yet? She's been through so much, and I'm sure she just wants to be home. Five babies, wow, it sounds like you have your work cut out for you tubing and bottle feeding. On a happier note, how many girls and boys, you said you visited them?

Sadly, this is always the risk when breeding. Personally, I would take the Repro Vets advise and just let her rest and not nurse. It can take up to three days for milk to come in after a c-section, so at the very least I'd give her that time to build up a little strength. She and her puppies are lucky to be alive, with the description of her uterus condition.

IF I'm reading your post right, as much as I'd like to say fight this bill, I don't think the first Vet really did anything wrong. Maybe his sutures didn't hold, but that may not be anything he had control of.

brookside wrote:

My Pearl just had a litter of 5 puppies by scheduled c-section. I knew this was her last litter and I planned spaying her later after her uterus was less engorged...3 months or later. The vet told me that her uterus was in bad disarray, some infection from 2 puppies that didn't make it, a herniation (don't understand that), and paper thin in places. I told him my wishes but he coerced me into it.
Well, needless to say, after she woke up from the surgery, he sent her home immediately. (CSection and spay ended at around 12:30 and I was home at 1). I put the puppies on her to nurse and about an hour later, she got up and when she did frank, red blood was leaking out of her. I immediately phoned the vet who was there by 2_30. He told me that it was christmas eve, it would take more than 1 person to work at this and he had guests coming over soon so I was togo to the emergency clinic in appleton...normally 1.5 hours away.

If I'm reading this right, the condition of her uterus gave no other choice but to spay her. Her life would have been in a bigger danger had he not done that and once the bitch is awake, its normal for them to be sent right home. So even though emotionally this seems really bad and hard to accept given what else has occured, it is really normal procedure.

Then he came back into his office to meet you to assess her condition and deemed it would be in everyones best interest if you went to the emergency clinic as there was no other staff there? The majority of Vets here in the Cincinnati, OH area wouldn't be accessible after hours and their answering machines all refer on to the emergency clinics. We wouldn't even have that option for the Vet to come in and take another look and assessment before making the choice to go to the Emergency Clinic. Maybe this is normal in smaller communities, but not for all. He seemed to be concerned for her, otherwise he would not have made that trip at all? Am I missing something here?

I hope you find some help for Pearl and her babies, and I'm so sorry this happened. My prayers and good thoughts are with you all.

 

[victoria1140]

firstly if it was an emergency spay and caesarian I would have expected the vet to hold your Pearl for at least a couple of hours to make sure there were no complications. (Jessie was kept in for 4 hours after her emergency spay due to her being so ill). Christmas Eve is not an exscuse for not holding her longer, if he was in any doubt why did he not advise transferring her to the emergency clinic straight away. Have you used this vet a lot as I wouldn't be happy and I would advise you to talk to him/her first before going to an attorney.

If Pearl is happy about it then leave the pups with her as it will help with their social skills and mum can at least help with keeping them warm and ccleaning up after them.I'm glad you have help as we had eight pups to hand rear on our own and it is very tiring emotionally and physically.One of the most important things is to keep all the feeding stuff as clean and sterile as possible to avoid infections.

I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope you find an amicable solution to the problem.

 

[Windancer]

How are the puppies ?