SOS: Has anyone ever used "ACE" with their Newfs

[baloobear2]

Baloo is a wonderful newf, sweet as syrup until it is time to trim nails and feet. It has become much worse as he has become a senior as a matter fact I am not able to do it nor is really anyone in our house. We took him too the vet but they literally had to have two grown man tackle, muzzle him to get two toes trimmed. and it still cost 100.00 which I would be fine with if it was all of his nails and it wasn't so traumatic. I need to point up that he does have chronic pain from his hip and front leg(joint has arithitis) SO WHAT TO DO? Our vet said we could give him some ACE and it would sedate him enough for us to trim his nails. It does not knock them out it just makes them sleepy. However the one caveat that bothers me is that it does not alter their perception of what is happening in otherwords the anxiety that they feel about the procedure e.g. nail trimming--they are still completely aware of that! It makes me feel like a terrible newf mom! It is not a matter of we might need to do it we have to his nails are so long it is affecting his ability to go down the stairs without it hurting him. we could easily take off __ <-----that space in front of the arrow. Any thoughts and experiences would be greatly appreciated. PS: he does not try to mouth our hands when we do it but he pulls his feet away, runs away etc and I have mobility and balance issues...

 

[victoria1140]

have you tried rescue remedy or valerian drops as either would help calm him without doing any harm.

 

[padkins]

No experience with ACE. What about a big spoon of peanut butter? We have been able to work together with one of us holding a big spoon of peanut butter and focusing his attention on the peanut butter while the other trims nails. Might have to do short sessions at first and you might only get a few nails, but it has helped us with Cosmo. He is 15 months old and is just now getting to the point where we can trim nails or groom without peanut butter.

 

[Pregreen]

I have a Chow that refuses to have anyone touch his feet. We have him put under light sedation at the vet, they trim his nails and do anything else that needs to be done. He's groggy when we take him home but it's better than all of the trauma he goes through without sedation.

 

[R Taft]

I would not use ACE...having seen how it can affect some, it should not be used without medical back-up. It is quite traumatic for a dog to have Ace in it's body. It means the brain is still wanting to do things, but the body cannot..

Lukey was frantic about nails and ears when we got him. he would turn inside out when the Breeder tried to cut his very long nails..when he came into rescue

We used a very slow click and treat to teach him, nail-clipping could be a good experience. It is a slow system, but i can now clip all his nails on one foot and only one treat.

Initially it is just touch the foot...click/treat. and just increase increase the touch. the touch gets more intense. And goes on to touching with the cutter and more and more, until you cut a very small amount of one toe and so on. very small steps, very slow every day.

because his toe-nails were so long, we only shaved the nail daily in very small increments. Like I said patience is required. But he will now give me his foot and I can trim his nails or remove grass seeds, without requiring the vet or meds.

Rescue remedy would be quite good to use at first too

We also use the dremel, in small stages like that. But I still prefer the clippers first and I round off with the dremel

Please be very very careful using Ace type meds on dogs, it is only a quick-fix and could cause many more problems. you need to get the dogs to trust you to be able to do anything to them

Good luck

 

[baloobear2]

Hi, I believe, this is similiar to that idea thanks for posting

 

[new_2_newf]

I second the peanut butter/whatever else he likes. since it's just me, I have to stuff something, normally a kong. Well, I did. That let me do his back feet nice and quick. After that, I'd replace the kong with a marrow bone with something else awesome stuffed in the end, the shape was something he didn't feel the need to hold with his paws. so I could take the front paws and do them one at a time. normally by then he is resigned to the fact this is happening and doesn't fuss as much.

you might need to start slowly. Have someone treat him (or think up a way to do that yourself) and just hold touch or hold a paw. Make him stay in that moment until he relaxes an then call and ace and ace and give him lots of lovin. next time try again until that is easy, then try separating the toes, holding the paw and the clippers, touch the clippers to the foot, cut one nail, etc. it might take some time, but you'll both feel better if he isn't so afraid. We've also had some success with herbal remedies that help a dog relax they have to be given 30 min or so before the stress trigger and don't last very long, but they mellowed him out enough he just focused on the treat and we were able to make some progress. I've also and taken advantage of needing to dose him with Benadryl for something else to give his feet and nails a good trim. It also helps if they are exhausted....maybe try trimming after a good session of training and some exercise. I've found that helps tones when I'm trying to groom a new foster...they argue less when they are tired and I can normally get away with a bit more.

 

[baloobear2]

Thank you, I guess I was looking for someone to tell me that~because it just didn't feel right. He is so sensitive on his feet, ticklish and if I even look like I am going to touch them he moves~such a poop, but he's mine and I would move heaven and earth to make him comfortable BUT not at the expense of a "mind trip to hell" which is what I believe he would feel like. I am going to try the click and treat and peanut butter too--which he loves maybe that could be his treat

 

[new_2_newf]

good luck! just remember baby steps. maybe just sitting next to him on the floor is that is what makes him nervous, work up from there it is a long process, but I know you guys can do it.

 

[R Taft]

Thank you, I guess I was looking for someone to tell me that~because it just didn't feel right. He is so sensitive on his feet, ticklish and if I even look like I am going to touch them he moves~such a poop, but he's mine and I would move heaven and earth to make him comfortable BUT not at the expense of a "mind trip to hell" which is what I believe he would feel like. I am going to try the click and treat and peanut butter too--which he loves maybe that could be his treat

Your a caring and good Mom... and don't be to disappointed if it doesn't happen overnight, you will get there

 

[Jager's Mom]

We use ACE with our lab for long car rides... I will say, it's tricky to figure out what amount works (as we use the lowest amount possible that still works for him) and how long in advance to give it. It seems to really help him.... but I agree with the others that it's not the best choice for most pups.

 

[baloobear2]

Thank you everybody! I am going to try everything listed, premedicated with rescue remedy CHECK, Desensitize his cute big feeties CHECK Big jar of JIF from SAMS CHECK! Patience to make it through this all --still shopping I haven't found the Giant size of that yetLOL... jk it will be worth it to have him continue to have the trust in us that he does. I just wish he could tell me what the heck is the part he doesn't like!

 

[mulenag]

Michelle, if the weather continues to hold out after the new year, I can come down someday and try to help. Just let me know! I've been blessed with easy feet dogs, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be, but I'm willing to give it a go! Hugs to Baloo from me!

 

[CMDRTED]

Have you tried a dremel?

 

[baloobear2]

Thank you Becky, might take you up on that but he really is quite orny when it comes to this. I started touching his foot last night on the bed when he was relaxed, clicked and treated. He had this look on his face like "What I do mom" but gulped it down each time I did four times over a half hour do you all think that is reasonable start?

HI CMDRTED: We have tried a dremel and not so much...we had a pedipaw that he used to let us use when he was like 2&3 thats when he was a working dog and was having it done frequently and before his chronic pain from osteoarthritis and hip issues... Maybe if we desensitize his feet again that may be an option as he might remember it as a good thing..

 

[new_2_newf]

i think that if you were able to touch his feet and have him stay relaxed, that's an excellent start. maybe tonight you can do a little more touch more frequently, say once a min for 5 or 6 min, take a break, try it again, that sorta thing.

 

[padkins]

We have been working with Cosmo for a long time. He doesn't like to be groomed. He is 15-months-old and will run from me when I pick up a brush or clippers. So we started with the peanut butter and treating when we would just touch. Then clip. Now we are finally getting to the point where we can do that without peanut butter but it takes two of us. One to pet and reassure him while one does the "dirty deed". If he gets anxious, then we stop. :kiss:

 

[baloobear2]

Sounds familiar! Hopefully we will get to that point too, I think with lots of patience and love we'll get there!

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Pam, your post made me laugh....when Myra was a pup... and would get on my last nerve, I'd threaten her with "I'm getting the brush" and she'd run away....now that she's 3 and I say that, she runs to me!!

Side note: I am a stickler for my cats nails cause he loves to kneed on me in the middle of the night...so I began real slow and took my time but first started massaging the feet and extending the nails and treating afterwards (really takes time and patience) and eventually it's not an issue, my parents are amazed what a little patience and work does cause they can't even touch their cats feet. I never had a problem with puppers but assume it's very similar! Good Luck Michelle and take your time.

 

[baloobear2]

Thank you! We have the "cat clawing the belly" syndrome here too. I'll have to get some different treats for Mike to use for the Cat as when he jumped up on the bed to make "fun" of Baloo for having to have his feet rubbed, he was not impressed with the Peanut Butter LOL!! AND yes he does torment Baloo when he has to have grooming of any kind done, he's a little evil that way!