Julie/windancer
Inactive Member
Is anyone going to be there? We have a puppy bitch going out for the first time..would like to hear any news. The handler won't have time to call. Julie
Sarasota Florida Show
- Thread starter Julie/windancer
- Start date
newfvo
New member
Why in the world would anyone send a puppy out with someone who couldn't find the time to call to let you know how she is doing in what would be her first time away? Having had several dogs "out" with handlers, I would first of all think twice before sending out a puppy and secondly think harder about one who doesn't communicate. You can't convince me that any handler, even a top handler with many dogs, can't find 5 minutes in a day to talk to their clients about the well being of their dog.
Ivoryudx
New member
Julie - I saw the '6-9 month' puppy girl with your name listed on her, in the Deland, FL show catalog. Isn't this the same handler that had the dogs die in her truck, that you wrote about? Now your saying that she won't have time to contact you?
HUGE RED FLAGS TO ME....
[ 01-09-2007, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Ivoryudx ]
HUGE RED FLAGS TO ME....
[ 01-09-2007, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Ivoryudx ]
Julie/windancer
Inactive Member
Good Grief folks...of course she will call... At the end of the day....I was just referring to getting results earlier...The co owner and I feel perfectly comfortable about sending this young girl out. And with this particular handler. I don't need to go into the details on this forum. Because I knew the TRUE story of this incident and posted it,(unlike some other rumor mills) does not constitute badmouthing..facts are facts.
Julie
Julie
luvxl k 9
New member
Well said Julie. I was also accused of bad mouthing this particular handler when stating the facts and we are also still on very friendly terms and in fact she got her face cleaned numerous times this last weekend by Beau. It was an unfortunate, preventable accident and one she would prefer not be dredged up again.
Ivoryudx
New member
Okay so I've been looking into this a little more this morning. It seems that there is pending legal actions against this handler, from the incident last August. The AKC has 'frozen' her AKC priveledges for her own dogs, and pending the outcome of the legal court cases, they will address the charges. Meaning, this handler can not breed, show, or transfer ownership of her own dogs, until the AKC takes action AFTER the court case. BUT she can still legally 'HANDLE' other peoples dogs and attend AKC events.
Why get mixed up in this? There are other handler that could be used, especially with a puppy. I just don't 'get it'. This has nothing to do with people getting upset with what was written a few months ago. This is the fact that dogs died in her care, and there is legal actions pending against her. Now there are dogs in her care again, without the other being resolved yet?
Why get mixed up in this? There are other handler that could be used, especially with a puppy. I just don't 'get it'. This has nothing to do with people getting upset with what was written a few months ago. This is the fact that dogs died in her care, and there is legal actions pending against her. Now there are dogs in her care again, without the other being resolved yet?
Julie/windancer
Inactive Member
Susan...This handler has never stopped handling.She probably still has clients because she is so good in the ring. The legal action is from the State of Missouri, and one client law suit. AKC will base their decision on the court outcome. I am familiar with all of it. I think we should wait for the court decision.
Do you remember the handler that let the golden die from leaving it on the table in the motor home(it bailed off) and told the owner it ran away? untill a witness came forward with the truth? This handler is also still out there handling. With a ten year suspension from AKC priviledges at present.
I am curious as to why this is such an issue for you? This handler is probably the last person who would make such a mistake again..don't you think? Our decision was carefully thought out.
Angus'mom ..Sarasota is this week..Julie
Do you remember the handler that let the golden die from leaving it on the table in the motor home(it bailed off) and told the owner it ran away? untill a witness came forward with the truth? This handler is also still out there handling. With a ten year suspension from AKC priviledges at present.
I am curious as to why this is such an issue for you? This handler is probably the last person who would make such a mistake again..don't you think? Our decision was carefully thought out.
Angus'mom ..Sarasota is this week..Julie
Ivoryudx
New member
The reason this is such an 'issue' for me, is because there is legal action pending, that could very well prove that she was negligent in the deaths of multiple dogs.
At the very least, dogs died in her care, and I would not 'knowingly' put the life of my dogs in someones hands who has this history. Even if I knew them personally. Sorry, my dogs lives mean more to me than that persons way of living. Our dogs are totally dependent on our character judgements and decisions.
At the very least, dogs died in her care, and I would not 'knowingly' put the life of my dogs in someones hands who has this history. Even if I knew them personally. Sorry, my dogs lives mean more to me than that persons way of living. Our dogs are totally dependent on our character judgements and decisions.
Julie/windancer
Inactive Member
We feel we made the right decision. Julie
sarnewfie
New member
http://www.newf.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000516
becouse you seem very two faced about the whole thing julie, here you are posting about her and none to nicely, yet you send a young puppy to be shown by her?
esp after knowing what is known now? i agree with susan.
WOW....
becouse you seem very two faced about the whole thing julie, here you are posting about her and none to nicely, yet you send a young puppy to be shown by her?
esp after knowing what is known now? i agree with susan.
WOW....
Jeannie
Super Moderator
When I first saw this thread this morning I went to look at the old thread that Christine posted a link to. I was shocked to see that you are still using this handler. Not only because of the 'words' that were said but the fact the she was negligent in hte death of so many dogs. I wouldn't trust her with any of my dogs. I'm sorry but no matter how good she is in the ring my dogs mean more to me than points.
Murphy
New member
Ummm.. feel free to ignore my question as it is probably stupid, but I always thought dogs owners showed their own dogs. Why does someone go to a handler who is a stranger?? And just what does a "handler" do?
Also, even though I admit to knowing nothing about showing, I do know I wouldn't leave my Murphy with this woman.
Also, even though I admit to knowing nothing about showing, I do know I wouldn't leave my Murphy with this woman.
KatieB
New member
I don't show and don't pretend to know a lot about it, but IMHO the point of conformation is to judge the dog not the handler. Our newf breeder is not big on showing anymore as it seems more often than not the "best" handler wins not the Newf most conforming to the standard.
I understand there is an art to handling and to being somewhat invisible so the judge can see the attributes of the dog, but it seems to me at the shows I have attended that the SAME handler wins most every time at the shows I have been at....that to me speaks to some oddities in the show world and perhaps the reason so many are turned off due to politics and lack of actually judging the dogs.
I'm not trying to incense anyone or start some giant debate, but if you've got a dog worthy of being a champion...IMHO it shouldn't matter who's at the other end of the leash and that certainly doesn't seem to be the case in most dog shows, which is why I and many others I know prefer to do other things with our pups rather than get involved in the politics and campaigning of the show world.
Jennifer...some owners do show their own dogs, but most do not. They pay "handlers" who are trained in presenting a dogs best attributes or hiding its faults from a judge and they show the dog. It's quite expensive when you get up higher in the ranks, but based on what I've been told and witnessed if you want to do well in a show at high levels you must have a top handler or judges will basically ignore you...which doesn't say much for the true judging of conformation. Ok this is getting way off topic and I'm sure I'm upsetting some people with my opinion...but in my limited exposure that is just what I've gathered of the show world. Please everyone realize this is only MY limited view opinion.
In regards to this topic...I'm not one to pass judgement when I don't know the full story, but I do remember the previous post about this handler and the fact that anyone would place their dog in her care and feel comfortable about it is beyond me. I understand it was an accident, but no amount of CH points or titling is worth the piece of mind of knowing your dog is safe and I'm all for second chances, but I don't even trust my puppies with a lot of my relatives much less a handler who has already proven to be extremely negligent. It's not worth the risk...call me crazy, but my dogs lives, well being and my own piece of mind in knowing they are absolutely safe is worth far more than a few points for a puppy in it's first show.
Edited because I can't spell
[ 01-09-2007, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: KatieB ]
I understand there is an art to handling and to being somewhat invisible so the judge can see the attributes of the dog, but it seems to me at the shows I have attended that the SAME handler wins most every time at the shows I have been at....that to me speaks to some oddities in the show world and perhaps the reason so many are turned off due to politics and lack of actually judging the dogs.
I'm not trying to incense anyone or start some giant debate, but if you've got a dog worthy of being a champion...IMHO it shouldn't matter who's at the other end of the leash and that certainly doesn't seem to be the case in most dog shows, which is why I and many others I know prefer to do other things with our pups rather than get involved in the politics and campaigning of the show world.
Jennifer...some owners do show their own dogs, but most do not. They pay "handlers" who are trained in presenting a dogs best attributes or hiding its faults from a judge and they show the dog. It's quite expensive when you get up higher in the ranks, but based on what I've been told and witnessed if you want to do well in a show at high levels you must have a top handler or judges will basically ignore you...which doesn't say much for the true judging of conformation. Ok this is getting way off topic and I'm sure I'm upsetting some people with my opinion...but in my limited exposure that is just what I've gathered of the show world. Please everyone realize this is only MY limited view opinion.
In regards to this topic...I'm not one to pass judgement when I don't know the full story, but I do remember the previous post about this handler and the fact that anyone would place their dog in her care and feel comfortable about it is beyond me. I understand it was an accident, but no amount of CH points or titling is worth the piece of mind of knowing your dog is safe and I'm all for second chances, but I don't even trust my puppies with a lot of my relatives much less a handler who has already proven to be extremely negligent. It's not worth the risk...call me crazy, but my dogs lives, well being and my own piece of mind in knowing they are absolutely safe is worth far more than a few points for a puppy in it's first show.
Edited because I can't spell
[ 01-09-2007, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: KatieB ]
saddust
New member
I have not found this to be true at all.... yes - some people use handlers - but the majority of shows I attend most dogs are owner or breeder handled - not just in newfs but in most breeds... and I live in an area (Illinois) that has typically large breed counts... I do find that if what most people are watching are the televised shows - then yes... many times you see handlers in those rings/group rings (typically with dogs who are campaigned or "specialed")... but on average - in the breed ring - you'll see many owner/breeder handlers.... just my experience from attending shows...
Maybe the shows you attend and show at are considerably different but I just have not found this to be the case on average.
luvxl k 9
New member
I owner/handle my own dog, 1 because I enjoy it. That said I have always maintained I wouldn't trust my dog with anyone other than myself. The owner of this bitch is planning on joining this handler this week in FL for the rest of the circuit. They couldn't prior to this because they had a litter of pups that needed cared for and that went to their new homes this last weekend. A lot of owners will travel along with their dogs and hand the dog off to the handler as they go into the ring.
In the year and a half I've been showing Beau I've noticed that handlers do get extra consideration so I've conformed. I now wear skirt suits and pull my hair back. Since I started doing this during the last 9 shows Beau has won BOW 4 times and WD 2 times. In one of the other ones, we also beat out a very well known handler to win our class.
That is one of the reasons I was so interested in seeing what Michele Billings would think of Beau. She is known not to care who is on the other end of the leash, she judges dogs, period which is how it should be, but unfortunatly usually isn't.
In the year and a half I've been showing Beau I've noticed that handlers do get extra consideration so I've conformed. I now wear skirt suits and pull my hair back. Since I started doing this during the last 9 shows Beau has won BOW 4 times and WD 2 times. In one of the other ones, we also beat out a very well known handler to win our class.
That is one of the reasons I was so interested in seeing what Michele Billings would think of Beau. She is known not to care who is on the other end of the leash, she judges dogs, period which is how it should be, but unfortunatly usually isn't.