Obie scared me.. long

[dumainedogs]

I'm shopping for a behaviorist. For quite some time, at seemingly unpredictable times, taken a dislike to a stranger and lunged or barked. It does not happen frequently and I have not been able to pinpoint a predictable trigger. But, yesterday.. he scared me and I have the bruises and road rash to show for it.

We were just a block or so into the first walk we've been able to take in awhile. (it has gotten hot here already) A woman walked toward us, remarking on how big and beautiful, etc.. so I put Obie in a sit. She asked if he bites.. and I said no. But, I noticed he seemed tense and had not taken his eyes off of her. As I made a move to leave.. he lunged at her barking, which scared her enough to scream and run away. He pulled me off my feet on the wet sidewalk and pulled me a good 10 feet or so. Clearly I wasn't going to let go because I didn't want him to get to her! When I got to me feet again.. he settled, she had made it to her porch and asked if I was ok. Bruised, shaken.. yes. But ok. I made Obie sit for a moment while I apologized profusely for scaring her. Then I promptly walked him back home.

I've gone over and over in my mind what could trigger that behavior. He regularly meets, greets and is fawned over by strangers in a number of different settings. In all of the lunge or bark incidents, it involves a person he doesn't know, who isn't with a dog, and is often alone. I've never had this happen at a large gathering. It has only happened twice at my home, once when he was startled by someone who emerged from the shadows by the pool in my back yard and once when a newcomer arrived at my door. In a few instances, the people have been african-american and were themselves showing some level of discomfort or fear.

The first time he did this, I read up on fear aggression, but most of what I found didn't seem to apply to his behavior. Still, I suspect at some level that may be what's going on. I just can't figure out what he's afraid of!

So.. mostly I'm just venting here.. I've already researched and found a Karen Pryor certified behaviorist, but I'd like to check her out with my vet before I schedule the consultation. I also suspect we'll be revisiting the idea of neutering. But, I know that is no panacea.

 

[lotus]

Christie ,oh my you have just described my Shadoe for about a 6 mo span.....as I was reading this I was near tears because that was me and I kept thinking what I did wrong.
as long as there were groups of people,people with dogs everything great.
The single person approaching me. He would flip. He only lunged three times...once when a man came up behind me at the busstop in the am when it was dark, once when the security guard at a hotel cameup behind me , and once when first meeting my trainer. The trainer observed him for a bit then told me to let out the leash. When I did, Shadoe lunged at her feet barking,and just stopped and looked around because hedidnt seem to know what to do after he didn't scare her. I was n tears...the trainer took the leash and Shadoe was her new best friend. She told me dog isn't aggressive but he is insecure.
like you I looked on the net to find a definition of his behavior and couldn't find one.
I called my breeder and she told me to bring him to her...thatwas when he lunged at the hotel security who came up behind us and said"YOUR DOG DIDN'T EVEN HEAR ME COMING UP" he creepedme out! Shadoe went after him..I was kind of glad.
Anyway the next day at his breeder he displayed none of those actions til I took the leash. She showed me his to control him on lead. For me...it was my energy...I stopped avoiding the situations that made me nervous and I stopped being afraid of hurting his feelings and being firm with him. I kept thinking I don't want tobe mean to him
When the behaviorist came to my house he showed me a few tips and said I would see improvement immediately and I did. He has been taught to "say hi" and he quiets down and relaxes when I say "enough". I dont yell it anymore...I say it in a low calm firm voice and he stops...we are still a work in progress but I see the light and I'm not afraid and I am more secure in handling him. I Know exactly how you are feeling and my heart aches for you but I believe you will work through it
Some of the experienced member s on list will have some advice for you but I just wanted to let you know I too have been there. I will be more than happy to send you my number for moral support if you like.

 

[Murphy]

Murphy has exhibited similar behaviour a few times in the past which was utterly baffling as he is a most gentle dog that will let vets/groomers manhandle him and loves everyone. .

I was eventually able to identify the trigger. The few times it happened it was when a stranger would approach me while he was on the leash. I would then pull him back and or put him in a sit holding him still and the person would keep approach. I took him to a behaviorist/trainer who said Murphy was feeling some type of nervousness and or fear from the person but could not differentiate, and I was restricting his ability to react to his guardian instinct......as result there would be a warning bark or slight lunge to back away. Every time someone has approached me since and it has been a while since his back end got worse we do not let anyone come near, I let the leash go slack and he was fine. Because he had some control. Now I don't pretend to know if this is anything near the same and I am not trying to give advise.. I am just letting you know that this may be a possibility and something to discuss with the EXPERTS... Not dumb me.. Good luck I can understand this must have been very upsetting.

 

[lotus]

I forgot to add ours started when we were attacked in pet smart and I handled it wrong...I also have a very high startle reflex and I scream at the drop of a hat...I've learned to be more calm.

 

[Leonard and his bud Snuffles]

Been there done that though not dragged . I have no ideaa what triggers that response. There was a fellow that came to the dog park, that Snuffles would run up to and bark at. Snuffles did keep a shot distance at least. Kind of hard to control off leash across the dog park. I was once approaching some ladies in the Park that wanted to see Snuffles. He lunged (surprised me) and barked and scared the lady and her run to get away she tripped and fell on the edge of a concrete slab. Glad she wasn't hurt. Then there is the fellow that use to live on our walk route. One time he started getting wound up ( a few beers too) when another neighbor of his, him and me talking about a convicted child sex offender was caught driving a ice cream truck. Snuffles started to bark at him and to this day at least 2 years later has not forgotten. This fellow since moved across town, was visiting even last night when we saw them on our before bed walk. There has been a few lunges to this fellow too, but now I keep Snuffles on a tight lead if I see Steve there.

I will be curious if you ever find that common denominator.

 

[R Taft]

This is a toughie and really should be seen by someone who deals with dog behavior......As there can be many reasons.

But as a quick comment.....There are some people who stare at dogs and they are often the people who are uncomfortable with dogs (fear of) who do this......Break the stare from the person to your dog, by moving your dog. You felt something was not 100%. Next time you feel this do an up lifting "Obie come" and just walk in the other direction and do a circle..try to get Obie to look at you and reward contact with your eyes. Make it happy...You were worried too and all of this can lead to what happened.

Annabelle used to lead lunge...i tried very hard to always anticipate her..before she lunged, I would get her attention, change direction. Always using a happy Annabelle come and click and treat....i would when i knew I had control and her focus, go back to the direction. try not to wait for the lunge, before you try for control. Try to anticipate or even before a situation. Even if it was not going to happen, it is better for it to not have happened.....If that makes sense.

Now another little trick for a large lunging dog........this is if the lunge has happened. Quickly run at the dog, when the leash is loose again, because you ran at the dog and made it loose....Then pull at a angle from 45 degrees very quickly...if you have a tight leash, the dog has power, if it comes from a loose leash, you have the power. If you are co-ordinated at the same time bump the hind-quarter. It makes the dog turn.

I have been re-training a few dogs with lunging problems, a few are heavier then me or at least very large. i was taught this with Annabelle and it gives you back control. You can even practice it in the back-yard...Dog pulls, move forward quickly, push the hind-quarter and you give a very quick rapid tugs on the leash and walk in the other direction. All the time, speaking happily dogs name come........Make them sit and reward a focus....

Now people might think it is funny that you walk away from them initially, but it is all about you getting back control.....

Just see if you can get some help, if you are worried..because if you worry, Obie will do more of this.

I hope this helps a little

 

[victoria1140]

another thing is how are the people coming at you. If they are staring, coming headon and getting ready to pet the head it can upset some dogs.

I make people wait with ours , let them sniff them first and then pat the side of them frst so they get used to them.

Also if you are tense it can make it worse as they are trying to protect you.

Best wishs and I'm sure you will find it is a silly thing that helps especially in shyer dogs

 

[Popcorn]

I think that Ronnie's advice is what I have found works. The biggest thing is the strength (and lack of psychic tension) is from the LOOSE leash combined with tug-releases that offset their momentum and balance. A constantly tight leash actually gives the power to the dog and adds tension into the situation. They also never learn self-control.

GL. It will get better. It must have been very scary. I do think your startle reflex might have fed into it initially. There is so much more power over a dog when you use a single, quiet command or even better all non-verbal cues.

 

[hemingway]

Hemingway barked his head off and raised his hackles at a little boy on the beach the other day....he was wearing a bike helmet and for some reason that really threw Hem off. The poor little boy and his father were scared to death. We grabbed Hemingway and walked him over to them, asked the little boy to take his helmet off and let Hemingway sniff it, proving it was just the helmet because he growled at it! But he gave kisses to the little boy and although it was over....I was horrified, embarrassed, shocked...had NEVR seen him like that before. While our situations may be different, I know that feeling of, "He's a good dog....he never does this, I swear!" I found myself saying out loud and in my own head, "he LOVES kids, he really does!" I'm sorry you went through that. It's such an awful feeling. While I don't have wisdom to offer you, I just want you to know I'm sorry you went through that and I hope you're able to get some help.

 

[Cascadians]

I don't know what your case is. Just want to say Orka has gotten ferocious and attacked statues and he's a loving dog. He got stock still, then growled, barked, circled, lunged, was scared and protective with at least 4 statues I can remember. It's a weird experience seeing a relaxed confident well socialized dog become afraid and reactive. To this day I'll take him up to a statue and reassure him it's nothing to worry about, tap on it, have him sniff it.

Update us when the behaviorist tell you what Obie is thinking.

 

[dumainedogs]

Thanks to all! I feel like I just got an nn hug.. and I needed that.
I'm also going to try to get a handle on the counter-intuitive "loosen leash when he lunges" idea. I understand what you're saying with that one, but I suspect, like many things, it is easier in theory than practice I continue to look for underlying factors that may contribute. Obie might have been a little more amped up the other day because he'd been stuck in the house during the rainstorms all day while I was at work. He is not a fan of thunder. The biggest challenge will be calming my own internal tension over this to keep my fears from creating a self-fulfilling prophesy. Ahhhh deep breaths!

 

[janices]

Best to see a behaviorist.

I will say may be better to switch to no pull harness than a collar. People tend to tense the leash which pulls the sensors down to dog which can give signals to dog that they are not aware of.

Experienced dog people tend not to approach a dog so it's intimidating. First thing to do is grab the head and turn off so the dog can't stare, not tense the leash. Don't let the dog stand and stare.

 

[Sierra Newfs]

I am so sorry to hear about what happened it sounds awful for both of you. I can't even begin to imagine how frightening and upsetting that must have been.

If it is the Martins you are considering working with, you'll be in great hands with them. Debbie has always been great at ClickerExpos when I've spoken to her or attended one of her lectures. She is incredibly kind and very knowledgeable. I've not met her husband in person, but when I was in contact with Lore Haug, DVM, MS, DACVB, CPDT, CABC to get a referral for a friend in Texas it was Dr. Martin she highly recommended. I'd call to get an appointment with them first while you have a call in to your vet to get her advice since there may be a wait until their next available appointment.

I wish you hadn't had to go through this experience, but it's wonderful you recognized the problem and are seeking out qualified help. Obie sounds very fortunate to be with you!

 

[NewfieMama]

This is a toughie and really should be seen by someone who deals with dog behavior......As there can be many reasons.

But as a quick comment.....There are some people who stare at dogs and they are often the people who are uncomfortable with dogs (fear of) who do this......Break the stare from the person to your dog, by moving your dog. You felt something was not 100%. Next time you feel this do an up lifting "Obie come" and just walk in the other direction and do a circle..try to get Obie to look at you and reward contact with your eyes. Make it happy...You were worried too and all of this can lead to what happened.

Annabelle used to lead lunge...i tried very hard to always anticipate her..before she lunged, I would get her attention, change direction. Always using a happy Annabelle come and click and treat....i would when i knew I had control and her focus, go back to the direction. try not to wait for the lunge, before you try for control. Try to anticipate or even before a situation. Even if it was not going to happen, it is better for it to not have happened.....If that makes sense.

Now another little trick for a large lunging dog........this is if the lunge has happened. Quickly run at the dog, when the leash is loose again, because you ran at the dog and made it loose....Then pull at a angle from 45 degrees very quickly...if you have a tight leash, the dog has power, if it comes from a loose leash, you have the power. If you are co-ordinated at the same time bump the hind-quarter. It makes the dog turn.

I have been re-training a few dogs with lunging problems, a few are heavier then me or at least very large. i was taught this with Annabelle and it gives you back control. You can even practice it in the back-yard...Dog pulls, move forward quickly, push the hind-quarter and you give a very quick rapid tugs on the leash and walk in the other direction. All the time, speaking happily dogs name come........Make them sit and reward a focus....

Now people might think it is funny that you walk away from them initially, but it is all about you getting back control.....

Just see if you can get some help, if you are worried..because if you worry, Obie will do more of this.

I hope this helps a little

Roni, would you suggest this for a dog who lunges in a friendly, non-aggressive way as well? Zuzu will do this sometimes when greeting a new person or dog, and oftentimes if it's a dog, the dog flees behind its owner in fear simply because of the size of the dog coming at him. I've pretty much gotten her to quit doing this to people alone by making her sit before greeting someone new, but when there's a fun looking dog in the mix she will sit or "wait" patiently until the dog is within striking distance and then pounce. Cooper sets a good example always, he waits, then he sniffs and wags his tail politely - but Zuzu just can't seem to believe that anyone would be afraid of her.

Sorry for the hijack Dumainedog!

Mary

 

[dumainedogs]

If it is the Martins you are considering working with, you'll be in great hands with them.

That is exactly who I am considering. Happy to have a recommendation from an outside source. While she looks great "online" you never really know! Thanks. I've downloaded her application and will work on that and call the vet Monday.