I'd like to have an argument please

Lisa@Caeles Hills

New member
Interesting arguement. Another factor may be just practicality. For one thing, its alot harder to keep a Landseer clean and white for showing. For another, it seems blacks are chosen more often. I know this has come up before, and I have only been showing a couple of years, but I've wondered myself if this wasnt true. When youre plopping down hundreds of dollars for a show weekend, it may get a little discouraging.
 

ladybugnessa

New member
My first real live meet and greet with a newf was a huge Landseer 18 months old. years ago. He's around 8 now... saw him back in late October.. I still love this boy...

I swore I would always have a Landseer and now we have Harley... who is small by newfie standards and yet everyone we meet remarks at how big he is. HA!

I'm not perfect in my markings I sure don't expect my dog to be.
 

ina/puusty

New member
Interesting thread. I too..am not perfect in my markings..and certainly...am not dead yet'. Love Monty and the boys...and Life of Brian..is one of my all time kicks, and the ..killer rabbits..oh yeah. ina n HB n Kesa
 

BLCOLE

Active member
none of the breeders I've spoken with about landseers are concerned about the markings, only structure. If a breeder were only concerned with markings, I'd run.
One has to remember that there is more to a Landseer than just the markings. An example is my new Landseer, Vinnie. Vinnie happens to be the son of my first Landseer, Zeus. Zeus earned his Championship. Having said that, Vinnie has MUCH better markings than his dad the Champion. As a matter of fact, Vinnie's markings are as close to perfect Landseer markings as I have seen on a dog.

Do Vinnie's markings mean that he should be shown??? The answer is NO because some of Vinnie's structural faults far outweigh his perfect markings. Poor Vinnie's rear legs look like they belong on a GSD rather than a Newf... In other words, he has a "weak" hind end and hops like a bunny rabbit when he runs.
 
Interesting thread. Also love Monty. Cant remember which movies they were from, but "I'm not dead yet" and the "coconut shell clip clopping horses" are two of my favorites.

Mary
 

angie j

New member
Interesting thread. Also love Monty. Cant remember which movies they were from, but "I'm not dead yet" and the "coconut shell clip clopping horses" are two of my favorites.

Mary
The Holy Grail....lol... "Where did you get those coco nuts?.. Coco nuts are tropical".
"Are you suggesting that cocoa nuts migrate..?"..lol
 
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lenovo

New member
I agree there are pets of blacks, and pets of Landseer. The consistency of markings I am sure is difficult, yet I agree if one was only talking saddles I would leave.
There are some nasty looking blacks out there with poor confirmation and NIL health testing.
and yes
I would take a mis-marked Landseer with ace confirmation and health testing up the wazoo over the BYB black any day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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angie j

New member
This is something that a lot of people don't understand. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "but I only want a pet, a friend, a companion." My response is how about "a sound pet, a sound friend, and a sound companion?"
I understand that... as I was one of those people who was looking for a 'sound' dog... not a show dog, but I wanted a Lan(D)seer as well, and had a hard time finding the "BEST" breeders favoring breeding them. It was as odd to me as saying, "I don't want to breed a Newf because it might drool to much."...lol. Again, I understand why a breeder might choose to 'breed' only the perfect marked dog, once it has adhered to the physical and health requirements. But I was just looking for a companion; Probably one a breeder would reject, and it was hard to find.

I agree if one was only talking saddles I would leave.
I was talking about Good Breeders.... I only interviewed Excellent Breeders with impecable reputations, show historys, and refrences.

Perhaps some breeders of Blacks could come onboard and offer why the would choose NOT to breed a Lanseer. Without reproach, just out of interest.
 
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BluwaterNewfs

New member
Perhaps some breeders of Blacks could come onboard and offer why the would choose NOT to breed a Lanseer. Without reproach, just out of interest.
Some simply do not care for landseer ( and is is spelled with a "D", named after the painter Edwin Landseer, who painted white & black newfoundlands) just as some do care for brown or grey. The prominent newfoundland color is black.

My girls do not carry the landseer gene, so as of now, I could not breed a landseer. Because my girls may carry the grey recessive gene, I would not breed them to a landseer or landseer recessive because I do not want to produce white & grey down the line. Both white & grey and white & brown are considered unacceptable color in the newfoundland standard.
 

lenovo

New member
Well I will add this Angie, and I myself have a Landseer.

There are some breeders and buyers who do not believe Landseer white and black are a true Newf. I have heard this numerous times from both. There are waves of undercurrent feelings within the clubs, and to stir it up more start talking greys and browns in Canada.
There are some breeders who breed for it all in terms health, black landseer, and if they are mis-marked they just are.
Not wanting to start a hot topic, just some thoughts.
 
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angie j

New member
Some simply do not care for landseer ...My girls do not carry the landseer gene, so as of now, I could not breed a landseer.... Both white & grey and white & brown are considered unacceptable color in the newfoundland standard./QUOTE]

Having dogs that don't carry the gene realy are not what I'm talking about... choosing not to breed because of unwanted genetics that would disqualify you from breeding and showing aren't either.

Although It's odd that Browns can be shown but not Brown Lan(d) seers??? Is that right, in the U.S? not so in canada, where I think Browns are not recognised.
 

Angela

Super Moderator
Browns and Greys are eligable for CKC registration.
They are not allowed to be shown in Conformation.
They can compete in Obedience, Draft, Water, Tracking etc.
 

lenovo

New member
American Color standards for Newfs are as follows:

Color
Color is secondary to type, structure, and soundness. Recognized Newfoundland colors are black, brown, gray, and white and black.
Solid Colors--Blacks, Browns, and Grays may appear as solid colors or solid colors with
white at any, some, or all, of the following locations: chin, chest, toes, and tip of tail. Any
amount of white found at these locations is typical and is not penalized. Also typical are a
tinge of bronze on a black or gray coat and lighter furnishings on a brown or gray coat.
Landseer--White base coat with black markings. Typically, the head is solid black, or
black with white on the muzzle, with or without a blaze. There is a separate black saddle
and black on the rump extending onto a white tail.
Markings, on either Solid Colors or Landseers, might deviate considerably from those
described and should be penalized only to the extent of the deviation. Clear white or
white with minimal ticking is preferred. Beauty of markings should be considered only when comparing dogs of otherwise comparable quality and never at the expense of type, structure and soundness.
Disqualifications-- Any colors or combinations of colors not specifically described are disqualified.
 

lenovo

New member
Ckc Standards​
The traditional colour is
black. A sunburned black is permissible. White markings on chest, toes
and/or tip of tail are permissible. Markings of any colour other than white
are most objectionable and the dog is to be disqualified. The Landseer
Newfoundland is white with black markings, and is of historical
significance to the breed. The preferred pattern of markings for the
Landseer is black head with white blaze extending onto the muzzle,
black saddle and black rump and upper tail. All remaining parts are to be
white with a minimum of ticking. The symmetry of markings and beauty
of pattern characterize the best marked Landseers. Landseers are to be
shown in the same classes as blacks unless special classes are provided for
them.​

Disqualifications​
Bad temperament, short flat-coat (Labrador Retriever type), markings of
any other colour than white on a black dog, any colours other than the
traditional black, or Landseer (white and black).​
 

BluwaterNewfs

New member
Perhaps some breeders of Blacks could come onboard and offer why the would choose NOT to breed a Lanseer. Without reproach, just out of interest.

Some simply do not care for landseer ...My girls do not carry the landseer gene, so as of now, I could not breed a landseer.... Both white & grey and white & brown are considered unacceptable color in the newfoundland standard.
Having dogs that don't carry the gene realy are not what I'm talking about... choosing not to breed because of unwanted genetics that would disqualify you from breeding and showing aren't either.

Although It's odd that Browns can be shown but not Brown Lan(d) seers??? Is that right, in the U.S? not so in canada, where I think Browns are not recognised.

You asked why some breeder choose not breed landseer - I choose not breed landseer because my lines do not have that gene and to introduce to my lines might give color(s) I do not want.

So if that is not what you asking - what are you asking?????
 

Windancer

New member
Everything I have is either landseer or landseer recessive...I rarely breed landseer to landseer..I strive to introduce large boned correct blacks, healthy, with landseer recessive. Nothing I have carries for brown or grey.. I have beautiful blacks, and I think, very nice landseers, however I hope to continually improve the landseer type. Some kennels are well known for their typie landseers....Three Ponds is one that comes to mind.
 
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