Hello from Blaze in Utah

Bojie

New member
Being that you are in Utah, please please please join High Country Newfoundland Club. It is the regional club for CO, UT, WY, NM and a wonderful place for education (plus a lot of fun). We have quite a few members from Utah who are FANTASTIC resources for everything Newf and wonderful ambassadors for our breed. www.highcountrynewfs.com
There is a section for "forms" where you can find the application, I'd be happy to sponsor you. We also have a "new puppy membership" that allows new puppy owners benefits of membership for a year. Branching out and learning from each other is so important. This breed is truly special and the more we share with each other the better the future of our breed will be. I can't emphasize enough how wonderful it is to be part of a regional Newfoundland club. Especially for a new Newf owner. All of us were new Newf owners at one point in our lives and have a wealth of knowledge to share.
 

BlackLightning

New member
There are a lot of great points here. Donna, thanks for your post!

I think there is one thing we all have in common (or at least I hope so, although I am not that naive). We all want to COMPLETELY ELIMINATE backyard breeders that are adding no value to this breed.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but the important thing is to learn from it as so many have shared here about the lessons they've learned since bringing their first Newfs home. It is absolutely wonderful that everyone on here LOVES their dogs as much as they do. No one on here should feel ashamed to share that love with the group. Post your pics, ask for advice, gain really amazing contacts as I have on here! and really take in and fully absorb the information available.

But, more importantly than loving your dog, you should love this breed and look out for its FUTURE well-being.

Step away from your love for your own Newf for a second, think about the FUTURE, not the past, not the dog you have laying at your feet, not the decisions you made when choosing your first Newf breeder. Think about the breed. What do you want for this breed? What do you think is important? Health? Temperament? A Newf that looks like a Newf? Do you want to help preserve the quality of this breed? Do you want to ensure that a Newf 10 years from now still resembles the beautiful working dog we all love and maybe even has LESS health problems than the breed does today? How do we do that? How can you and I, the voice and guardians of this breed ensure that the quality (and I am not just talking about conformation here!) is preserved? Who is it that is threatening this quality? How do we STOP them from degrading this breed?

We educate!!! And we educate whenever and wherever we get the opportunity, even if it ruffles some feathers. If we all just keep our mouths shut then we are not protecting the FUTURE Newfs. That is what it is all about. The FUTURE Newfs. All we are trying to do is protect the future generations because there is nothing that can be done about the current ones. Those pups already exist. They absolutely deserve loving homes, they are incredibly adorable and innocent and smell oh so good!! They have the cutest little bellies and will go through all those fun puppy stages. Everyone on here will be supportive and available for help if needed. We truly do love all Newfs. But, let's all try and remember to protect those future generations that haven't been born yet - let's try and help more people buy their second, third, and fourth Newfs from responsible breeders and ultimately eliminate the BYBs! If none of us say "wait a minute, you should consider this" then there is a really good chance people are going to make the same mistakes again, or they are going to provide inaccurate advice to others interested in the breed. I am sure no one wants to go around promoting a BYB.

Well, that is just my two cents.

As a backgrounder - I am very very new to this breed. A total newbie. I brought home my first Newf four years ago. I knew very little. I couldn't identify a BYB if one came up and bit me in the ass! But, that is NOT who I am today. A big reason for that is this forum and more importantly, the contacts and resources that have come out of it. There have been some really heated conversations on this forum. Things have been said that downright STUNG. But man oh man, do those threads ever stick with you and have I ever learned a lot. Everyone has a little bit of a different approach on here. Some come off a little harsher than others. You get used to it. Just like in life and in a family. You get to 'know' people. You will also start to pick up on those folks that have devoted their entire LIVES to this breed and will come out swinging to defend its future.

When I go to choose my next Newf I will have a massive support system behind me to help guide and support me and tell me how it is if I am way off-base. But I also know I will be doing my little part in eliminating the BYBs by NOT supporting them, not buying my future Newf from them. One less person for them to sell to. Simple equation of supply and demand will eliminate these bastards.

So, I am happy to educate, share my opinion (even if not directly asked for - sorry, too bad) because I see those future puppy faces and I want each and every one of them to be produced by someone that doesn't just love this breed, but lives and breathes it, protects it, and cherishes it. Not by someone looking to make "easy" money.
 

newfx's2

New member
We are bringing home Blaze in about a week. I am a total newbie when it comes to this breed so I am a little nervous but I have spent months reading this and other forums (thank you) and talking with Newf owners. I am hooked for life.
How exciting for you to be bringing Blaze home soon. He is absolutely adorable!
 

AubreyMo

Inactive User
Being that you are in Utah, please please please join High Country Newfoundland Club. It is the regional club for CO, UT, WY, NM and a wonderful place for education (plus a lot of fun). We have quite a few members from Utah who are FANTASTIC resources for everything Newf and wonderful ambassadors for our breed. www.highcountrynewfs.com
There is a section for "forms" where you can find the application, I'd be happy to sponsor you. We also have a "new puppy membership" that allows new puppy owners benefits of membership for a year. Branching out and learning from each other is so important. This breed is truly special and the more we share with each other the better the future of our breed will be. I can't emphasize enough how wonderful it is to be part of a regional Newfoundland club. Especially for a new Newf owner. All of us were new Newf owners at one point in our lives and have a wealth of knowledge to share.
Don't know if that's an invite for me or the OP but I would LOVE to. Always looking for more local newf people! Thank you for the kind response.
 

Sadiesmom

New member
I recommend joining a local newf club. We joined our local one and have met many great people and learned so much.
 

ardeagold

New member
Thank you Aubrey, for your reply. :) I do appreciate it.

Yes....Josh was our inspiration, and Frankie is from Josh's kennel. Although Cole is our first show male and is now almost 6 yrs old...Frankie, our youngest and newest, is actually our first from Josh's breeder. However, in the "top lines" many are integrated, both here in the US and in Europe. Cole's sire happens to be Frankie's grandsire, but they came from two different kennels, who obviously have a history of working together to produce the dogs they have. :)

Anyway...I'm not a breeder. Just wanted to clear that up.

The relationship you describe is extremely important. A breeder should be there to support their puppy owners as well as the puppy, for the life of that dog. Unfortunately, that's one of the biggest complaints heard from people who get their first pup from wherever. The breeder isn't there for them, has no desire to have a lifelong connection, and certainly doesn't want to hear anything negative.

Clearances are also important. That shows the breeder is making an effort to do the right thing. There are no guarantees, and every breeder will have problems they don't expect pop up, but good breeders do try to choose good matings so that the odds are in their favor, and they're not producing puppies with genetic health problems.

There are a few more things that quality breeders do, in addition to the above, and they are:

1) Know pedigrees and lines (often have them memorized), which gives them information about a dogs relatives and ancestry that they're considering pairing their girl with. This is important for not only determining what the resultant puppies may look like, but what health and/or temperament issues might pop up from 5-10 generations back.

2) Actually putting their hands on the male to feel what the flaws are (they can be felt better than seen in many cases), and make sure that they won't be made worse by mating the pair. They're looking for a complimentary breeding...something that can potentially offset their girl's faults and vice versa.

3) Show their dogs. The reason is so that they can get multiple opinions from multiple sources and know they're not suffering from "kennel blindness" (everybody loves their dogs and thinks they're the BEST ever) and that, yes, their dog does meet the standard and is considered by others to be of breeding quality. The whole purpose of dog shows is to enhance the gene pool by acknowledging dogs that meet the breed standard.

4) Work their dogs in Newf-specific working events, such as draft and water work. If a breeder isn't able to do this due to time constraints (remember they have dogs to care for and usually have families and jobs as well - plus they show which requires travel), they should encourage their puppy buyers to do so. This "tests" the line for the ability to do the job they were designed to do. For example, If you have a whole litter who won't put a toe in the water or swim easily for long periods of time...something's wrong, which could be either temperament or structure. If, once they're grown, they can't pull a cart for a good distance, with proper weight in it...something's probably wrong with the structure. A good breeder can see the structural faults, but if their puppies are spread out and the don't have the opportunity to physically see and touch that dog as it grows, working a dog will surely bring any problems to the forefront.

5) Mentor their puppy buyers in all things Newf. Anything the puppy buyer wants to do with their dog over the years... the breeder is there to help, or to guide them to the "experts" who can help. They have a huge network of people who can help with grooming, training, handling, etc etc. They are an invaluable resource for the life of your dog.

These things (plus so many more) are the things that separate the " top quality" breeders from a nice breeder who gets clearances, loves their dogs, treats them well, and who's there for their pup's owners.

And Aubrey, I know you have a good relationship with Moose's breeder and are getting a "replacement" puppy for the issues he has, but you also said you'd like to have a Newf from a top kennel. So instead of getting a replacement, and your breeder is willing to refund the price you paid for Moose, that money could go towards making your dream come true. It's not disloyal, and yes it sounds like your breeder has been there for you and Moose, which is great, but you may want to think about where you want to go next with the breed.

I do wish you the best...and all of the new puppy owners. I just want everyone to understand that owning a dog from a "top kennel" doesn't have to be only a dream. Don't get stuck. Keep moving forward, and you'll be surprised at how achievable that dream is.
 
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AubreyMo

Inactive User
And Aubrey, I know you have a good relationship with Moose's breeder and are getting a "replacement" puppy for the issues he has, but you also said you'd like to have a Newf from a top kennel. So instead of getting a replacement, and your breeder is willing to refund the price you paid for Moose, that money could go towards making your dream come true. It's not disloyal, and yes it sounds like your breeder has been there for you and Moose, which is great, but you may want to think about where you want to go next with the breed.
It means more to me to get a brother of Moose my special boy, then to get a random dog from a top breeder, so that's a choice I'm willing to make...but I plan on having newfs my whole life so that dream of another isn't a far off possibility. I appreciate your comments and feedback. :) Would like to see how the poll turns out if you do one.
 

ardeagold

New member
If I do a poll, I need to figure out how to word it. I do think I'll have to make it so that people are able to choose multiple responses. Generally people have more than one reason for choosing the breeder they do.
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
It means more to me to get a brother of Moose my special boy, then to get a random dog from a top breeder, so that's a choice I'm willing to make....
I would be interested in the results of your poll, Donna, as I wonder why people pick the breeders they do. More importantly, why they keep going back to the breeder that they have had a bad experience with.
 

AubreyMo

Inactive User
Moose having a bad back is not the fault of the breeder...I've had it checked by the vet. Moose wasn't a "bad experience". He's changed and saved my life, and I love the breed standard personalities and looks my breeder has produced. Not everyone cares if their breeder has the means or desire to show or work their dogs, especially here in Utah where there isn't any training or competitions available. I think this is why most people on here don't want to admit who they got their dog from because regardless, someone is going to tell you they aren't good enough...and to me that's a difference in opinion, not me ruining the breed or not loving the breed.
 

AubreyMo

Inactive User
I guess what I'm trying to say is there is nobody to blame for Moose, and I choose my breeder againt because even when I was upset and wanting someone to blame she was there for me and has more than backed her health guarantee, and calls me crying about Moose. It would be a different case if she had said it was my fault or not offered to help (which she didn't have to do anyway). Hope that helps answer your question.
 

Ivoryudx

New member
Aubrey, I think your missing the fact that you, and others who saw your pup right after you got him, recognized almost immediately that something wasn't quite right. His breeder should have known that before you ever fell in love with him. THAT is a breeder who is in tune with their litter. Yes things can accidently be missed, but even with your inexperience with the breed, you noticed something was off and asked others. No reputable breeder would have sent you that puppy without first discussing his unusual movement and tail carriage.

As far as this whole thread goes, Donna and Kaila have made some excellent points. I am a true believer that a good breeder loves the breed, not just the dogs they own, and their actions and their breeding program will prove it. They do show their dogs, they do the health checks, they do know their pedigrees and they don't support other back yard breeders by selling and buying from them.

Just because someone may be on a recognized breeders list, or are nice people who tell you everything you want to hear, does not make them a good breeder, imo. Just because someone loves their dogs, and tells people their dogs fit the standard, does not make them right. A good breeder proves they have a good breeding program by their actions outside of the whelping box. Anyone can produce puppies, it takes a good breeder to produce a Champion, Utility Dog, Water Rescue Dog, Draft Dog outside of their own back yard.
 

AubreyMo

Inactive User
Nothing wrong was recognized until he came home and was about 11 weeks old, his bones continued to fuse as he grew... Anywho. Welcome Blaze, sorry me defending you turning into this entire mess.
 

suse

New member
Aubrey, I don't think anyone is trying to ruin this thread. Those who's advice you are opposed to have mentioned that the OP's puppy is cute and have wished her wel. This USED to be a forum to come to learn about owning a Newfoundland. We ALL love this breed and think it is unparalled to other breeds.

Those breeders who show (and for the life of me I can't understand why you wouldn't make that a priority when choosing a breeder) do not always have a lot of money and time. Those breeders want to breed a breed standard dog and spend hours and hours of time researching dogs with good pedigrees. They are upfront with you when you ask questions. They will bring out the dogs they own and go over with you one by one what each dog's individual flaws are. They can tell you what bitch they would like to breed to what stud and WHY they chose that stud for that bitch. They will let you come and play with and visit their puppies and dogs anytime and answer all of your questions truthfully. You will know more about the breed than when you leave and the information is truthful because they show their dogs and customers show puppies bred from their dogs. They have reputations for being good breeders and don't want their kennel to get a bad rep for breeding poor quality dogs.

BYBers and millers can be very friendly and very nice and answer questions, but can they answer pedigree questions and WHY their newf is a good example of a newf? "But she's cute and has a good tempermant" is not a valid reason. I could then breed labradoodles and call them newfs, because they are cute and have good temperaments.

Again I question if there must be something wrong with me to expect a quality newf (even if its a pet only). Newfs are not an inexpensive breed. I want to be proud when I say my newf is a so and so newf, and want know the best interest in the breed AND my puppy was taken into consideration before the pup was even bred. If you can explain to me what point I'm missing FOR BYBs and puppy millers, PLEASE inform me. I enjoy learning all I can.

As said many times in this thread, we all make mistakes and most of us are guilty of not knowing the breed well when purchasing our first newf. I do think it's shameful after learning about newfs to continue to support irreputable breeders.

I don't come to NN much anymore because I am sick to death of all the warm fuzzies claiming every newf is GORGEOUS or BEAUTIFUL or so HANDSOME. Cute, yes. Sweet, of course...but let's all be honest and learn a little while we are at it. We need to stop misleading those who want to breed just because they love their dogs and encourage them to breed a newf of poor quality. (I am not a breeder and have never owned a well bred newf..just rescues. All the more reason I've done my research. My next newr..that I'm willing to wait for is going to be a "real" one. :)
 

AubreyMo

Inactive User
She asked why I chose my breeder. I answered. I don't think my choice is "shameful" at all which is why I was willing to discuss it in the first place. I appreciate the feedback but we can agree to disagree. East coast vs west coast dog mentality is way different... I know everyone on here has valid points. I get that and have always appreciated the education I received here. I'm not opposing their advice, as they know much more than I do, and that's great. I AGREE that people need to be educated, but I also don't want to be torn down for my choice of dog or breeder, because all it does is make new people like me feel like we can't come here for help without judgement.

I'm not making a case for back yard breeders. I'm saying those of us who wind up with BYB dogs (of which, I do not believe Moose is) should feel welcome and have support since they have already set their mind to a particular dog. That's it. I didn't ever mean for it to get so many people wound up. Its nice that all the breeders stick up for each other but I was never trying to attack or offend ANYONE. I was trying to give them a view of how newf newbs feel, and how they can help educate us (the stickies are great, especially those recently made), and offering help rather than preaching. If this gets me kicked off or unwelcome here, so be it as long as it makes it so everyone that is new feels comfortable.
 

Bojie

New member
MNot everyone cares if their breeder has the means or desire to show or work their dogs, especially here in Utah where there isn't any training or competitions available.
Not true! Our club has many members who hail from all over Utah who do obedience, working, and conformation. Where you live should not make a difference with what you do with your dog. In fact, I just spent an entire weekend with a Newf from UT who excelled in the ring, and they had to rush home to make it to their freestyle dance class! The thought of them dancing was a source of laughter for me for quite a few hrs and I have been promised video...my point is, there are TONS of events all over the country, you just have to want to participate. There is NOTHING more touching than watching a dog do what it was truly bred to do. Whether it's my dogs, or a complete strangers, it makes me well up with tears every time. Especially working events. There are a group of Newf owners in Utah who get together to do water rescue training, and draft training and there is also a show this summer in Utah, (I was invited to stay at a members house if I was interested in entering my boys). I think joining a local club helps owners branch out with their dogs. I know it's truly helped me in every state I've lived in.
Not picking on you, or anyone at all. There's just a whole world out there that is just so fun to be a part of and location should not hold anyone back.
 
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AubreyMo

Inactive User
Not true! Our club has many members who hail from all over Utah who do obedience, working, and conformation. Where you live should not make a difference with what you do with your dog. In fact, I just spent an entire weekend with a Newf from UT who excelled in the ring, and they had to rush home to make it to their freestyle dance class! The thought of them dancing was a source of laughter for me for quite a few hrs and I have been promised video...my point is, there are TONS of events all over the country, you just have to want to participate. There is NOTHING more touching than watching a dog do what it was truly bred to do. Whether it's my dogs, or a complete strangers, it makes me well up with tears every time. Especially working events. There are a group of Newf owners in Utah who get together to do water rescue training, and draft training and there is also a show this summer in Utah, (I was invited to stay at a members house if I was interested in entered my boys). I think joining a local club will help you branch out with your dogs. I know it's truly helped me in every state I've lived in.
I'd be interested in knowing where the water work is done in Utah if you know. :)
 

ardeagold

New member
And what about the middle of the country? LOTS of Newfs in the upper central part of the US. Several excellent breeders there.

I really don't understand the east coast/west coast comment either. Are you saying, Aubrey, that the east coast has good breeders with good dogs and the west coast doesn't? They shouldn't be different because the breed standard DOES cover the entire US and breeders *should* be breeding to the standard.
 
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