Hello from Blaze in Utah

AubreyMo

Inactive User
My entire long comment and THAT is what you guys pick out? What I mean is. I'm from an area where there isn't as many opportunities for breeders and buyers to show and work and compete...obviously this thread has gotten way out of hand. Lets just all agree that we have our own standards and beliefs and call it a night. Sheesh.
 

Elizabeth

New member
I live in Montana. We have one show per year, no regional newf club and some "trainers" that are highly questionable. I know of very few newfs in my city, most if not all, bought from one of the several Byb's in the state. Even have breeders of newf/pyr mixes. What's the point of that anyways??
I digress- I bought Gracie from a not so great breeder here in MT. Byb? In a way yes. Long story there! Fast forward to Misha- she came from a great breeder :) In Tennesee. Via Jersey and finally Denver airport after their hearts were cleared. I spend a lot of time talking to people when out with Misha, all about good breeders.
It's worth the wait, it's worth the time, it's worth the distance. Where you live should have no bearing on the decision to bring a healthy, well bred, fantastic looking newf into your life. Period. There is ONE Newfoundland standard. It does not say newfs should have long noses, narrow skulls, joint disease, heart disease, cystinuria and short coats. Everyone that buys a Newfoundland deserves a healthy, sweet, gorgeous dog. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for, weather it's a cheap purchase price or a 5,000 dollar surgery...
That puppy in the window or down the street may cause a hell of a lot of heartache down the line when one chooses not to research, be willing to wait, or listen...

E
 
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Ivoryudx

New member
Wow, I really didn't think you believed Moose came from a 'good breeder'. I believe he came from a person who is a good person, because I have no reason to believe otherwise, and is someone who loves her Newfs and loves to sell puppies. THAT does not make her a 'good breeder'.

I challenge ALL breeders to put their breeding dogs out there! Put them in the Conformation Ring, Water Tests, Draft Tests, Obedience Trials, Agility Trials, Tracking Tests! PROVE that as a 'breeder' they have more interest in this breed than just to breed!! Post all health clearances on the OFA database, with proof of permanent Identification, and have ALL breeding dogs hearts cleared by doppler before breeding. THEN take back ANY dog produced, at ANY stage in its life when the puppy buyer can't keep it. Without talking someone else into handling it. Good breeders don't spend all their time just breeding and selling puppies. Anyone ever wonder why those BYB's are so nice and have so much time to spend on the phone with you? THAT is their job, and source of income. Dogs are not agricultural livestock, and should not be treated as such.
 

lmfoltyn

New member
I have rescued 2 dogs now, one from the shelter and one from an owner who didn't want him (Jake). I believe Jake came from a BYB and is a wonderful boy but isn't up to the Newf standards by any means...doesn't make him less of a wonderful companion which he is...BUT...when I do get ready to buy a Newf PUPPY it will be from the best breeder I can find...this breed has so many issues and the BYB isn't doing anything to help this situation...I know there aren't any guarantees but I want to give my puppy the best chance it can in life...as I am sure everyone on this site does. But, the best breeders in the world started out with it's first litter and I am sure they learned a lot from each and every one that came after to get to the point of being the best of the best.
 

snowdog

Member
:eek:fftopic:There are so many helpful and excellent points made in this thread. They just don't belong in a WELCOME section. I am all for educating us newbies - but you aren't going to get through to someone by barking down their throat about what a huge mistake they may have just made. Some of you have been way more kind and civil than others - and I am not referring to those folks - I just wish those others that weren't so kind would have started a different thread or used the PM feature if you need to call someone out. If I hadn't seen a lot more good than bad on this forum I would be so turned off by the discussion on this thread - and possibly straight into the arms of a BYBer who doesn't come off so elitist. And really my post is moot since none of the offensive posters will even read this much less consider the method of delivering their information. Again - many of you were very kind in your delivery but I am truly saddened at how abrasive this thread has gotten for someone who just posted that they were excited about their new dog.:icon_lamer:
 

KodysGrandma

New member
I haven't been here in a long while and just stumbled on this but it seems to me there is point in raising the issue in whatever thread it happens to come up. A PM is just that and others who might benefit will never read it. I'm old as some of you know and from that point of view it seems like people have gotten so thin skinned it is not possible to disagree without some feeling like it is an assault on their morals. I don't believe one of us could agree with someone on everythhing. Don't you disagree with your spouse at least sometimes?
 

ardeagold

New member
Snowdog, one of the reasons to put this information in this kind of thread is that this is where the people are.

How many of the pinned stickeys have you read? Even if you've read some of them, I'll bet the majority of people here haven't read one of them, and probably don't know they exist. And newer people don't know how to navigate the site, so will look at posts that a lot of people comment on, because they're continuously being bumped to the top of the "New Posts" section.

Generally, new people don't want to read through the long, detailed, "informational" topics ... they want to look at current, active threads - especially those about new puppies with pictures!

So, although many of us have posted threads for people looking for puppies, looking for breeders, looking for information about specific health problems, etc. and have had them pinned to the appropriate general forum area ... it takes a while (usually when there's a problem that someone starts researching after they've been here for some time) before those topics are found.

And THAT's why it's important to have these discussions wherever someone new might see them.
 

snowdog

Member
I almost mentioned your post by name as one of the patient, kind educators....
I am not complaining that the information was given I was just saddened that things got so personal and heated, page after page, when the information had been offered already.
I have read the stickies and referring to them in any newbie post I agree is most helpful. Thanks for being one of the good guys.
 

ardeagold

New member
Snowdog, thank you, but as you can see from my signature, some don't feel as you do.

That signature line is a compilation of several names I was called by one person here, as a result of my postings in a past thread that was almost exactly like this one!

I do understand some feel that this is bashing the original poster, or others who feel those of us chiming in are the judgmental evil Newf police who love to bully others who don't agree with their breeder.

We're really not evil, don't want to be mean, will always be there to support and commiserate with people who need help, but yes...we do tend to be the purists - those who want breeders to breed to the standard, and feel there's a great need to educate others who are new to the breed. So yes...we do "police" those who we feel are hurting our breed and yes, we are judgmental about their poor breeding practices.

I've had Newfs for 9 years now, and still learn something new every day from those judgmental Newf police who have been involved with the breed for decades. I'm still a "newbie" myself. And ask questions of others who know much more than I do, every day. I have six Newfs. Two "rescues", four I purchased..three of those as "show dogs". ONE of those three has his Championship, so far. I do NOT breed and I will not ever be breeding Newfs.

You'd think I'd know all there is to know about them by now. Not even close. But I sure do know a LOT more than I did when I joined this site in '04...thanks to the people who reached out to me...in threads MUCH more heated than this one. (We used to have some drag out raging battles on this site in the beginning, and that's how friendships formed, and knowledge was gained. I miss them. They were truly a great public service).

Most of us have done the exact same thing many "newbies" do. Bought our first Newf from a poor excuse of a breeder. We leaped before we looked. We fell for a "nice" person who loves their dogs, takes good care of them, who was a good salesman, perhaps who had a slick website, someone who sounded reasonable, and OMG...had puppies! Right then!! Only later did we learn that we had been fooled. And we learned from sites like this. We started making a lot of friends in the Newf community.

We found that what our first puppies breeders were saying wasn't true. We found that just because they love their dogs and treat them as family members, and even might get health clearances on the parents, doesn't mean that they have a clue what a "good" Newf is. Or if they do, they just don't care. They have other ideas. They may even spout the breed standard, and then breed dogs that look NOTHING like that standard.

But a Newbie doesn't know that. They want a Newf puppy NOW. And no matter how poorly bred a puppy is...they're all as cute as can be. So the newbie is suckered into that first purchase. Then they stick around here, and elsewhere, and watch their puppy grow. They start comparing their growing Newf to other pics of quality Newfs posted and think (some even ask) "why doesn't mine look like that"? Or "when will mine look like that?" And then the learning begins.

The majority here who get their second Newf take the information they learn on this site (and other social media sites), and make a much more educated, better choice the next time around. (That's what we hope for and is why we bother to do this.) And then, over time, THEY become one of the the teachers...and join the Newf police club, thank heaven. Just look at this thread and you'll see how many have said they made a mistake the first time, but won't do it again.

We found that poor breeders will bash quality breeders who spend their whole lives doing things right for speaking out trying to educate new people. Those poor breeders will call the reputable, quality breeders "snooty" and "elitist" and even "mean" and "bullies". That's NOT true. They truly do want to help and mentor new people - guide them in the right direction. And do it all the time, with those willing to listen and learn. But once a Newbie is hooked up with a poor breeder, that "help" is looked upon as "interference" and "being nosy", and the name calling, or negative labeling spews forth from the poor breeder's mouth.

The whole purpose of the "educating" process is to stop, or at least slow down, the plethora of BYB's popping up all over the place who prey on the uneducated and uninformed. They make a LOT of money doing exactly that. The more people we can reach to warn them off...the better for the breed.

And that's what it's really all about...our beloved breed.
 
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lmfoltyn

New member
ardeagold...loved your post...with my Jake I have said the same things you just mentioned...why doesn't he look like that...why is he so lanky...now of course I know...we newbies DO need to be educated even though we may have read everything we could get our hands on about Newfies...I will be much more prepared for a puppy when the time comes...still have a very soft spot for rescues though!
 

BlackLightning

New member
ardeagold...loved your post...with my Jake I have said the same things you just mentioned...why doesn't he look like that...why is he so lanky...now of course I know...we newbies DO need to be educated even though we may have read everything we could get our hands on about Newfies...I will be much more prepared for a puppy when the time comes...still have a very soft spot for rescues though!
And THIS is precisely why we try to educate!! And guess what? Now YOU get to educate others as well based on your first-hand experience.
 

suse

New member
Pumpkin, I don't know if I would have survived raising my adolescent rescue without you and many others here with experience. I use to come here everyday in the beginning and soaked up all I could learn. Then I brought home my second male rescue, thinking I now knew enough about Newfs to add another. I think I was. I WASN'T prepared for 2 grown males together. Again, I came here for help and received such good advice. The thing I like most about coming here is that no matter where a newf comes from, the "oldies" are always here to help, no matter if opinions are the same or different. I continue to learn from you and many others here. Thank you!
 

new_2_newf

New member
As the pumpkin caller, I have to say the posts on this thread have been excellent. I haven't always been a fan of the approach taken in the past, even if the message was good, but these are 99% honest, helpful, non judgmental comments. Sometimes these sorts of discussions can get very passionate, but this one has remained pretty much pure gold from the start.

No one is saying throw your puppy away. We know you love your puppy, and we love your puppy a little bit as well. We just want to help you get the best information you can have so that your next puppy can be even more awesome than the one you have. We want you to have a strong, healthy, sound dog that will live a long, happy life with you without unnecessary hardships for either of you.

So please read these posts with an open mind, understanding that no one here wants to make you feel poorly about anything. We just want to give you the best information we can to you can make the best decisions you can moving forward.
 
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