hard time climbing steps

[aalvarez]

hard time climbing steps---Update

About two months ago, DH took our dog for a short "run." Bad mistake. Ever since then, our newf has been limping around. Although, he seems to walk fine when going on walks around the neighborhood, but he has a very difficult time climbing the steps now and sometimes getting up from a laying position. Could this be arthritis? He had limped for a little while when he was about a year old from his hips but we started giving him Gluco/condroitin and shark cartilege supplements which seemed to have really helped. He is six years old, so maybe his age is starting to show?

 

[sarnewfie]

is your dog normally not active? it could be that the sudden excersise affected him like it does us when we go excersise when we had been out of shape.
Is he overweight?
hopefully the GL CHOND is 1700 mg a day.
and hopefully it is not his hips, if it is, excersise, dependant on severity is a good thing in the form of swimming esp.
walking in deep snow, and fluffy sand, or walking against the current in the water.

 

[nowhavethreebears]

Could be muscular, especially if he exercised more vigorously than usual, as Christine said. But if it were just muscular he should be over it after this length of time. It would much more likely be arthritis. Esp. if he had some joint problems when he was younger..which it sounds like he did.
Unfortunately, arthritis tends to attack those joints that are weakest first. You might ask your vet about a safe regimen of anti inflammatory meds for him. Sometimes just aspirin is all it takes......

 

[Charlie'sMom]

Charlie had a bad few days of limping after a 6 hour hike in the mountains, followed by a dip in a glacier run-off creek, and then laying on the cold dirt at a campsite ... I did some massage and applied heat to the joints, gave him some baby asprin, and then in a few days it resolved ... I think the heat was the best for him, it reduced the limping almost immediately

 

[Leonard and his bud Snuffles]

Since about the first of tthe month, Snuffles too has looked like he too is having troubles with steps. He also really wants to go for rides, but when it is time to get in the back seat of the car, he walks up, and then acts like what do I do now. Same way with getting on the couch. Even the one step from the family room to the kitchen he hesitates, Also, he doesn't want to do this when invited too. He will make a token effort, but just doesn't jump.

Now walking, getting up and the other normal movements of a day, he seems like he always has been. He is doing better, but it is like he lost confidence to jump. He doesn't act like he is in any pain either.

I too had Snuffles on Ascriptan. Per a vet tech friend of mine, she said 2 tablets with meal for 3 days, and 3 days no drugs. Like I said, he is doing better on steps and getting on the couch. We just started our days with no asprin. So we will see. Still avoiding the car, but he will have a ride tommorrow. I will probably still have to help him in the car.

 

[aalvarez]

Well, took him to the vet today and the vet thinks it's his knee. She felt alot of fluid around his right knee. The notes in his history say his hip on his left side was weaker so he was compensating on the right side and putting stress on that knee. They gave us anti inflammatory medication and we have an appt. with an orthopedist next week. No steps or walks for now to stay off the knee. I hope this won't require surgery. A friend told me about Ester C supplements? It is a natural form of anti inflammatory. Anyone try this? Anyone with experience with knee problems with your newf? We currently give him 1700mg Gluc/Chond as well as shark cartilege and fish oil. He has done well with this regimen until about two months ago when he started limping again.

 

[BoundlessNewfs]

There have been several posts about knee/joint issues, arthritis, etc. Do a search through old threads in the "maladies and diseases" section, and you will turn up all kinds of information that could be helpful to you.

Hope your boy is feeling better soon, and that it's just a little inflammation and not a real problem with the knee.

 

[aalvarez]

We took our newf to an ortho surgeon and he said he would need surgery--no surprise there. He said he could "slide" his knee joint. I thought they would at least take x-rays to see how severe it is, but they didn't. Surgeon recommended TPLO surgery at cost of about $3800-4200. We have Petcare insurance which would cover 70%. I have been researching cruciate ligaments problems in dogs and found that some don't even need surgery. We currently give our newf 1700mg gluc/1200 chond, shark cartilege, and fish oil supplements on a daily basis. How much supplements do you give a 152lb newf?

I am wondering if we shouldn't do the surgery and see if he is able to recover with restricted activity. We have blocked the bottom of the stairs so he can't go up and down anymore, and no more walks. Any thoughts on TPLO surgery?

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

I would get another opinion since some vets seem to be surgery happy and that is their only answer, even when not necessary. Depending on how severe the problem is, some do ok without surgery. You can give more gluc/chon too.

 

[aalvarez]

How much more gluc/chond can we give him? Doctor's Trust vitamins is having a B1/G2 sale so I ordered more shark cartilege and Ester-C.

 

[Pam G]

The problem with not doing the sugery is that more arthritis can form in the joint and you may not get as good results if you decide to do it at a later time. It's a tough decision. I guess it depends on how active he is and how much pain it is causing him. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[mudji]

Weezie has had both knees done with TPLO at about 2 years apart. Best thing we ever did. She is a different dog this winter. We had a very reputable vet who had done many, many surgeries, had great recommendations, and had done many newfs as well.

Should I have another dog with these problems, I would not hesitate to have the operation again. Remember, it means months of confinement for the dog, but as long as they are in the middle of the action in the house, I found no problems. I'd think about the time of year before I scheduled surgery. I had to look at the ice and snow factor here in Maine.

There are many threads on this topic, so I'd search to see what others have had to say on this topic.

HTH,
hannah
in snowy Maine

 

[Ginny]

As you said, some don't need the surgery, but you always risk the chance of a complete tear. The sliding the vet described is the "drawer effect", the gold standard for diagnosing, so I wouldn't be concerned at the lack of x-rays being done. I would get a second opinion. There are other procedures to "repair" the ligament and/or stabilize the knee. Talk to the vet about those too. Also, I think it would really help for you to get some weight off your boy. Whether you do the surgery or not, he needs to be on the really lean side for hip, knees, or any joint issues.

 

[mrs big dogs]

I take my newfie to a chiropractor, I was told she needed TPLO surgery, the vet wanted to set up the appt for the next week, I decided to go with hydro therapy and the chiro,
she is only 2 and seems to be doing very well, sometimes the vets are just money hungry, and i wanted to try everything else before such a BIG AND EXPENSIVE SURGERY.

 

[2newfs4now]

Just read this thread...Max had a torn ACL and we opted for the repair instead of TPLO. He turned 5 last June and this procedure was done when he was about 1.5 years; no problems since. My vet and I try to find viable alternatives to surgery when we can...he's not holistic, just not knife happy!

 

[aalvarez]

Well, I've read several messages threads here on Newf Net and other information while researching, and there are so many differing opinions, stories, etc. I realize it all depends on the individual situation which makes our decision even more difficult because I'm really not sure what to do! I read on a vet website that TPLO is highly recommended for dogs over 50lbs. The longer he limps, the more I'm leaning towards surgery. I feel like I don't want his injury to get worse. He doesn't seem to be in pain as he's not wincing and it sure doesn't stop him from his usual "dumpster diving" , but he is limping much more within the past month or so, so maybe he does hurt. When he first started limping, he would go on short potty walks and you wouldn't even have noticed that he had a bum leg. It was only evident when he climbed steps or got up from a laying position. He has gotten used to sleeping on the first floor instead of upstairs with us. He barked and complained the first few nights. He only attempts to go upstairs if DH is up there anyway. Only likes to give DH love. :shrug: Told DH he will have to start sleeping downstairs with Yogi! Does leg bracing work? If he does have surgery, will he be back to normal? Is surgery successful most often?

As far as his weight, we've been told by the vet that he needs to go on a diet . Any advice on the best way to go about this while he is on very restricted activity? For about three years, he was weighing in at 142lbs. Then, we switched vet clinics and his weight suspiciously jumped up to 152lbs??? I don't think we feed him too much. Approximately 4 cups a day (2c for breakfast, and another 2c for dinner). Is that too much? I have been wanting to switch to an organic dog formula. We have been giving him ground venison as a treat. Is venison okay to feed to him?

Btw---we have Petcare insurance. Does anyone know if they cover therapy, medications, chiropractory, etc? I know we have a $3K lifetime max for each category (this would be under musculoskeletal conditions).

 

[Lisa@Caeles Hills]

I have had surgery myself on both knees, and also 3 surgeries on my wrist because of arthritis. My knee surgeries were because of a car accident and there were bone chips inside and a severed ligament. Even after surgery, it took years to heal and strengthen. If your dog has inflamation or water on the knee it takes a long time to heal, surgery or not. What would they exactly do for your dog with the surgery? Is it something that absolutely HAS to be done for healing? I would wait and give it more time. I know you are worried about the pain but it sounds like you are doing your best for him to help this. Just keep him moving slowly so it doesnt get stiff and keeps the muscles built up to support the joint. Just takes a long time with these things. I had my arm bone (ulna) shortened 2 1/2 years ago and it still gets inflamed and sore at the site on a regular basis. Hope everything turns out ok!

 

[berryann]

My male newf had TPLO surgery done on both knees - the first was done last Sept and the second 8 weeks later. Before I made the decision I talked to 3 vets and two surgeons, his breeder, and several newf owners who had dealt with cruciate issues using TPLO, traditional repair, and/or conservative management(no surgery). I feel very good about the decision I made. Kofi is doing well. We're about a month away from him being allowed offleash activity. (And I can't wait - here in MN, those 6 am short leash walks in the dark, with temps that can be below zero, really suck. How can it take so long to find the perfect place to poop?) There are pros and cons for all the treatment options. But after talking to three people who paid for traditional repairs and then ended up doing TPLO on the same knee in less than 3 years (one less than 6 months), and failing to find anyone who had success with conservative management in a giant breed dog* who had bilateral tears, this was the right decision for us.
Do your homework and ask lots of questions!

* I mean people I talked to personally - anecdotal successes I read about on the web or was told about were not considered by me unless there was a way to verify the story firsthand. That doesn't mean they don't happen. I just needed to make my decision on experiences I was sure were true.

 

[Ginny]

I'd cut back on his food and treats. You can add frozen or thawed green beans to the lesser amt. of kibble. Also, are you aware that if they tear one cruciate they've about a 70% chance of tearing the other? This happened with my 3 yr. old. She had the traditional repair and did fine with the first except for the eventual tearing of the other. She ended up with patellar subluxation as a complication of the second repair. Ask about complications of each procedure type.

 

[aalvarez]

Update: limping = surgery

So, we went to another ortho this afternoon for a second opinion. Saw the chief of surgery at this particular hospital. He says the CCL is completely torn and surgery is the only way to fix it (he says he is a fairly conservative surgeon too) otherwise arthritis will develop and the other knee will go bad as well. He also felt that TPLO is really "the" option in his opinion for a dog his size as it stabilizes the knee much more and recovery time is quicker. If we had a chihuahua, we could go either way. He said he's done the other repair surgery for Newfs and other big breeds in the past when TPLO wasn't available, and the dogs typically would return for repeated surgeries. So, we will schedule surgery and hope for the best. I asked about his weight and the ortho said it would be good for him to lose 10-15 lbs. :uhoh2: He weighed in today at 148lbs. Off to buy some low calorie organic dog food. I also asked about the chances of the other knee getting blown after surgery and he said there hasn't been sufficient studies that prove the other knee will go bad as well. The surgery will stabilize his knee enough that it won't put stress on the other knee. It's more likely to happen if the slopes in the joints are steep. He also said there can be complications (top bone breaking off, infections, etc) , but they are fairly rare.

BTW--we walked into a huge lobby at the vet hospital and everyone in the room just stopped and glared at Yogi :shocker: I heard one lady say "they breed horses smaller than that dog." Clearly, there aren't many Newfs in Virginia so people get an eyeful when they see one. :crazy: