Gay tails

[Bella and Gabe]

I don't know if there has been this discussion regarding gay tails, or a Newf's tail that curves over its back, but I'm curious about the whys and wherefores and the causes of it. More specifically, is it an indication of health problems.

I know the Newfoundland dog breed standard states: "Tail--Tail set follows the natural line of the croup. The tail is broad at the base and strong. It has no kinks, and the distal bone reaches to the hock. When the dog is standing relaxed, its tail hangs straight or with a slight curve at the end. When the dog is in motion or excited, the tail is carried out, but it does not curl over the back."

The reason I'm asking is because Paige carries her tail curved over her back. She always has. She also has arthritis. My beloved Bella also carried her tail curled over her back and she had severe HD and knee problems.

None of my other three Newfs I had/have had gay tails or the hip/knee/joint problems.

I am not suggesting that I think a gay tail is a malady in itself. It just doesn't fit breed standards for showing. However I wondered if there was any corrilation between gay tails and balance if there might be skelatal problems.

Just curious if anyone knows?

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

I don't know a thing about it, but I LOVE gay tails on a Newf! I think they look so lovely! I also love the term "Gay Tails"...I'm adding that to my lexicon as I type

 

[Capri]

Gay tail has to do with in an improper tail set/croup, not with hips or knees. If the tail is set too low it'll curve down like with a whippet, if it's set too high, it'll rise up like for a tibetan mastiff. The tail should be set correctly as you want it to act as a rudder when the dog is swimming. If the tail is set too high or too low, the tail's "rudder abilities" are diminished, compromising swimming abilities in rough weather.

 

[Bella and Gabe]

Gay tail has to do with in an improper tail set/croup, not with hips or knees. If the tail is set too low it'll curve down like with a whippet, if it's set too high, it'll rise up like for a tibetan mastiff. The tail should be set correctly as you want it to act as a rudder when the dog is swimming. If the tail is set too high or too low, the tail's "rudder abilities" are diminished, compromising swimming abilities in rough weather.

That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the explanation especially as pertaining to swimming. I didn't mean to sound like I was implying it had something to do with hips and/or knees, but rather with balance when walking, i.e. curving the tail helping with balance, but not directly related to the hips/knees.

But wow...I hadn't thought about swimming and the affect of the tailset/croup placement in acting as a rudder. Paige doesn't swim so I had not even seen or thought about that.

Thanks for the information!

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

It has nothing to do with anything but how the tail is set on the dog and is not related to health issues. There does seem to be more gay tails around lately. It is a recessive trait.

 

[mulenag]

Both my dogs have gay tails. (Berners aren't supposed to have 'em either) I haven't examined Phoebe's tail closely, but Ross's has a kink also. Neither have joint or severe movement issues that I have noticed. Sometimes I think it's cute and other times I think it makes them look goofy. But either way, I haven't noticed a negative effect from it.

 

[jacqueline]

aslan carries his tail curved over his back, a breeder friend of mine told me it was a breed defect ??? but now i know he has a , "gay tail" , love that term , he does carry it down , but not often , and after he has been in the pool a little while it is straight out behind him .
jacqui,x

 

[Cascadians]

Orka's tail seems to rise and fall with his moods. When he's happy or alert or especially meeting other dogs his tail shoots way up then over. I've seen his tail in every position. He wags his tail a lot.

It got so hot he blew his coat and finally even his formerly magnificent tail thinned.

He's had 2 big growth spurts now where he got longer and his back end now seems to move differently. Soon he'll be 2 years old and we'll get everything X-rayed.

Orka's tail is his emotion flag. He has high emotions.

 

[NZNEWF]

its something ive often wondered about Tane.... could someone post a pic just so im able to make an assumption as im not quite sure ....

 

[R Taft]

Orka's tail seems to rise and fall with his moods. When he's happy or alert or especially meeting other dogs his tail shoots way up then over. I've seen his tail in every position. He wags his tail a lot.

It got so hot he blew his coat and finally even his formerly magnificent tail thinned.

He's had 2 big growth spurts now where he got longer and his back end now seems to move differently. Soon he'll be 2 years old and we'll get everything X-rayed.

Orka's tail is his emotion flag. He has high emotions.

I think when they say Gay Tail they mean it stays up all the time. Not when the dog is exited or meets someone new. I have seen one newfie and his tail is up all the time.

Lukey will put his tail up when he sees a male dog who tries to be dominant. He does that to make himself look bigger. He used to have his tail between his legs touching his chest in fear. But those are not conformation positions. Those are behavior signs/positions.

The position should be checked when the dog is standing, but relaxed

 

[Cascadians]

Thanks for the clarification Ronnie!

Ronnie, in the show ring, don't males naturally want to show off their dominance? They're all intact. Seems they'd all be strutting with tails highly plumed over and puffed up.

 

[ArtfulCharm]

I think you will mostly see the gay tail when they are moving. When standing around it will be held down, but with some curl at the bottom, then when they move or are excited it comes up over their back. I think its not that uncommon because it runs in some of the popular show lines (and of course other lines too), and all other things considered, its not the worst fault a dog could have in the show ring. So people are breeding dogs with gay tails when the good conformation outweighs the bad (the tail). Its not a desired trait, but you see it still because its not being bred out as actively as other, more undesirable traits like poor toplines, bad heads, crooked legs, etc.

I don't like a gay tail, but when you're comparing a better dog with a gay tail to a lesser dog with a good tail, I'll take the gay tail. Same with short tails, don't like them and not breed standard, but if everything else is good what are you gonna do?

Also, I think some dogs, especially intact males, will curl their tail over their back when they are REALLY excited or showing dominance. Doesn't mean they have a gay tail.

 

[ardeagold]

Cole has a very gay tail when he's happy or excited. He can gait with it out as it should be and it hangs down correctly when he's relaxed...but if people start baby talking him, or he's playing, it goes right up.

We've found he'll put the tail way up in the ring, in the early day, when he's fully rested and oh so happy to be there...it's a struggle to keep the darned tail down where it's supposed to be. But in the afternoon, if he's fortunate enough to get in Group...it's held correctly, because he's tired and is getting kind of bored with it all.

Frankie can put his tail high too when excited and happy, but it's not as "gay" as Cole's when Cole is having fun.

 

[Capri]

A high tail due to a behavioural signal is not the same as high tail set, and to an experienced viewer it will not look the same either. If in doubt: it can always be felt. The tail set is the location where the tail starts on the dog's croup.

This dog has a high tail set (see where the tail starts on the body):
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/dominant.jpg
Whereas this dog has a low tail set:
http://www.gsdinfo.co.uk/General Info/Hindquarter fig 10 thumbnai.JPG
This is a correct tail set:
http://www.ronebergcairns.com/2006onwards/general06_1133.jpg


should not happen:
http://fromoldbooks.org/r/z/34-the-newfoundland-dog-q75-500x375.jpg

And normal. This should NOT be regarded as a high tail:
http://www.dogloversusa.net/dogimages/Newfoundland.jpg


[note: these are just random pictures I grabbed from google]

-

 

[BlackLightning]

Ayasha has a gay tail. I've included some pics. Her tail is raised over her back about 90% of the time she's moving. Personally, I don't like a gay tail, but I do get comments on how she seems so "happy" because of it. Guess that's where the name comes from.

 

[Bella and Gabe]

Kaila, this is how Paige's tail is. Paige's is ALWAYS plummed over her back with the rare exception of when she's just standing looking out a window. Anytime she's moving, though, it is always curled over her back.

As I mentioned, I'm not worried about it, but I've just been curious - especially since breed standards state it should not.

Gay tail or flag tail...aren't our Newfs beautiful!

 

[Cascadians]

The "this should not happen" happens all the time with my boy, especially when he's in high spirits and meeting other dogs, usually on the trigger verge of play. I looked up "dominance" signs and he has some but not all or even the majority.

Also been very carefully watching all types of dogs at dog parks and never heard any make his sounds UNTIL I went to a Pull Clinic with huskies recently. Good Lord he sounds like a husky and a wolf! And curls his tail like a husky. And wants to play with huskies more than any other type of dog.

Makes me think environmental influence, thought transference, atmospheric karmic dharmic osmosis is even more powerful than genetics. I love huskies and have an imitation husky.

Next time I'm around a Newf knowledgeable conformation person, will ask to see if his tail set is normal. But I think it's his emotions governing his tail.

 

[RiverTheNewf]

This is actually really helpful!

I hope it's ok to post this in your thread, but when we were at the Renaissance Festival last week, someone said, "You know he has a gay tail, right?" I was thinking about the comment later, and I was trying to figure out if he has a gay tail or not. He sometimes will curl it up and slightly over when meeting new dogs or really excited, but for the most part he carries it like this when moving:

Excited it looks like this (sorry, playing tug in the house was the only way I could get him excited enough to get his tail up). Plus he's still growing. Is this "gay tail"?

 

[ardeagold]

Cole...being all happy which is what he does ALL the time when playing

Cole (on the left looking at the pic) normal tail...which is how it looks about 60% of the time

Cole tail down when at rest:

 

[Cascadians]

Fun pix! Think I should suggest a "Pin the Tail on the Newf" game for our club's upcoming Howloween party.