First litter - yikes!

Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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Sun Valley said:
I knew that sheep don't have tails...I just wanted to see Nessa reply, since she quoted my whole message...:)

Cindy did you find the heat mats? Its also called a Lecto heat mat.

LA
Click to expand...

Yep, found it under Lectro though not under kane :)
Might have to get one if the little queens ever come into season!
 
NessaM

NessaM

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Sun Valley said:
I knew that sheep don't have tails...I just wanted to see Nessa reply, since she quoted my whole message...:)
Click to expand...
They DO have tails! But we band ours, (constricting the blood flow so that the tail dies, then falls off), when they are babies, as it is cleaner and helps prevent fly strike - especially during times like birth, when they are adults.
 
Capri

Capri

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Final Minniepie count is 8 pups. I'm sure Zoe will come an post lots and lots of pics when she's got the time :).
 
Piratebears

Piratebears

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Hi all,so far so good - just very tired - hence not much posting.
Most were born around the 590g mark,a few 650g and one tiny 450g girl.
All gaining slow but steady now and helping to toilet them.
Mum is tired,even fell asleep sitting up yesterday!
A few have bald armpits? is this usual ?
 
Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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I had to go back and look at newborn pics..but yes...the hair is very thin in their little armpits at first (I had one pic of one with her fronts stretched out, and you could call it a bald armpit I guess), and she was 2 lbs at birth, so it's not a maturity thing. How much are they gaining a day?
I've often found that on about the third day for some reason, Mom's milk is low, and then comes in better, but if they are not gaining an ounce a day at least, I supplement them with a bottle, just a half an ounce or so, a couple of times a day. I use a human bottle with a gerber nipple.
 
Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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You did get a count on all the placentas? So you know that they all came? And you are taking her temp to make sure she does not run a fever?
 
Piratebears

Piratebears

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Yes,counted - all but one came out so we had an oxytocin jab and she past the last one.
She's much better today = phew - is learning to sleep whilst they fed.
I've jut converted - 28g is 1 ounce almost all are gaining at least this now,but 1 is not - would you supplement at day 3? do you use lactol ? was worried about upsetting tummies - but realise if not putting on enough weight it is life threatening
 
Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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To be honest..I supplement if they are not gaining two ounces a day...but that's just me. Other breeders may be comfortable with less gain. And if you have one that isn't gaining at all..I would for sure..or at the very least take the others away and give that one extra chances to nurse. I use a home made formula..I am not close to a place to get formula.
I mix...one cup of whole fat milk
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
The yolk of one egg...just the yoke.
I put that in a blender, and whirl it. Let the foam settle. Then I strain it through a nylon stocking..to get the egg fibers out ...and heat it to body temp...
If you don't strain it..it will just plug the nipple and the baby will be frustrated trying.
If I am going to be supplementing regularly..I would make the recipe x 4 or something and keep it in the fridge. It takes some time to teach them to bottle feed. I cup their little jaw in my hand and hold the bottle between my thumb and forefinger of the same hand..so that they are not bobbing around trying to figure it out. I like the plastic bottles..so that I can give it a tiny squeeze and get the milk to flow into their mouth so that they understand why there is something in their mouth, or they will simply reject it. Sometimes..it takes a few tries.
This formula is adequate for babies that are still nursing off mom..if they were orphans...you would want to add vitamins or use a commercial. I have one breeder friend that has access to fresh goats milk, and she uses that straight.
Dog milk is MUCH higher in fat than cows...and that's why you add the extra oil and egg yolk in..to try to bring it up in calories to the level of dog milk, which is very very rich. IF puppy stools become loose, cut back a bit..you will know..they will stain the bedding. Normal puppy poo looks like it has sesame seeds in it..if it gets watery or foamy...that can be overfeeding...but when they are also on the mother, tummy upset is minimal.
 
Capri

Capri

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I wouldn't start supplementing unless absolutely necessary. Mum's milk is SO much better than any supplement you can ever get. You "only" have 8 (=a good sized litter), and if Minnie has enough milk, I would just make sure the pup gaining least weight just stays on the nipple the longest. However IF the pup is clearly getting weak (not suckling very enthusiastically) or dry (skin staying up if you pinch it) or loosing weight I would intervene. It's much more important to look at the trend of weight-gain rather than individual numbers.. And always measure the weight at the same moment i.e. always either BEFORE/AFTER feeding, and before/after pooing.. as then you know what you're comparing the values to.. (so you won't get worried if your pup's weight doesn't seem to increase when you measure after feeding before pooing as value 1 and before feeding after pooing as value 2.. etc..)
 
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Windancer

Windancer

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Another issue....I have had problems with anything I have totally bottle fed....I wonder what others experiences are..
 
Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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I had one litter many many years ago..nine pups...and the mom had NO milk whatsoever..they got a bit of colostrum, but she dried up the second day and had virtually nothing. No clue why. Anyway..she raised them, and they did suckle, but there was no milk in the teats so they were essentially completely bottle fed. I found that they had a lot of loose stool...like constantly soft poos..and it was hard to keep them clean (she didnt do that either..unfortunately!) I finally gave them each a yogurt feed every day..either by mixing it into milk in the bottle or by giving it to them in a pan when they were old enough. Whenever mom left the box..Grandma stepped in and cleaned them (the old treasure..lol...what a good granny she was!) I would keep mom out for half an hour or so and she would have them sparkling again. (That's over 20 years ago now..eeeek!)
They grew up fine. LIved to normal ages. When they got to the point of pan feeding normal foods..the loose stools stopped. I used the formula I listed above.

All other litters have just been supplemented. If I have over 6, it's always pretty much a given that I will have to help. I don't usually just help the little one though, I will give the bigger ones a bottle feed and have the little one get in and drain mom..and then top them off too...just keeping the bigger ones away long enough that the smaller gets an equal chance at breast milk as well. I've found the bigger pups really push the small ones off and away. I am completely unable to "leave it alone" until I see a pup getting dehydrated...I go by weights, and if it's not gaining, I help. The bottle fed pups gained about 2 ounces a day...and grew normally in spite of having the loose stools...aged normally etc.
 
Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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A book I really like,,and have had for years..is Canine Reproduction by Phylis Holst DVM. It's got a great section on newborns etc, calculating amounts of formula etc.
That's where my formula recipe is from.
 
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