catalpa tree

angie j

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estacey

New member
Wow, those are stunning. Doubt they would do well in a 3 or lower zone.
Good to see you on here Angie.
 

saddust

New member
Wow thanks! I have one in my backyard and never really knew what it was!!! Mine does produce the cigar pods.... Thanks!
 

Wayne A

New member
There beautiful Angie. I'm likely way out in space but the first thing I thought of was lilacs they won''t produce blossoms if the ground is too acid.Lime or bone meal will fix.
Just what came to my head it's OK to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.LOL
 

angie j

New member
I'm likely way out in space but...(soil)is too acid.Lime or bone meal will fix.
"That was an awsome good try Wayne and I'm going to test the PH...why not? I DO want another tree...lol. I think the soil is right but it's a cheap test.

" location – it likes rich, moist, slightly acid soil and just a touch of shade. In other words, it is an edge-of-forest tree that won't survive in deep forest, and which does well in the open meadow and lawn only with plenty of water,.."

My research says they aren't prefered for 'orimental' plants because of: 1) the tree litter. and 2) the 'abundance' of little trees that they produce....Ahhhhh, why me??!!..lol

"Being "invasive" means that the plant .. can escape cultivation and survive on its own, can spread widely, ..."
 

BoundlessNewfs

New member
We have some mimosa trees I'd be willing to send to you! They grow fast, have sweet smelling flowers, and leave all kinds of "litter" on the ground...as well as being "invasive". Those trees must be cousins!
 

angie j

New member
We have some mimosa trees I'd be willing to send to you! They grow fast, have sweet smelling flowers, and leave all kinds of "litter" on the ground...as well as being "invasive". Those trees must be cousins!
I'd love one, but it wouldn't grow in my 'Zone'.. and my microclimates are reserved for Magnolias :)
 

Garden_girl

New member
Got your PM, Angie! :D

You said it doesn't produce seeds, you didn't say if it flowered for you, I assume it did.
Do you know how old they are? What type of soil is it in-they like a rich, sandy loam which says to me-well drained soil, they like dappled shade, too.

I would like more info-if it bloomed, when it bloomed (like early spring) are you meeting the culture requirements? I have a wonderful book on trees and shrubs, but before I would offer an explanation, I need more details.
Also-was your spring a cold one? These trees are almost 'weedy' in the south, so there could be a reasonably easy answer.

Plants get reclassified all the time-this one is
now classified as C. Cordifolia. It is in the genus Bigonia -weird coincidence that I just bought a plant this weekend in that same genus (a houseplant). I had been researching the genus last night.
 

KodysGrandma

New member
Angie J- First, good to see you back. No help on your tree but I almost confused it with one we used to have- catawba (sp?), nasty thing that brought huge worms every year. Some people around here liked them for the worms- fishing. After one year I cut the "blank" thing down, too nasty.
 

angie j

New member
they like a rich, sandy loam which says to me-well drained soil, they like dappled shade, too.

I would like more info-if it bloomed, when it bloomed

Also-was your spring a cold one?

Plants get reclassified all the time-this one is
now classified as C. Cordifolia. It is in the genus Bigonia -weird coincidence that I just bought a plant this weekend in that same genus (a houseplant). I had been researching the genus last night.
SUPER sandy soil here.... I hate it!!! I can't say it it's 'rich' but it is 'borderline to a mixed forest'. It gets the dappled shade ... more than I think is good for it and it is certainly not benefiting by this. The tree is sparce although it flowers well, but has poor branch growth and is far from the 'grandure' of the specimines in the links I posted. I want to put a new one in a more sunny place that is low lying and will get lots of water (but same soil conditions so lots of drainage).

Yes, it IS in flower at present and flowered last year as well, which is when I noticed that there were no seedpods and wondered about it. We have several resident hummers and lots of bees as well, so pollination shouldn't be an issue. I'm confused that it is healthy enough to flower but not produce seeds.

Spring was not 'warm'... but not as bad as last year when we got a cold snap that damaged alot of the flowering trees and produced a bad fruit crop in the area. Still, there were 'some' flowers.

We are in zone 5 and the tree is acceptable in our area. I have seen others.. althought I knew little about them.
 

angie j

New member
I almost confused it with one we used to have- catawba (sp?), nasty thing that brought huge worms every year. Some people around here liked them for the worms- fishing.

Thanks for the welcome... all :) It feels good to "feel better".
The same has been said (in my reseaarch) of 'this' tree, about the worms... perhaps it 'is' the same one?
 

Garden_girl

New member
Thanks for the welcome... all :) It feels good to "feel better".
The same has been said (in my reseaarch) of 'this' tree, about the worms... perhaps it 'is' the same one?
Yes it is the same. I did learn something very interesting-the Catalpa worm can literally defoliate a catalpa tree and the catalpa tree is it's only host. Unless it can adapt to other trees, the catalpa worm (Sphinx moth) would be extinct without the tree. The worm is prized in the south for fishing thus the common name "the Fist Bait Tree". Cool, huh? :clown:

the tree is sparce although it flowers well, but has poor branch growth and is far from the 'grandure' of the specimines in the links I posted.
You are an astute observer, Angie. Yes that is a characteristic of C. Bignonia, I read that yesterday. It is SO weird that I bought this unusual plant at the nursery on Sunday and you are asking about one of it's relatives today. The plant I bought is called Yellow bells -Mayan Gold. Bignonia amarilla. In order to get branches with my plant, I need to cut it back "hard" in the spring, but they will still flower profusely without all the branches.

Because these plants flower in clusters, they are very attractive to pollinators and they are self fertile BUT just because you have a lot of flowers, it doesn't necessarily mean you will have a lot of seeds. Unfortunately what little I could find about reproduction with Catalpa speciosa says that this tree falls under that category. From what I have read, it probably has to do with the size of the inflorescences.

Things that can influence fruiting:

Disease, insects and rodents can alter seed production. You didn't mention any of these things. With disease I'm talking about fungus, wilt, rot, blight, etc. Insects -there are insects that will attack flowers only, which in turn, will stop seed production, especially look for gall on your tree. Many of my honeysuckles at our old home would flower, but not seed, because of gall. I have never seen any kind of gall on a Catalpa though. :shrug:

Culture-as I said, this tree is almost weedy in areas, even here in WI, it can be weedy if conditions are right. I don't think that's the problem. Unless you are having a problem with other plants, shrubs, trees not producing seeds, you could look to culture or soil problems-but these guys will grow in almost any type soil. Usually, if a plant is growing in conditions that doesn't suit it, it just will not bloom-not the problem here.

Some plants need specific pollinators to reproduce (I'm talking certain species of insects) again- not the problem.

Genetic reasons like the one described above.

Climate stress can be an issue for seed production. Last year, you may have had adequate temperatures to produce flowers and temps too cool to produce "fruit" which is what the seed is. We are having a problem this year with tomatoes setting fruit. We are having an extraordinarily cool summer this year. I have one lousy tomato on one of my plants, even though it had several blossoms on it at one time. Some plants won't bounce back from that because even though we have a hot August, the days are getting shorter and the life cycle (flower/fruit) is coming to an end.

My advice would be to keep a keen eye on seed production this year. You may get a few seeds if you keep your eyes peeled and birds don't steal them or the wind doesn't blow them away. One thing I would try- tie netting around any green seed pod you find, allow a lot of room for seed growth, they can get very long. You will get better germination if you can allow the seed to stay on the tree all winter, rather than trying to start your seed in the fall -but try both ways-the goal is to get your tree, right?


I have a book recommendation for you or any other serious gardener. It is called Hortus Third. It came out way back in the 70's, back when I could never afford such a book, having just graduated from school. It is known as the horticulturist's bible. It reads like a college textbook, but you will never find any more thorough reference to plant identification and culture for horticulture in North America. It is still an expensive book-but thankfully the internet brings us more sources to purchase from and you can find it dirt cheap-pun intended. :D

Erika- LOL!!!!!
 
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angie j

New member
THanks for all your hard work Erika... I realy DID try to research it but came up kinda empty, simmillar to your 'inconclusive' findings. No 'easy' direction for this mystery.

Other trees are fruiting well this year, so, perhaps things will go better if I'm patient and it was a problem related to last years 'cold snap'. The tree looks healthy in all other ways; One tree is missing some bark from last winter but nothing has 'made a home' there yet.

Did your book happen to offer making soft wood cuttings as an option. I'm presuming it's unlikely since its classified as a 'weed' and invasive species..lol.

I did cut it back very heavily (1/3) this year and have alot of new growth, so you're bang on with the pruning being an issue. I will prune another 1/3 next year if it shows it is 'happy' with the change. It IS growing from the BASE of the tree though and I'm pondering if it's a whole new growth cycle I've brought on and I should choose only 1 stem and allow it to grow for a few years with only minimal pruning... what do you think?

One of the 2 trees is in a pen with our sheep, which we didn't concern ourselves with, as it was implied in my research that "even deer won't eat the bark"... I guess sheep 'will', so I'm concerned about it surviving the comming winter; I would take cuttings from that one.

Thanks for the reference on the book. I'm a collector too. I get alot of goodies at second hand stores. People will toss alot of things when cleaning out an older home for a move ;)
 
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Garden_girl

New member
Angie- au contraire-rodents, bunnies, wildlife, DO like the bark of the catalpa tree, only the roots are poisonous (I believe). There are some herbal advantages to the Catalpa, too.

Sorry Angie-my Erika reference in my post was for my dear friend, Erika-who posted right above me....seems she has the right soil, the right conditions, the right everything, for every plant-she is SUCH a nut! Actually, my name is Paula, but you wouldn't know that since I never sign my name, not your fault.

There was a university study on why Catalpa never really fruits much in spite of all the flowers. They concluded that it is the size of the inflorescences that makes the difference. It could be the reason, but there are some trees that will produce a boatload of fruit, so I think there are some plants in the species that will produce larger inflorescences-which seems reasonable to me, genetically speaking. Root cuttings and seed are the way to propagate Catalpa. Good luck with your project, Angie!
 

angie j

New member
Paula... I knew that too!!! lol... I'm bad with names to people I get actual 'faces to' so try not to be offended ;)

I took cutting today.... this time with no hormone... if they don't take it will be 'with' next try... I'll let you know.

Thanks for the info on the inflorescences... I know the 'umbrella tree' which I believe is the 'same' tree grafted rarely produces ANY flowers at all... I wonder if that's the tree they did the study on... Do you have a link?

Angie J
 
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angie j

New member
There was a university study on why Catalpa never really fruits much in spite of all the flowers. They concluded that it is the size of the inflorescences that makes the difference.
Well done on the research GardenGirl, as, it appears that inflorescences on my tree did indeep fall off! No noticeable blight or reason as to why. I fear I am not to get a seed from one of my trees! My cuttings are still alive :) JUst in case is there an offer from anyone to mail me some seeds when the time is ripe??? Pretty please :)

Angie J
 

ardeagold

New member
We are LOADED with them (we're not too far from Erika, and the soil would be similar)...and we have a lot of "volunteers" too. Ours all do have flowers and the cigar shaped pods. Interestingly they get their leaves last in the spring, and lose them earlier in the autumn (even if the caterpillers don't get to them first).

They also get what are called Catalpa catapillars/ "worms"...which become sphinx moths. These "worms" only live on Catalpa trees...and will defoliate quickly. (But it will also refoliate) Supposedly, they're great fish bait! LOL

Want seeds? I can send you a bunch of pods..if you want me to.
 
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