Broke up a fight between the boys.

[suse]

And the only one with a puncture wounds? Me. Four of them...two on the front of my leg and two on the back. From one good bite.

As I was pulling Seamus off of Bentley, Bentley tried to bite Seamus and got me instead. Most times they tolerate each other, but Seamus has attacked him seriously, outside only, three times in the past two weeks.

If Bentley tries to play with him or me, Seamus goes nuts and really goes after him and Bentley is now fighting back. It is a scary site.

Question...do I find a new home for Bentley or just keep them separated when outside....which doubles my exercise and potty time and not what I was looking forward to when having two dogs. :darn:

I have to admit, I feel like a failure. So many of you have more than one dog and I can't quite get it to work here.

 

[4ondafloor]

First Sue..DON'T blame yourself. Not at all.
Through the advice of a mentor here on NN but behind the scenes, I was able to work through an issue that presented iteself between two females after Pae went through her first season.
I took a nasty bite to the hand myself. One that required a trip to the ER because it went just about clear through my hand. Dummy me got between the two of them trying to break it up. It was NOT a pretty sight for about a week. It was never clear who actually bit me in the fray but I'm guessing it was Pae because immediately after she realized I had been nailed she became very apologetic. Neither INTENDED to bite me. I got in the way.
You know that old saying.. ask ten people and you'll get ten different answers?
I'm going to PM you who helped me and who I suggest you talk to. She has pretty good insight.
Don't give up and don't keep blaming yourself. You just need some guidance about setting boundaries.

 

[suse]

Thanks 4ondafloor! I know Bentley didn't mean to get me. He stopped as soon as he realised it wasn't Seamus. I think I'm most upset with Seamus...he is being such a bully. I posted too soon after the fight and wasn't thinking rationally enough to be making a public post! I'm going to PM your recommendation and appreciate your advice.

 

[4ondafloor]

Not at all Sue... There's a wealth of knowledge here (as you know)
I didn't post my incident last year because often times people get too judgemental.
There are things you can do. Some worked for me while others didn't. We worked through it and life became normal again.
My issues came NOT from newf on newf but from mutt rescue on newf. I had to learn what the triggers were and what the body language was telling me so that I could be proactive instead of reactive.
You'll be fine and so will the boys. It's one thing at a time.. Take a deep breath and exhale....just remember that your feelings project to them and may add to the situation. It will all work out by using the proper tools.
(((HUGS)))

 

[RiverTheNewf]

We believe in you! You've done great with the boys so far. I know with the right help you can have the 2 dog family you were wanting.

 

[brownnewf]

Last year I was a having major problems here with Sherman and Leroy.
I was to the point where I thought I was going to have to get rid of one of them which broke my heart.
I posted here and got a lot of great advice. I also contacted a few trainers.
We did a lot more training and set up some stricter rules.
It did take some time, but the boys have not had a confrontation in a long time. (knock on wood)
They are not best friends, but they can live in the same house together now.
I hope it works out for you.

 

[Erika]

Gandolph and Gunther had a short bout of the I dont like yous too...........we found the triggers, set the boundries and it took about 2 weeks but now they snuggle together, except when theres bones, easy fix........separate rooms.hope all tuerns out well, keep us posted

 

[KodysGrandma]

We too have had trouble in the past with jealousies over us mostly. I have been bitten, so has my husband. We too got it worked out for the most part. The really serious case we kept apart. There were NOT Newfs incidentally. The one thing I learned relative to our laws is- don't tell them it was a dog that you were bitten by. Here, at least, it leads to all sorts of nasty things like quarantine and a fight against destroying the dog. So we have dreamed up all sorts of wild reasons- last one was an errant chain saw. They can't really accuse you of lying so even if they think it's a crock they don't say too much. Good luck, you can make it work out fine, keep at it.

 

[sara722003]

good advice on this board. I,too, witnessed a situation this weekend with my unneutered 4 year old black male (his breeder still shows him in AKC conformation, so I agreed to not neuter him)---but that is causing me needless strife at our off-leash park.

New family showed up with a 2 year old Landseer. They were 'thrilled' the 2 Newfs could be together, but after asking quickly if their boy was neutered (and he was NOT), I immediately went on high-alert as that young guy decided to pawed BossMan on the rear and then tested his ability to 'mount'. BossMan angrily told him to stuff it---> young, testosterone filled boys are usually deaf, so that went no where, and we were going to witness an ugly fight if I immediately didn't yank BossMan around and remove him from the park. Not willing to put my dog at any risk while the testosterone makes them 'nutty'. I'll start pleading with my breeder to be able to neuter the guy soon; our lives would be so much better.

My sympathies when you have dogs in the same household. I'm sorry you were bitten, but you were also brave to step into the middle of a dog tussle to sort them out. It's down right frightening when that happens, so I admire people willing to put an end to it immediately, whatever their own risk.

 

[KS Newf]

I am so sorry you had to deal with this. I am glad you posted because we can all learn from the wonderful advice here. Do not blame yourself. People absolutely have these problems whether it be Newfie or not!

 

[ardeagold]

I hope things work out for you and the boys. With some work, I believe it can.

Also, do NOT get in the middle of a dog fight. I'm the ONLY one in this house who hasn't gotten bitten. We used to have two Goldens that fought like crazy (both passed away many years ago), and Jacques and my son both got bitten trying to reach in and break up the fights...more than once.

IF they're fighting, I've found that loud noises (like banging two metal pans together right next to their heads - while keeping your body OUT OF THE WAY) will sometimes stop them just long enough to throw a slip lead over one head (the aggressor). Sometimes a water hose will do it...but never worked for us. Some say use an air horn. Never tried it.

Do not ever use a shock collar, or a zap of any kind...or pepper spray, or even vinegar and water, while they're fighting or are getting ready to fight. It makes them MORE angry. (Learned this from Field Trial people/hunters and never tried it anyway)

IF there are two adults...get behind the fighting pair...one person per dog, and grab the rear legs and LIFT up, high, so the head drops down, and they let go. Then wheelbarrow that dog backwards until you can slip a lead over it's head. It can't reach you to bite if you've got the legs high enough and you keep moving backward. With Goldens the leg height would be about waist high on me...and I'm 5'8". With Newfs...higher.

Yes...you might feel you're going to hurt your dog's joints or something, but it's better than having two of them a bloody chewed up mess!

Oh and the most important thing...no screaming, yelling, screeching. KEEP CALM (in other words SHUT UP)...move fast, and you may just avert disaster.

However, the goal isn't to learn how to break up a dog fight...it's to be aware of your dogs and their body language/behaviors and avoid them to begin with!

 

[4ondafloor]

Thank you Donna!! (and those that have dealt with similar things)
I think its very important that Sue not feel she is alone here.
Those of us with multiples have ALL had issues in the past. We learn what triggers to watch for and how to react before it escalates.
I was telling Sue that after I learned to be proactive instead of reactive, things seemed to fall into place. The Little Freak Show still tests her limits but the huge difference is that I learned how to deal with her immediately BEFORE things happen. I now watch constantly for subtle signs.
You just stay resolved Sue. You can do this and the boys can learn to take direction from you. It might not seem like it now but they CAN live in harmony.:hugs:Just find the method that works for you.

 

[ardeagold]

Oh, and one thing I always did (after a very good trainer told me to) was to put the two "fighters" back together in a room WITH you monitoring, after about 15-30 minutes. That gives the adrenaline a chance to subside and the "pain" starts to make itself known. They don't feel like fighting right then, and will often just go to their own corners and lick their wounds.

Clean them up separately...before you put them back together, and DO NOT baby one over the other. Treat them like they're both at fault. Just be all business, no babying.

Of course we learned all this (and it's worked with any potential and real scuffles we've had in the past 5 years) AFTER we had separated some who didn't get along...for days...hoping they'd get over it. They didn't. It got worse and then they were separated for life, because they developed a visceral hatred for one another.

We found that by putting them right back together, while we're there monitoring their behavior, got them to a tolerance point and we never had another fight between the same two. Grumbles, yes. Eyeballing, yes. But nothing more, ever. If they're still touchy after a few days, then if you leave the house, separate them (crates in the same room are fine). But put them back together when you come home, and keep your eyes open for the "excitement" trigger, or the "door" trigger...or whatever trigger you notice. No happy voice coming home...no acknowledging one or the other...just go about your business, until things are settled again and they're not hyper to see you.

And please don't use the crate for punishment for one or the other...or both. After a fight, use different rooms to clean them up, then like I said, bring them back together with you in a room for a calm hour or so of TV or something like that. Throwing one in a crate while the other is still out, doesn't make them any "friendlier".

 

[Newfs Forever]

This is a very interesting topic. I would love to know more about body language and what we as humans should look for.

Often times, I think we try to look at our animals and think of their behavior in human terms, because it is a different manner of thinking.

At one point in time, I had 2 newfs, Annie and Dexter, and 1 BMD, Blazey. Annie wasn't very mobile and she was elderly with joint problems. But, she NEVER growled or warned the other 2, that I know of. She was there, and it seems like she had an aura or a presence. Once she passed, Dex (newf) was vying for alpha (I think) and Blazey (BMD) wanted the position. Dex would periodically go after Blazey, they would NEVER connect, but I could never quite figure out what was the trigger. It was never an everyday occurence. Still can't figure it out.

All three, unfortunately are gone. I don't know if any of you behaviorists would care to chime in here.

 

[Newfs Forever]

Sorry, I should probably have opened a new thread on this. I did not mean to hijack the topic.

My apologies!

 

[4ondafloor]

Sorry, I should probably have opened a new thread on this. I did not mean to hijack the topic.

My apologies!

No apologies needed.
It's a great suggestion actually. Why don't you take the lead and start a thread and have everyone who wants to contribute, tell their story of what they experienced and what works for them.

 

[Lori]

I hope things work out for you and the boys. With some work, I believe it can.

Also, do NOT get in the middle of a dog fight. I'm the ONLY one in this house who hasn't gotten bitten. We used to have two Goldens that fought like crazy (both passed away many years ago), and Jacques and my son both got bitten trying to reach in and break up the fights...more than once.

IF they're fighting, I've found that loud noises (like banging two metal pans together right next to their heads - while keeping your body OUT OF THE WAY) will sometimes stop them just long enough to throw a slip lead over one head (the aggressor). Sometimes a water hose will do it...but never worked for us. Some say use an air horn. Never tried it.

Do not ever use a shock collar, or a zap of any kind...or pepper spray, or even vinegar and water, while they're fighting or are getting ready to fight. It makes them MORE angry. (Learned this from Field Trial people/hunters and never tried it anyway)

IF there are two adults...get behind the fighting pair...one person per dog, and grab the rear legs and LIFT up, high, so the head drops down, and they let go. Then wheelbarrow that dog backwards until you can slip a lead over it's head. It can't reach you to bite if you've got the legs high enough and you keep moving backward. With Goldens the leg height would be about waist high on me...and I'm 5'8". With Newfs...higher.

Yes...you might feel you're going to hurt your dog's joints or something, but it's better than having two of them a bloody chewed up mess!

Oh and the most important thing...no screaming, yelling, screeching. KEEP CALM (in other words SHUT UP)...move fast, and you may just avert disaster.

However, the goal isn't to learn how to break up a dog fight...it's to be aware of your dogs and their body language/behaviors and avoid them to begin with!

This is exactly what our trainer/owner told us to do at the daycare where I work. Fortunately I haven't had to use this yet. We do the loud voices and yelling before we get to them. Usually that has been enough to stop them, as they are not in a all out fight yet. We are getting the air horns to try also.

 

[ardeagold]

This is exactly what our trainer/owner told us to do at the daycare where I work. Fortunately I haven't had to use this yet. We do the loud voices and yelling before we get to them. Usually that has been enough to stop them, as they are not in a all out fight yet. We are getting the air horns to try also.

We learned over the many years with many dogs, and much advice from friends who are active in Field Trials. Goldens are much more vicious and do much more damage when they fight ... so we had to learn to keep things under control, and if a fight started (and we had a few...but not many, thankfully), what to do to get them apart and to keep calm in the household without having to separate them for life.

We made our mistakes early on, but over time, have gotten much better at reading the dog's body language and signals, and stopping a problem before it escalates.

 

[Jorge's mum]

really hope you can work this out and what fab advice you have been given there's so much experience here big hugs xxxx

Not at all Sue... There's a wealth of knowledge here (as you know)
I didn't post my incident last year because often times people get too judgemental.
There are things you can do. Some worked for me while others didn't. We worked through it and life became normal again.
My issues came NOT from newf on newf but from mutt rescue on newf. I had to learn what the triggers were and what the body language was telling me so that I could be proactive instead of reactive.
You'll be fine and so will the boys. It's one thing at a time.. Take a deep breath and exhale....just remember that your feelings project to them and may add to the situation. It will all work out by using the proper tools.
(((HUGS)))

yes its not good when people are too judgemental seems to be an easy thing to do via the net! glad you were able to work through you problems

 

[4ondafloor]

Speaking of getting them back together in the same room...I can add here (and again it's what worked for me) that instead of focusing on one of them I focused on both. I put each one on a training lead. They each had 20 feet of lead. That put them in close proximity and on equal ground because neither had free roam of the room. Both were teathered. If one postured over the other or they even so much as gave one another the "stink eye", they were reeled in.
That's not to say that it was easy reeling in 20 feet of lead while the other had 20 feet too LOL we had to move FAST. Still, it let them both know that the behavior had a consequence. Once we stepped in and put both in a sit/stay we could quell the snit and move forward. It took both the DH and I working on tandem though. I couldn't accomplish this on my own. I took two of us, one for each brat.
This was but one of several things we tried.