Blind Puppy

[Blacknewfs]

We have another litter of puppies under the care of Newf Friends...these ones are huskies, born in our care 3 weeks ago. Mom, Hera, is the Siberian Husky we rescued along with Hudson the Newf from horrible conditions in QC. Everything has gone well with the litter of 8 pups, they are thriving, and their vet appt yesterday went very well. They are looking and acting like 5 week old pups, not 3 week old ones. The only problem is one of the pups is not developing as quickly as the rest -- she's doing fine for her age, just quite a bit behind the others. At this point it is looking like she is blind. The vet says to wait another week, she may grow out of it, but chances are she will be blind. Mom is a blue eyed beauty, which apparently puts pups at a high risk of blindness, so the odds are not in Sprocket's favour that she will be able to see.

Has anyone had a pup that had vision issues this young, then grew out of it?

Also, Hera (the mom) is underweight. She is 45 lbs (should be 52-55), and eating 8 cups of Orijen a day...anymore than that and she gets diarrhea. We have started adding other bulky food (cheap food) to try to get more carbs into her to increase her weight. She is also getting yogurt which helps keep things firm, but she just doesn't seem to be able to tolerate more than 8 cups of kibble, even though she wants to eat more. The pups are eating gruel so that will reduce some of the burden on Mom, but she still has a few weeks of nursing ahead of her, and she needs to bulk up. Any tips to get some meat on her bones, without causing gastro upset? I have suggested her foster mom try satin balls, so we will see if she tolerates that.

Here's Hera and her pups - Agent Snowball, Mr. Slushy Pants, Sprocket, Delilah, Minnie, Luna, Mokey and Athena.

 

[Sun Valley]

Sandra,

I know Sibes are prone to eye problems, but I have no experience with blindness

The first thing that comes to mind though is a nutritional problem with the puppy because the Mother was under weight and obviously not fed properly.. Without a definitive diagnosis it will be difficult tell if it will be permanent or not.

Good luck...they're adorable!

Lou Ann

 

[Pipelineozzy]

What is he seeing that makes him think the pup is blind? Is there any possibility of distemper?

 

[Blacknewfs]

The pup is walking into walls, not holding her head the way the other pups do, tripping over things, using her nose to find mom, etc. She did a few tests in her office to assess her vision, and wasn't getting much of a response. Because the pup is so young she didn't want to do too many tests, but will do more when she goes back in two weeks time for a follow-up.

Now that the vet has said what the issue is, it is very obvious when you watch the pup that it is blind. It makes sense really. She is otherwise healthy, and is developmentally fine for 3 weeks of age....just the other pups are ahead of where they should be at this point, and she is the only one who isn't.

Edited to add: Also Cindy, there are no signs of distemper. The pup is healthy.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Do you know if the dam was vaccinated for distemper? I've seen only one real distemper case in a young pup...and it was brought in for exactly what you are talking about. Unvaccinated dam we think, or no colostrum for this particular pup, and the rest of the litter we could not find out about as the BYB would not answer our calls. We found out about a pup of the same breed and the same age in a city clinic that was diagnosed as distemper also, but that was all we ever found out...and did not know if it was from the same litter or not. The pup that came in was about 6 weeks, and the only clinical sign we had was blindness, and then at the next visit...we found hardpad. They got the pup at 5 weeks, and thought it was just "clumsy". It had NO reaction in it's eyes at all when we checked, but was actually very good at maneuvering in it's own environment...totally lost if they moved anything. It did not appear ill until it was older...it was just blind, and the runt. The owners didn't believe us when we said distemper because they did not know about that particular symptom...nor did I, but the vet I work with had worked in a Northern community and had seen it before.

 

[Blacknewfs]

Interesting, thanks Cindy. I will talk to her vet about it. Hera was not vaccinated on intake because she was pregnant, and given where she came from, I doubt she has ever been vaccinated.

 

[Ivoryudx]

Blindness can also be caused from infection while in utero. It does not have to effect all the pups, but can effect one or two. Thats what the Vets suspect happened with our very own Kilrain here on NewfNet.

Given the Husky breeds predisposition for blindness, it more than likely is genetic but there are multiple things that can cause it, just as Cindy said, it can be from Distemper as well. We've found that A LOT of the BYB's and puppymills give their own shots. Its very hard to tell if they have quality shots to start with, if the vaccine has been handled properly, or if they gave them too much or too little. IF the list of shots that were provided for Kilrain was correct he was over vaccinated at far too young of an age. Its just hard to tell what these BYB's do. It was very obvious to the Vet Eye Specialists that Kilrain's eyes never developed completely. Our biggest problem with him was keeping people from carrying him around when he was so little. He had to learn to walk on a leash and trust in following people. You can't carry Newfs as long as you can a Husky, but we needed to work that sooner rather than later and Art & Sharon built from there. Crate training is essential as well, to give them a safe comfortable place for them to be when they are no longer with their littermates and mom.

Thank You for helping these guys!

 

[R Taft]

Absolutely gorgeous pics, no help regarding blind pups...........Bless you for caring and doing such a great job

 

[Connie w Tuck]

To put weight on mom - have you tried Satin Balls. There was a web-site someone posted a long time ago about putting weight on a dog and I think it was a Lo-chin (can't spell) website. Most of the recipes had cream cheese in it. So they are high in fat.
Very cute pups. Hope the one gets her sight.

 

[ardeagold]

Ray (Golden) was blind from birth and sounds exactly like this pup. He was much slower developing mentally than the others as well. It took him longer to "understand" things.

To increase his weight we fed him cottage cheese in separate amounts in between eating the gruel with the other pups. To this day (and he's 7), he still gets 4 small meals a day. He had trouble with vomiting small bits about an hour after meals on just two. He has none of that with 4. With the addition of the cottage cheese to the meals, he caught up in size rapidly.

He got a lot of one on one with Momma and humans when he was very small. As he matured, he got less and less dependent on others.

He's grown to be quite independent. Knows his way around the property as well as the others. He does get "strange" during windy weather...and also heavy rain storms. We think it throws off his other senses that he's grown to rely on so heavily (scent and hearing, specifically). He has a better "nose" than any dog in the house, and he seems to have radar when it comes to objects outside (as long as they're larger than a twig).

Blind pups do well with other dogs around to "lead the way". They used to watch out for Ray when he was young, go back for him, guide him...but not anymore.

He swims in the pond with the others (and alone at times), runs and plays just like any other dog here. He plays with toys...but does tend to lose them frequently. LOL He'll just go get another one out of the toy box.

I'd suggest keeping him with a family with other dogs...and females that have had litters is good. They'll teach him, and watch out for him.

Ray doesn't like strange places. Going off the property, in the car, etc. really freaks him out. I know it's the strange noises, and smells. Even when we're walking through the fields, we must have another dog with us. He definitely uses them as a guide. If we try to take him alone, he's much more stressed.

I know a lot of blind dogs that do just fine going out and about (on lead of course), but he isn't one of them. So he stays home where he's comfortable and rarely goes out socializing.

Ray's issue was congenital. He was the last puppy in the birth canal, and the opthamologist said that caused the problem. Something in his eyes didn't "detach" when it should have. Not sure of what the issue was anymore because it never really mattered a bit.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

I hope the little one outgrows this. I had a husky that had blue eyes with no blindness issues. But the way I understood it at that time, was that it was the dogs that had two different color eyes that could be a problem. Also my girl was a normal size husky and was 45 lbs, so Hera may not be as undernourished as you might think. The pups are adorable and seem like they are doing well now. I hope it continues.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Neonatal conjunctivitis could have been an issue too, tho you will usually notice that the unopened eyes "bulge" and eventually discharge pus. Even if the dam was vaccinated though, in a bad situation, a pup that does not get colostrum will be compromised without the other pups being ill.

 

[oldehome]

Sandra...
As you already know, my labbie Jake, has never known sight. He, his littermates and Mom were all rescues and the vet guessed that malnourishment either before they were born or after, was the likely cause. Genetics or viruses prior to shots can also be a cause for puppy blindness. Jake was one of the only 2 surviving pups, both of them having eye issues with blindness and because in their case it was also very painful...Jake had both his eyes removed and his sister had one eye removed. I adopted him after his eyes were removed so was not involved in the early stages.
I don't have much medical knowledge on this other than there are several unfortunate reasons for pups being born blind or with limited vision.

All I can say is that, if in fact she is blind, she WILL have wonderful quality of life! It's amazing how they form little maps of everything in their heads and move around and function so well!!! Jake's ears are his eyes and he can also sense a change in air flow..ie a doorway, stairs, wood pile...anything! Having stimulation with touch, noise, textures, buddies, voice tone, positive moods, taste, smell...it's all important. Start now.
Jake is awesome and I adore him just as he is...his blindness makes him the special boy that he is!
I know she will do well with you involved in her life, in whatever way that will be!
They are all beautiful pups!


PS... put different tones of bells or tags jingling on the animals around her and a bear bell on MOM...she'll pick up on it real quick and it will make her happier to be able to start to relate to things in her own way! I have a bear bell on Zoe and different tags and bells on the others. Jake is 'bang on' when finding them or playing!

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I truly commend the people who are willing to raise these dogs with that kind of disability. I don't know if I could be that courageous...i'd be too overprotective to let them have a life.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I did some reading on blindness in huskies and most of the problems are not present this young...they show up later, some as early as 4 months, but not as infants. Where I live almost ALL of the huskies are blue eyed...And have not run across vision problems so far. The pup that we had in was a shepherd, and the eyes really appeared normal, but apparently the distemper virus can be neurological too, and affect the retina. This pup was basically fine except for the blindness, very playful actually, and then the hard pad came a bit later. (Developed a crustiness to the pads of the feet, which started around the edges, like extra callous) It developed seizures at about 12 weeks of age and was eventually euthanized because of neurological issues.

 

[Blacknewfs]

Thanks everyone. We'll be talking with the vet about all of this. I will be very surprised if the pup gains vision, but the vet said it can happen. We'll see what the next week brings.

Our biggest problem with him was keeping people from carrying him around when he was so little. He had to learn to walk on a leash and trust in following people.

Good to note Susan -- I can see how it would people's natural desire to "help" by doing things for the pup.

To put weight on mom - have you tried Satin Balls.

Yup, she's starting on them today!

Ray (Golden) was blind from birth and sounds exactly like this pup. He was much slower developing mentally than the others as well. It took him longer to "understand" things.

This is what her foster is seeing too -- Sprocket is slower to do things, doesn't catch on as quickly as the others. She stands in the middle of the food bowl to eat the gruel, just seems "different". Figuring out that she can't see really explains all of her behaviours.

I went over to puppy sit yesterday and little Sprocket was motoring around the puppy play area, looking for Hera (who was taking a much needed break from the pups.) Sprocket was definitly using her nose and ears to find the other dogs and her mom. She ate well, and was not allowing the bigger, stronger pups to push her away from the food or anything.

But the way I understood it at that time, was that it was the dogs that had two different color eyes that could be a problem. Also my girl was a normal size husky and was 45 lbs, so Hera may not be as undernourished as you might think.

Our vet said the Blue eyes are the issues, and that if her father also was blue eyed, that would put her at a higher risk. (We have no info about the sire.) I imagine dogs with one blue and one brown eye have similar genetic issues.

Hera definitely is too thin at 45 lbs, the vet said she will not be able to keep up with milk production at this rate if she doesn't gain more weight. Yesterday she ate 1 c yogurt, 7 c Orijen, 2 c of the cheap filler food and tolerated it well. Today satin balls are being added.

Neonatal conjunctivitis could have been an issue too, tho you will usually notice that the unopened eyes "bulge" and eventually discharge pus.

At this point there is nothing visibly wrong with the eyes, no swelling, discharge, etc.

Sandra...
All I can say is that, if in fact she is blind, she WILL have wonderful quality of life! It's amazing how they form little maps of everything in their heads and move around and function so well!!! Jake's ears are his eyes and he can also sense a change in air flow..ie a doorway, stairs, wood pile...anything! Having stimulation with touch, noise, textures, buddies, voice tone, positive moods, taste, smell...it's all important. Start now.

Thanks Judy. We know Sprocket will do just fine without vision. Actually, I was telling her foster mom about you and Jake and how well he does.

As you know, my Marin is also mostly blind (although her's was slow vision loss from cataracts) and I'm always so amazed by how well she gets around. Fostering a blind puppy from birth will be an entirely new experience for our rescue, so we'll be coming here for tips and advice on things we can do to help Sprocket gain as much confidence as possible.

I did some reading on blindness in huskies and most of the problems are not present this young...they show up later, some as early as 4 months, but not as infants.

Interesting.
We will certainly be talking more with the vet, and watching for any other indications of distemper.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

We can do newfy prayers for her..

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I spent some time on a LOT of Sibe breeder sites this morning...and according to them, there is no issues specifically related to eye color, with the eye issues being equally distributed regardless of eye color. Blue eyes appear to be quite "normal" in the breed, even having one of both, or having blue or brown eyes with "chips" of the other color in them., like an iris that is 1/4 blue and the rest brown. Reading it was interesting, as I finally found one site that went into depth and explained that blue irises do not let in as much light, and that many sibes will have them because they aid in avoiding "snow blindness" because they don't let in as much light. (you can always learn SOMETHING eh?) This site even went into the development of eye color in utero etc., which was pretty amazing, and stated, finally, that the concept that blue eyes are more prone to blindness in this breed is like saying that all blue eyed people from Sweden are prone to blindness LOL. Whatever the little dumpling has...I hope you are able to find a home that will be able to give it a full and happy life.

 

[Blacknewfs]

Thanks for the info Cindy, interesting indeed! I don't know much about huskies at all -- lots to learn as I start screening homes for them.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Oh my, I never thought about the concept of screening homes for them. I've boarded them for YEARS, and worked with them at the vet clinic a lot (common breed out here) and they are SO different than Newfs. As boarders, they rank right up there as my least favorites simply because many of them just see a fence as a challenge, and they can be VERY destructive in their pursuits to escape and run. I have always found them to be more of a one person dog, they don't become "bonded" to you when you board them, and I am always very watchful when entering and exiting their kennel run, because if they get a chance, they are GONE and they don't come back when you call them...to the point that I had one that used to come years ago, and the owner would bring a tie out stake and put that down in the kennel run to make sure she could not get to the fenceline because she would leave over a 6 foot fence without blinking. She was the sweetest creature, but she was a runner and nothing would stop her. Oh yes, you DO have your work cut out for you, but there are a lot of great breeders sites you can go to...and maybe even talking to a husky specific rescue would help....