back to basics here. *sigh*
- Thread starter hemingway
- Start date
Just addressing one aspect of this -- none of my dogs have ever responded well to being pulled directly by the collar. Calm newfs, adolescent newfs, mellow newfs ... they all resist it. As soon as I snap on a leash, I get docility. I think it is a very primal dislike of anything going for the neck. Not sure.
If he starts snapping at you then, with the leash -- I realize there is a larger issue. But I would keep to the leash. If I have a newf snapping I would keep the leash lifted straight up to the sky. They can't reach you that way.
If he starts snapping at you then, with the leash -- I realize there is a larger issue. But I would keep to the leash. If I have a newf snapping I would keep the leash lifted straight up to the sky. They can't reach you that way.
hemingway
New member
Prong. LOL! We gave up on the prong collar. Not only does he resist having it put on him at all costs...but once it's on he is very tense and unhappy. We have tried to reverse this hate for the prong by giving him rotisserie chix while putting it on him....lots of praise....tricking him/making it a game....he always figures it out and the efforts he goes to in order to avoid wearing it makes me think it must be very uncomfortable or painful on him in a way I can't sense. So that's that. But we have a chain pinch collar and his regular collar that he wears in the yard is a martingale style. I think the leash...treats....and games will be my best defense against his tantrums.
Jager's Mom
New member
Stacey, Hang in there. 
First, I feel your pain...with my lab. Everyone tells me it will get better when he gets older.... HE IS 11 YEARS OLD!!!!! How much older I ask!? LOL
Just some ideas...
I'm sure that you have a busy schedule.... But just a thought... Excercise can help mischievous newfs! (Exercise like walks/runs...not just wandering the backyard). It can also help us humans (with our daily life frustrations and stress). If you can wear out some of the excess energy, this may make life/training/re-directing much easier for you and Hemmingway.
When doing the re-call, don't just use regular treats...try something extra yummy (chicken, cheese...whatever is extra special). Do several recalls while he is outside, as well as inside the house.
Hand feed his regular food, making sure that he is "doing" something to get the food (as a reward).
Stacey....NN is here for you.
First, I feel your pain...with my lab. Everyone tells me it will get better when he gets older.... HE IS 11 YEARS OLD!!!!! How much older I ask!? LOL
Just some ideas...
I'm sure that you have a busy schedule.... But just a thought... Excercise can help mischievous newfs! (Exercise like walks/runs...not just wandering the backyard). It can also help us humans (with our daily life frustrations and stress). If you can wear out some of the excess energy, this may make life/training/re-directing much easier for you and Hemmingway.
When doing the re-call, don't just use regular treats...try something extra yummy (chicken, cheese...whatever is extra special). Do several recalls while he is outside, as well as inside the house.
Hand feed his regular food, making sure that he is "doing" something to get the food (as a reward).
Stacey....NN is here for you.
marylouz
New member
Sound like the lack of reliable recall is more the need for a leave-it command - train it starting with something enticing but low value - a so-so toy is good - while on leash - walk past- when he goes towards it say leave it and give a leash correction - then treat big time for returning to you. Work up the distractions until there is a pile of hot dogs on the ground - and treat your correction like it was a puddle of anti-freeze - then treat like crazy - always something better than what is on the floor. Then when he is barking, etc. outside use the leave it instead of the recall.
ElvisTheNewf
Active member
Elvis can flop with the best of them, and at 175 pounds there's not a chance in hell I can move him. However, no matter how much of a turd he's being, as soon as the leash is clipped on he jumps up and acts like it was his idea to get up and move in the first place.
Whenever he sees us pick up his leash he throws his head down and flops on his side, and sometimes even tries to hit us with his paw. Again, as soon as we clip his leash, he's up and ready to go. It's so weird that he tries to put up a fight when once the leash is on he's all happy and excited.
Whenever he sees us pick up his leash he throws his head down and flops on his side, and sometimes even tries to hit us with his paw. Again, as soon as we clip his leash, he's up and ready to go. It's so weird that he tries to put up a fight when once the leash is on he's all happy and excited.
Pipelineozzy
New member
And don't expect neutering to fix this. It's a training issue and it doesn't have anything to do with testicles. If you want him to leave what he is doing and come with you, you need to be more interesting than what he's doing. You never use a command that you cannot reliably expect him to obey..or you are effectively teaching him that the command is optional. Trying to use physical force with a dog that is stronger and faster than you is pointless...so go back to basics and train in the behaviour that you need, use the freedom of the yard for a reward for good behaviour. You may have to retrain with a different word than you have been using because it sounds like he has already figured out that "come" doesn't mean anything except that you are going to wrestle with him.
Angela
Super Moderator
Stacey,
Just a thought I had because his behaviour reminds me of my first Newf many years ago.
Gus was so dominent so he got signed up for obedience classes. He really liked that and so the first goal was CD, then it progressed eventually to UD.
He had to work and loved acting the clown.
So, could you have a goal for him and work him towards that? Maybe, CD or CGC or something?
Just a thought I had because his behaviour reminds me of my first Newf many years ago.
Gus was so dominent so he got signed up for obedience classes. He really liked that and so the first goal was CD, then it progressed eventually to UD.
He had to work and loved acting the clown.
So, could you have a goal for him and work him towards that? Maybe, CD or CGC or something?
2Paws
New member
Very good advice. So many of us can relate to exactly where you are at and can fully understand your frustration. My first newfie threw horrible temper tantrums, perfected the newfie flop to an artform, created horrible bruises on my arms from his mouthing and sent me airborne a few times with his horrible lunging at anything that moved. Benson ended up being an absolutely wonderful companion and working partner in spite of my lack of experience. Benson was neutered at a very early age. This did NOT change his behavior. Henry also challenged me as a youngster. He's grown into a wonderful companion, working dog and therapy dog. Henry is five years old and intact.
Truman (13 months old) is challenging me much in the same way as your Hemy. Because of the experience I've had with my previous newfies, I've learned to work with this behavior and tap into the intelligence and confidence of my newfie. I've learned to work with him instead of against him.
I've been able to do this by not taking the naughty behavior personally. I've also worked very hard to form a relationship where I am very exciting to be with. This has involved lots of time playing games. We play hide n seek with me or with toys. We spend lots of time playing tug where that's more of a reward than food. We've played the collar grab game where I grab the collar and immediately give him a treat. He's conditioned now to where grabbing the collar is a good thing. He's looking for a treat and not trying to mouth my hand. All of these games are a means of training....he just doesn't know it. I don't assign a name to a behavior I want from him until I know he understands it and can do it regardless of where he is at.
There's an excellent book that may help you with your training. It's called Ruff Love by Susan Garrett. Another one is Shaping Success by the same author.
Hemy is still a puppy and still requires a lot of foundation training for that wonderful calm newfie you desire. You'll get there....the fact that you are posting here shows you care enough. Just keep working with him and some day you will be able to look back at this adventure with fondness. Really!!!!!
ardeagold
New member
Great post Sue! I agree 100%.
I had Goldens and Labs prior to Newfs and learned early on (through my mentors and trainers) to never grab a collar. It only makes a dog resist. However, as someone else said, the instant I put a leash on (and I use mostly slip leads around the house...they work like a lasso and you don't need to fidget with a collar to use them), every dog will come along happily. If I don't have a leash, I play a game of catch me...or I drop on the ground and roll around...whatever...to make it fun. I do make sure to go out with a treat, or the leash, if I know I'm going to have a battle getting them in. I find it the most difficult when it's really cold out and the Newfs just do NOT want to come inside.
Another thing I learned is to train ONE word/phrase...and use a special treat that you take out at only that time (one they love)...as an emergency recall word. When I want them to come...I just yell Come! ... but if they decide to ignore me, I go get them (or may try yelling TREAT first). When it's IMPERATIVE they come...right then...no fooling around...I have a special word/phrase...ours is HOT DOG...which means get over here NOW! OF course when they come, they do get their hot dog. Never use that word/phrase (or that particular treat) for anything else. Just the emergency recall.
It's all training, really. You can win a battle of the wills, sooner or later, usually...but it's just too hard that way. If you make it fun and easy on him, it'll be much easier on you. Just make sure you're consistent. That's the key.
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hemingway
New member
Hemingway gets two 30-40 min. walks per day, once in the early AM and one when the sun goes down. His day is in a parenthesis of walks. So he is not just a back yard dog. (i own a dog exercise and fitness business...i know how important it is for dogs) We cannot do more than that as far as walks goes because he has elbow dysplasia and gets very sore. He does have play dates with other dogs and this tires him out the most, but again he gets incredibly sore from this. His elbow dysplasia really limits us to two solid walks a day and off leash time in the yard.
hemingway
New member
As much as some of you think neutering changes nothing, I know my dog and I've witnessed a BIG difference in him very recently as he's started to mature sexually...while I'm aware he will test me balls or not, and will challenge me and be stubborn....there is a distraction about him now that I can tell has to do with hormones. So, yes, I am very much looking forward to neutering him when he's 18 months old. The day can't come soon enough.
new_2_newf
New member
It does take the edge off. between getting him neutered and having a foster here for a few months afterwards, I noticed a HUGE change in Sulley post neuter. You are correct, it won't fix everything, but it should help take the edge off the insanity.
Jager's Mom
New member
Oh geesh... I was hoping a little exercise would help...but it sounds like you have that under control. Ugh, well... unfortunately, I'm out of ideas.
All I can say is... Hang in there.
mrsnamsherf
Member
From what you said earlier, Hemi knows you are in charge in the house and on the leash. But, dogs do not generalize well, so now he has to learn that your being in charge applies to the YARD as well. Also he is now off-leash, which is a whole new level of complexity. It is not that he is regressing so much as that these are actually NEW behaviors for him to learn. Like when he knows "Sit" at home, but not on the walk.
I think you also mentioned in another thread that when Hemi is barking in the house, you walk into him. You could also do this in the yard. It's how I keep Sam from barking when he is in the yard. You might also try leaving a long line on him when you send him out, so you don't have to go all the way to him to give a correction, but can do it from 20-30 feet away. I totally agree that grabbing the collar brings on a battle. If he knows down/stay, practicing some long down stays in the yard will be beneficial, as will having a mat or "place" you can send him to on command.
You have done a GREAT job with Hemi. You have obviously put in much time and effort. :groovy: He lucked out to get someone so committed. I hope it gets better quickly. Some of this stuff won't be totally new concepts for him, so hopefully your progress will be faster. Good luck! :nod:
Marie
I think you also mentioned in another thread that when Hemi is barking in the house, you walk into him. You could also do this in the yard. It's how I keep Sam from barking when he is in the yard. You might also try leaving a long line on him when you send him out, so you don't have to go all the way to him to give a correction, but can do it from 20-30 feet away. I totally agree that grabbing the collar brings on a battle. If he knows down/stay, practicing some long down stays in the yard will be beneficial, as will having a mat or "place" you can send him to on command.
You have done a GREAT job with Hemi. You have obviously put in much time and effort. :groovy: He lucked out to get someone so committed. I hope it gets better quickly. Some of this stuff won't be totally new concepts for him, so hopefully your progress will be faster. Good luck! :nod:
Marie
hemingway
New member
thank you....thank you...thank you!!! all of you. so many great tips here to start with. since posting this thread, I'm never out without leash and treats! and the word "OUT" is starting to make sense to him. We even started playing hide and seek yesterday...which he LOVES! I need to read through the comments again and write some of it down! lol.
Henrys Mom
New member
Hemingway sounds like Mason!! I swear everything you have written I could say about Mason. The only thing I found to work was to keep a leash with me at all times! Mason is sooooo difficult! Be happy at least that Hemi hasn't figured out how to dig under the fence like Mason!! Talk about a nightmare! Mason has tested me more than than any other dog. I wish you all the best and I am right there with you...