back to basics here. *sigh*

[hemingway]

well, the new freedom of having a fenced in yard has brought out Hemingway's ugly side. It goes something like this: he's getting into something I don't want him to, or digging, or barking at a neighbor. I go grab him by the collar to bring him away from whatever is sparking his interest, he immediately starts trying to bite at the hand that his holding his collar, but I don't let go because damn it, I'm the boss. So He's biting at my arm and flailing around, I'm trying to get a better grip with my other hand (he's 130 lbs now) but can't because he's trying to bite it (and does-I have welts on my arms) I try to move forward, he collapses in the grass, and this all escalates to the point that I'm practically flashing the neighbors because my shirt is all pulled to the side, we're both on the ground, I'm saying NO! He's answering me with a BARK! My hair is a mess and I'm sweating and he's frothing at the mouth, and when I look in his eyes I see nothing but rage. Literally the only thing I can think to do is get him down and sit on him but it's not working anymore because he nearly outweighs me. My sweet loving puppy has a very dark side. My hands and wrists are throbbing. and I don't know whether to cry or punch the wall.

obedience 101 starts sharply at 6pm E.T.

 

[wrknnwf]

Some thoughts...

A. Put a leash on him instead.
B. Use a lure to distract him.
C. Ask him for a down, sit or some tricks.
D. Engage him in play.
E. Teach a reliable recall.

I'm sure there are lots of people who will have ideas.

 

[hemingway]

Some thoughts...

A. Put a leash on him instead.
- yes. need to keep one available., unfortunately, that doesn't stop the tantrum, it just keeps my hands slightly further from the giant teeth.
B. Use a lure to distract him.
-sometimes his squeaky toys work, but they are not always readily available
C. Ask him for a down, sit or some tricks.
-yes. sometimes this helps.
D. Engage him in play.
-also has worked
E. Teach a reliable recall.
-this would be huge. we've tried so many times to get a solid recall but it only works when he has few distractions. i'd say it works 75% of the time. not sure how to improve that.

you know the thing is, there are lots of ways to refocus him before it gets that bad...but i guess i just feel like....WHY is he doing this? you won't believe me when I tell you this but MOST of the time he understands who is in charge and he listens...he sits and waits at doorways, he sits and waits before meals....he GETS that he is not the boss. But in these horrid moments....all of that is out the window and he turns into CUJO. honestly, as he gets a bit older and matures sexually, I'm noticing he seems more anxious and frustrated. He will be neutered in August. And I can't wait....


I'm sure there are lots of people who will have ideas.

...

 

[DAWNMERIE]

He's playing you girlfriend, your his toy at this point and he's "lovin every minute of it"(loverboy song) It's not rage you see...it's HOLY SCHNICKES LOOK AT ALL THIS FREEDOM-WHAAAAA-HOOOOEEE, he's like a kid in a candy store that's eaten all the sugar in the world!

It's time to out wit this fella. His brute force is no match for your wits.(Princess bride saying) First question...does he have any recall? I think this is a new found freedom for him, yes?
Second question...Is he a foodie?
Third question...I assume you just don't have the time to make it a game?
Fourth Question...Do you have trees it your yard?

 

[luvmynwfy]

Hi
I am hearing lots of frustration and I think we've all been there at one point, I know I have. Its was so long ago, she definitely grew out of it or we trained out of it or both probably. There are so many more on here with 'real' training experience, but I'll tell you a little of how we overcame some of our difficulties. First, a choke collar, and being taught how to effectively give a correction. Maybe you're already doing this? The next, no food/treat was given without making her work for it. Then, I had to stop stepping over her, letting her push her way through the door first, no more letting her initiate play - basically I had to be the boss (like you said) and it all came down to consistency and repeat, repeat, repeat (that was hardest part for me to never, ever give in but stick with it). There was so much more, like hiring different private instructors, group classes (you said you guys are already going), weekend workshops, dog walking groups, lots of crying and yelling too. I know that look they give you that is saying "make me do it, if you can" and the worst "bring it on!". I've never had a male so hopefully when it's time for the big snip this will make a difference.
I wanted to offer something to you, you sound at your wits end and that's not good.
I hope you find the help you need, I hope August comes quickly for you.
Marina

 

[hemingway]

He's playing you girlfriend, your his toy at this point and he's "lovin every minute of it"(loverboy song) It's not rage you see...it's HOLY SCHNICKES LOOK AT ALL THIS FREEDOM-WHAAAAA-HOOOOEEE, he's like a kid in a candy store that's eaten all the sugar in the world!

It's time to out wit this fella. His brute force is no match for your wits.(Princess bride saying) First question...does he have any recall? I think this is a new found freedom for him, yes?
Second question...Is he a foodie?
Third question...I assume you just don't have the time to make it a game?
Fourth Question...Do you have trees it your yard?

LOL.
1. yes he has pretty good recall. I'd say 75%. The other 25% is when he has something right in his face or in front of him distracting him. Not sure how to get beyond that.
2. he is not a HUGE foodie unfortunately. ie. on walks in new places or at the dog park, he has no use for treats or food of any kind.
3. what do you mean by "make it a game?"
4. yes....mostly around the perimeter of the yard, but we have two big trees in the yard, too.

 

[hemingway]

btw we just went on a walk and i made him sit and stay about 15 times throughout, while i walked away and waited. sometimes 30 seconds or more. he came when called, i clicked and gave a treat. this will be our new walking routine. and like was already mentioned by Marina, I'm going to have to be firm again about manners in the house....moving him out of the way, never playing with him when he initiates it, etc.

 

[lmfoltyn]

Oh poor Hemingway! How old is he? Sounds like he is showing his teenage freedom! LOL...Jake is 18 months next month and we have had a heck of a time with him. My husband seriously was at the point of no return with him. He IS getting better, thank God. No easy answers here I'm afraid. Just being consistent and putting him in his crate when he is too wound up to listen. It really does help! Good luck!!

 

[Sadiesmom]

Oh my. That sounds familiar when Sadie does not get her way sometimes she has a big tantrum. I'm sorry I don't have any advice but I do feel your pain.

 

[Thehallk]

Your fence is only about a week behind ours in being finished, but Gilly did have a solid week of being a complete brat about being allowed her freedom in the yard. She was whining alllllll the time (she already whines all the time, but i'd say it doubled), was barking at EVERYTHING (including the fence itself), did a bit of digging, that tackle I posted about earlier, and of course the same flop when I tried to bring her in. She only digs for bugs, so thats not hard to resolve. I bring her inside every time she barks so she's realized that's no fun, but she's so much smaller than hemingway that i'm positive it's MUCH easier to get her in. And now, suddenly she's kind of "gotten over it". Hopefully Hem will just get used to this new fence business and ease up soon!

Something I find that helps with "the flop" is if when grab her collar I also grab the loose skin/fur on either side of her neck and sort of keep her head/front body between my legs. As soon as i feel her leaning one way I walk into it (or is it away from it?) to make it impossible for her to flop to that side. We kind of zig zag with her attempted flops until we make it to the door. It doesn't stop the arm gnawing, which I get too, but at least she can't flop and I can get her inside and to a proper time out. It makes me furious but I just clench my teeth and i'm sure steam is blowing out my ears and I don't say a single word to her. Once we're inside I usually go into a room and slam the door so I can relax and she can be lonely for a few minutes. My other plan was to use my gate/pen thing to just trap her outside into a time out zone every time she was bad..fortunately she's doing a lot better this week, so I didn't have to try to pen her.

 

[Brandie&Maggie]

I just have to say, that I FEEL YOUR PAIN! Maggie has been really bull-headed the past few weeks with her thyroid levels getting better. It really is a time for "back to basics" around here as you say. I think we get a little lax over time as they learn the ropes, but going back to boot camp sounds like a good bet. It's working for us.

One idea, when you are trying to remove him from some situation, may be to try distracting him with work as soon as you get his attention, rather than dragging him away. Work his brain with whatever commands or tricks he knows. We've also ben teaching "touch" and "watch me" which we can use to get her attention.

When he truly needs to be removed from a situation, practice giving a firm correction when he acts up. Can you try to engage him with a "heel" command as you walk him away? Then correct if he tries to break it?

Good luck...it will get better with work :grouphug:

 

[hemingway]

thanks everybody. you'll remember that this was pretty much all i posted for a few months there when he was 4 months to a year old...then things got much better once i took the advice of "distract and refocus" so I'll be going back to that. sometimes i just wish he weren't an a-hole though. i wish i could grab him by the collar and he'd just come with me, without a fight or tantrum. jeez-louise!!!!!

Liza...Brandie...all of you...thanks for empathizing with me. sometimes it's just nice to hear I'm not the only one with a crazed, rabid monster of a dog. (and yet, as i type this, he's napping sweetly on the back porch and will be a doll the rest of the night...he's jekyll and hyde, i tell you.)

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Ok, 75% recall that's pretty good, you can work more on this, I saw the next post you made and that's absolutely what you should do, make him work as much as you can and always remember to reward him, even if that reward is just saying good boy with a pat on his noggen. Another question for you....do you also practice recall in the house?
I used to practice recall everywhere, even with his leash on. I've never been 100% and shame on me that I stopped training (your making me think I should get back to it!)

Have you ever played hide and seek with him? In the house or anywhere else?
When Zeke used to want to stay out playing in the yard around 11pm at night I got very frustrated with attempting to chase and catch him so I would hide behind a tree and say Youuu-Hoooo, and ask him to find me....once he found me I'd say good boy, now lets get a cookie and he'd follow happily. Vin used to take him out sometimes to wear him out and couldn't get him back in, so he'd come get me and tell me to get him, sometimes treats would work and sometimes hide & seek and then we discovered he loved to protect me...so I also used that too, I'd have Vin make like he was a monster going to jump on me or grab me and Zeke would run towards us and we'd run to the door and then tell him he was a good boy. Oh the things I miss, he's gonna be 5 this year and I miss these antics, now he sometimes gets that spark in his eye and I know he wants me to stalk him, so I engage with him whatever he wants...I actually miss so many things that you post with frustration, it's honestly a matter of out witting him! Find stuff, play games...make it a fun time....your frustration is what he thrives on and loves at this point. oh and another thing I would also do was if I had something in my hand...which could be anything, even in the house, I'd say you wanta see what I have? And he'd also come running, sometimes it was a treat and sometimes it was a pine cone but each time him came it was good boy, let's go get a cookie. Hmmm, maybe that how come he got to 200lbs....nevermind, it wasn't my fault! Find what works for him, food, game whatever out smart this boy, you can do it. I'm sure you can tell I'm no professional, it's just stuff that worked for us and my experience and maybe I've done everything all wrong all along but it's worked for us.

 

[Bojie]

I just have to tell you, so that you feel better, that Bojie used to do that. I looked like I was on a fishing boat in the Atlantic and I just hooked a HUGE shark. One hand on his collar while he'd flail his body around like a total FREAK. If, by chance I let him go or my hand slipped, he'd gallop around me doing play bows and then POUNCE on me. IT was all play. But he had that freakish look in his eyes too. It's part of the teenage years, and ever since he started I never left home without a bag of some kind of delicious treats in my pocket, so when I saw the glimmer in his eye that he was about to go into JAWS mode, I'd immediately go into obedience training, but fun training. SIT!, DOWN! SIT, STAND and then do recalls from far away so that he could run and get his energy out. A tired dog, is a good dog
That amazing obedient dog that was off leash for an entire draft test, pulled weights off leash in his cart for a mile with me in that video I posted, was in fact, once a Hemingway JAWS shark.

 

[takemebacktotulsa]

Know that you're definitely not alone, Stacey.

Last night at obedience class Willis's teenage punk attitude was on full display. Jumping on the instructor during a stand-stay. Tracking down the PBGV during what was supposed to be a down stay (she recently came out of heat, but still). Running to his lab friend instead of coming to me on a recall. And mouthing me when I went to get him to bring him back.

I was mortified. He's normally a really well-behaved dog but was really full of himself last night. We're going to be doing even more work around here. Hopefully with all of the work we put in, in a few years we'll look back upon these little outbursts and wonder how our little angels ever acted this way

 

[hemingway]

Dawn, I love your tips. Hide and seek! great idea. We have the perfect Maple for that. Recall in the house...we need to do that more. We just need to get back to work. You're right. I need to outsmart him. Which should be pretty easy, lol!
Megan. Thank you for sharing that story. It gives me real hope. What jerks these dogs are when they are teens! The hormones! The nerve they have! It's unreal sometimes how bold he is. I've never ever met a dog so bold. It must be a newfie thing. I must keep treats and a leash on me at all times, just like I used to. We are not out of the woods yet!
Paige! Thank you! Ahhh, I feel so much better! I'm not reveling in your misery, only celebrating that I don't have a defective dog after all! PHEW!!!!

 

[Brandie&Maggie]

I'm not reveling in your misery, only celebrating that I don't have a defective dog after all! PHEW!!!!

I'm pretty sure all teenage boys (dog or human) are a little defective at that age. :tequila:

 

[blaue_augen]

Maybe you can wear forearm pads like these while sorting this out again?! You could paint them stylishly and it would double as protection from the sun while you are outside!!

I'm sorry, I don't have any additional advice other than what has been mentioned here. But I'm sending you hugs and bandaids!!

 

[Bojie]

Dawn, I love your tips. Hide and seek! great idea. We have the perfect Maple for that. Recall in the house...we need to do that more. We just need to get back to work. You're right. I need to outsmart him. Which should be pretty easy, lol!
Megan. Thank you for sharing that story. It gives me real hope. What jerks these dogs are when they are teens! The hormones! The nerve they have! It's unreal sometimes how bold he is. I've never ever met a dog so bold. It must be a newfie thing. I must keep treats and a leash on me at all times, just like I used to. We are not out of the woods yet!
Paige! Thank you! Ahhh, I feel so much better! I'm not reveling in your misery, only celebrating that I don't have a defective dog after all! PHEW!!!!

Hide and seek is a GREAT one. I used to hide in the house on rainy days. Vanessa also plays hide and seek in the house with her guys. One time we played with all 3 of them. The anticipation almost killed me Hide and seek also teaches your dog to WANT to be with you and not run off. I used to hide behind trees outside etc. Now, on walks if Boj gets a few feet ahead, he'll stop turn his head, and wait for me to catch up

 

[ArtfulCharm]

I think he is being a rebellious teenage boy! Hopefully getting him neutered (when the time is right) will help.

Like some other people have said, I would use a leash for sure, but I would also keep a pinch collar on him when he is out if you are able to watch him so you can just walk up to him and clip on the leash. Or don't leave the prong on him, but walk up to him and put it on him matter of factly before doing anything else. That would give you a lot more power to help you match (and hopefully beat his power.

Best of luck! I know from your previous posts that he can be a handful. Eventually your hard work will pay off! Like after his teenage years! And maybe after neuturing, I would think he would at least be a little easier to work with once he gets rid of some of that testosterone.

And this is why I like the girls so much!