Are they related?

[kastle]

I am trying to hopefully win a discussion with my secretary at work. She has an english lab that weighs close to 130lbs. She refuses to admit that she is over weight. This dog is so fat. She is very stocky and has a big block head but she is WAY over weight. This woman's reasoning is that Stella is very large because she is related to the Newfoundland and her ancestors were newfoundlands. She's large because her newfoundland genes are showing though. Correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think the 2 dogs were related other than that the lab originated in Newfoundland and started out as the lesser st. johns dog or also called the lesser newfoundland and the current Newfoundland may have also originated in Newfoundland and was a product of breeding with the greater newfoundland or greater st. john's dog. Going by that, it doesn't seem like they have any relation what so ever. If anything, the newfoundland may have a little lab in it but not the other way around.

I am really hoping to win this one because it may make her realize that Stella needs to go on a diet.

 

[Angela]

Is this a purebred Lab?? Maybe a cross breed??
I say the Lab is grossly obese!!

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

It sound like your secretary is just looking for an excuse to justify her dog being fat. I think you are correct with your analysis of how the two breeds are/are not related.

 

[MMtnmom]

have her do the knuckle test. and remind her that newfoundlands should not be fat either!

 

[kastle]

This is a pure bred english lab. She likes to compare Stella with Lucy because they are both around 130lbs. I make sure she knows how obsessive I am about keeping her trim and being able to feel her ribs. She just doesn't want to accept that Miss Stella is obese. Even the vet has told her she needs to trim down and has prescribed a thyroid medication because her levels are in the low normal range for hypothyrodism. She chooses to only give her half of the prescribed dose and complain to the vet that it is not working because she is naturally supposed to be that size. She definitely loves her dog but I'm trying every way possible to tell her she is also killing her dog. Now she just thinks I'm a newfoundland snob.

 

[lmfoltyn]

I would think ANY lab, whether it is English or American that weighs 130 pounds is very overweight. Our pure lab is 65 pounds and classed as overweight. I know bone structure is dependent on individual dogs but that is excessive to me. Is he/she very tall? The field labs tend to be a bit lighter as our lab is on the shorter side. Still...

 

[Elizabeth]

Maybe this would help-
http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_contents.php?page=English+vs.+American

E

 

[DAWNMERIE]

I would ask, how the dog squats to go to the bathroom? When Zeke was up at almost 200 lbs (I swear I didn't know!) What I noticed the most besides thinking he was aging (duh, he was gonna be 4) was how he went to the bathroom.

When I came on NN, he had already been on a diet for a few months but I was amazed at the energy levels of others NN members pups. Does the dog do things that labs are meant to do? Could it? Maybe see if there is a forum for labs....

 

[blaue_augen]

I have seen some very tall labs before, is hers unusually tall? I hadn't heard of English labs until now and when I googled, it says the English labs are built heavy and usually shorter than American labs. But even with that, getting up to 130 lbs sounds hard. Maybe your coworker needs to compare her dog to your newf when your newf is all wet. Then she can see how thin your 130 bs really is!!

 

[NewfieMama]

My sister has a big American lab who's 95 lbs. He was up to 103 and had to reduce.

 

[new_2_newf]

I know fit male english labs that are in the 80-90 lbs range. Generally, english labs don't conform to the 'knuckle test'...they are one of the few breeds I know of that don't. The are designed to be a bit 'fatter' than the average dog. Having said that, they should be rolly-polly, but you should still be able to feel well defined muscle on the body (this is what makes them look fat, they are normally built like freaking tanks) and they should still have a defined hour glass shape to the body when viewed from above.

 

[padkins]

Some people are happy living their lives with their heads buried in the sand. They do the same with their own health. Would it help giving her information on obesity in dogs?

 

[kastle]

Padkins, you said exactly what I was thinking. This woman isn't the specimen of good health and if you knew what her life was like you would definitely agree that she lives with her head burried in the sand. She is very headstrong and likes to argue. She actually drives everyone crazy because we can never get a simple yes or no answer out of her when we ask a question. The dog is very short and blocky. She is definitely built like a tank. She lost her hourglass shape and is now looks like a yellow sausage. I'll just continue to randomly give her little suggestions and hope that eventually she'll listen.

 

[CMDRTED]

The below is part of the breed standard. If you look you will see that the dog is way outside the standard if it weighs 130 pounds.

[SIZE=+1]LABRADOR RETRIEVER BREED STANDARD[/SIZE]
(effective March 31, 1994)

General Appearance
The Labrador Retriever is a strongly built, medium-sized, short-coupled, dog possessing a sound, athletic, well-balanced conformation that enables it to function as a retrieving gun dog; the substance and soundness to hunt waterfowl or upland game for long hours under difficult conditions; the character and quality to win in the show ring; and the temperament to be a family companion.
Physical features and mental characteristics should denote a dog bred to perform as an efficient Retriever of game with a stable temperament suitable for a variety of pursuits beyond the hunting environment. The most distinguishing characteristics of the Labrador Retriever are its short, dense, weather resistant coat; an "otter" tail; a clean-cut head with broad back skull and moderate stop; powerful jaws; and its "kind" friendly eyes, expressing character, intelligence and good temperament.
Above all, a Labrador Retriever must be well balanced, enabling it to move in the show ring or work in the field with little or no effort. The typical Labrador possesses style and quality without over refinement, and substance without lumber or cloddiness. The Labrador is bred primarily as a working gun dog; structure and soundness are of great importance.

Size, Proportion and Substance

• Size - The height at the withers for a dog is 22-1/2 to 24-1/2 inches; for a bitch is 21-1/2 to 23-1/2 inches. Any variance greater than 1/2 inch above or below these heights is a disqualification. Approximate weight of dogs and bitches in working condition: dogs 65 to 80 pounds; bitches 55 to 70 pounds. The minimum height ranges set forth in the paragraph above shall not apply to dogs or bitches under twelve months of age.
• Proportion - Short-coupled; length from the point of the shoulder to the point of the rump is equal to or slightly longer than the distance from the withers to the ground. Distance from the elbow to the ground should be equal to one half of the height at the withers. The brisket should extend to the elbows, but not perceptibly deeper. The body must be of sufficient length to permit a straight, free and efficient stride; but the dog should never appear low and long or tall and leggy in outline.
• Substance - Substance and bone proportionate to the overall dog. Light,"weedy" individuals are definitely incorrect; equally objectionable are cloddy lumbering specimens. Labrador Retrievers shall be shown in working condition, well-muscled and without excess fat.

Temperament
True Labrador Retriever temperament is as much a hallmark of the breed as the "otter" tail. The ideal disposition is one of a kindly, outgoing, tractable nature; eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal. The Labrador has much that appeals to people; his gentle ways, intelligence and adaptability make him an ideal dog. Aggressiveness towards humans or other animals, or any evidence of shyness in an adult should be severely penalized.


Disqualifications

• [FONT=arial,helvetica]Any deviation from the height prescribed in the Standard. [/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,helvetica]A thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in any pigment. [/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,helvetica]Eye rims without pigment. [/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,helvetica]Docking or otherwise altering the length or natural carriage of the tail. [/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,helvetica]Any other color or a combination of colors other than black, yellow or chocolate as described in the Standard. [/FONT]
  
  Approved February 12, 1994
  Effective March 31, 1994

Copies of the LRC's The Labrador Retriever Illustrated Standard may be downloaded from this site.​

 

[new_2_newf]

at 130 lbs, it's amazing she can move at all, she must just be one big yellow dough ball.
that's almost twice what she should probably weigh

 

[new_2_newf]

Here is a good example of how the 'american' and 'english' types differ, although I was unware of the correct names:

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/english-american.html

"If you've surfed the Internet at all, you've probably come across the term "English Labrador" or "American Labrador". What's the difference? Good question and one I hope to explain here. Now remember these are my opinions.

Frankly, an "English" Lab is one born in England. An "American" Lab is one born in the USA. The proper terms are Show/Bench bred and Field bred Labradors. You see, there are English dogs which run field trials and American dogs that are shown in dog shows. To categorize them as English or American just by type tends to get confusing.


By using the term "English" one can get confused as to what someone is talking about. This is why I say the proper term should be show or field bred type.

Show Bred

A show bred Labrador generally is shorter on leg, has a heavier body, thicker tail and coat than a field bred Lab. Most show bred Labradors have a shorter muzzle and wider head than a field bred Lab.

Now know that there are different "types" in either the show bred or field bred Labs.

Some of the show bred types are more "moderate". These dogs are like the dogs above. Not extreme in any way.

There are also the type of show bred Labradors which are heavier and shorter than the moderate type.

Many times this is just an illusion. The coat can make the dog look heavier and rounder.

The owner of the above dog says that she looks totally different, when she is out of coat. Her coat makes her look heavier than she is.

There is debate on which type is the correct show type, but that is not what the point of this page is about. Its a matter of taste.


Field Bred

Field dogs tend to have a lighter body and longer legs. Their coats aren't as thick and their tails tend to be thinner.

The field bred Labrador's head is generally not as wide as a show bred Lab and the muzzle tends to be longer.

Again, there are varying "types" within field bred Labradors as well as the show type so keep that in mind.

 

[newfx's2]

I have an English Lab who came from an excellent bloodline. He is shorter, more husky and has more of a blocky head than the American Lab. He is in excellent condition and weighs in at 95 lbs. He is on the large side for this breed! I'd like to know the height of your friend's lab to be that big. That is not in the breed standard.

 

[R Taft]

I have two "english" Labs as Foster kids (they live with two aged people), we are in charge of their feeding and vetting. And we keep them very fit.........
The English Labs are more the field labs as they are still commonly used on shoots and also still very popular for use in Australia for shoots, especially duck shooting. I love them to bits, they are great dogs and very fit. We can do the knuckle test on our lot....They do have incredible hindquarter muscles and their tails wag forever and always.
We call Tina , wiggle bumm...........Titan is just one big ball of energy, but very gentle