A Question for the Breeders

[lapage24]

A few questions:

So let's say hypothetically that I'll be ready for another newfie puppy in a year.

• Do I start looking now and putting my name on wait lists now?
• Is it okay to put your name on several wait lists or does that make breeders upset when you're on the list for several potential kennels. Basically, do I need to settle on one kennel now and see how that one pans out?
• Do breeders take into account your plans for the newf? Like I'm thinking that we'll want to show and do obedience, rally, and water rescue. I'm guessing breeders would look favorably on that?
• Also, someone has said that show boys are easier to come by because you have to leave them intact and lots of people don't want to deal with a 200 some pound intact newfie. Any truth to that?

I'm asking these questions now because I know how long the wait can be...and I'm somewhat impatient...

 

[ardeagold]

I'd say start talking/searching now and tell the breeders you're looking around.

You need to hone in on the breeder and the line you like best (for all of the obvious reasons...health, longevity, soundness, temperament, conformation, etc).

If you'd like to do all of the competitive events with your dog, it would be great to have a breeder who can help out every step of the way. In fact, I'd say if you're new at all of it...it's imperative. The breeder you choose is extremely important.

Then once you've found your "fit", discuss your options with the breeder you've chosen.

 

[lapage24]

You need to hone in on the breeder and the line you like best (for all of the obvious reasons...health, longevity, soundness, temperament, conformation, etc).

I was afraid someone would say that. I'm so bad at making decisions especially when there are lots of options. I think I'm gonna have to make a spreadsheet or something to keep track and try to whittle it down based on who matches my criteria the best...assuming I meet the breeders criteria as well.

I would love to have a breeder that also acted as a mentor but being at some of the shows I've also seen breeders who were more like ring leaders. They would have multiple dogs there with their different co-owners, but the breeder would be barking orders at all of them. I can't deal with being barked at and/or ordered around.

To be honest, the idea of co-owning scares me, but I understand and acknowledge the intent and respect breeders who are deeply involved with the litters they produce. It's really the breeders like what I stated above that scare me of the co-owning aspect.

So I guess another question would be, how do you broach that topic politely? Finding out what kind of co-owner the breeder is? I would hate to find a breeder that I really liked and then piss them off by asking bad questions.

 

[Ginny]

Your chances of getting a puppy on a full registration from a reputable without a co-ownership are slim. Most breeders are very protective of their dogs who will/could remain intact in order that they maintain control over any breedings. My advice is to be open and who you are and not worry about alienating anyone. If you click, then you know that's happened on an honest and forthright basis such that the chance of it continuing is improved.

 

[new_2_newf]

I co-own Sulley. I wasn't sure about that at first either. I did some thinking on it. In the end, after several in depth and lengthy conversations with Sulley's breeder, my gut told me this would be an ok thing. I am sorry I don't have a more scientific answer. The co-ownership will end upon two conditions. 1) he gets fixed 2) he gets cleared for breeding. I suppose it would technically end if the breeder ended up repo-ing the dog as well, but that isn't going to happen.

Don't be afraid of co-owing. And don't be afraid to ask questions because you think people might get upset. If that happens, that isn't the breeder for you (good test ). Not saying they are bad, just not a right mix for you. You want a breeder you can ask stupid questions to, and that will help you through things like showing, and be a pal, not a dictator. If you don't enjoy what you do together, neither will the dog.

BTW...I keep in touch with his 'other mama' often. We chat on facebook and on the phone, and she gets lots of pictures and updates, and roughly 3 million questions to date. Now that we have started some training, she'll likely get that again very shortly. So far, it has been a very good co-ownership. She loves him and wants the best for him and always offers advice without being overbearing, but in the end, the decision is mine (barring contract conditions of course). As she says 'He is YOUR dog now'.

 

[Newfobsessed]

I'd say start talking/searching now and tell the breeders you're looking around.

You need to hone in on the breeder and the line you like best (for all of the obvious reasons...health, longevity, soundness, temperament, conformation, etc).

If you'd like to do all of the competitive events with your dog, it would be great to have a breeder who can help out every step of the way. In fact, I'd say if you're new at all of it...it's imperative. The breeder you choose is extremely important.

Then once you've found your "fit", discuss your options with the breeder you've chosen.

I couldn't agree more. And don't be afraid of co-ownership, IF you pick the right breeder. My Gabriel is co-owned with his breeder and I could not have a better mentor, teacher, listener, etc. I am encouraged and cheered on, and listend to when I have questions. I am a first time Newfie owner and I am SO GLAD I went this route...now I am confident enough to consider another Newfie!!!! Do some research, and you will be so glad you did. It took me two years to find the right fit, and I think I annoyed a few breeders along the way, but I just went with what I had heard, read, and my gut. Good luck!!!!

 

[lapage24]

Your chances of getting a puppy on a full registration from a reputable without a co-ownership are slim. Most breeders are very protective of their dogs who will/could remain intact in order that they maintain control over any breedings. My advice is to be open and who you are and not worry about alienating anyone. If you click, then you know that's happened on an honest and forthright basis such that the chance of it continuing is improved.

Oh no. I'm definitely not expecting a full registration without the co-ownership. I know that will definitely be a must for the type of puppy that I want. But like Sulley's mom said, I want a breeder who is a friend and not a dictator. There are just some breeders out that have gorgeous dogs whose lines I love, but I would never be able to co-own a dog with them after seeing how they treat their puppy's owners.

 

[new_2_newf]

Sounds like you better start talking to breeders sooner, rather than later. I think that if you found 'the one', then things have a funny way of working out...a returned dog, someone fell though at the last min, second thoughts, etc. You never know how your boy will find you

 

[Sun Valley]

Hi,

You have gotten some great advice. And as Ginny pointed out, most reputable breeder's will not let you have a puppy with full registration unless it's on a co-ownership. Get everything in writing and if something doesn't feel or sound right discuss it with the breeder.

Most people who want a show or working puppy know what bloodline/s they want a puppy from.

Don't be afraid to ask questions and keep asking...if they can't answer your questions or you don't feel comfortable with them, try another breeder. Do your homework well and hopefully it will pay off...)

I hope my next sentence doesn't like a sales pitch because that is not my intention but I have started offering a rebate for any puppy or adult I breed that gets an NCA or AKC working title. I think it's a great way to encourage people to get involved with their puppy and I also will sponsor people in my local regional club where people can find access to training class's, meet other people who work their dogs ,etc.

Lou Ann

 

[new_2_newf]

Lou Ann,

Those both sound like wonderful ideas And you are not the first I have heard that from. Many breeders offer a rebate post-title. After all, it bodes well for the kennel as well as the bloodline. I love the idea of training a newf to do what a newf does best Just hope I can wrap my own head around everything....Sulley seems to have left me in the dust in that respect.

 

[lapage24]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I definitely feel better about the co-ownership after hearing about your positive experiences with it.

The reason I want to wait the additional year from this point is I want to get my feet wet in obedience, rally, and water training with Hera this year and then move forward with a show dog after that so that I'll have some experience already...with some of it at least. Of course, for showing there's always the option of hiring a handler if I really stink at it and can't figure it out.

I'm also planning on joining the Charlotte Dog Training Club after I take my required 2nd class from them this summer. So we'll get to take really good classes with them at half the price after I become a member.

Hera and I will probably do our first Rally trials in July and she'll do the water test that SENC holds in October. We're going to try to have her ready for WD and WRD because she's already shown us that she can do the required exercises. We just need to clean them up and practice, practice, practice over the summer.

As far as this next puppy, I know I'll want him to do everything. Hera has really become my hobby and I would say that I'm happiest when we're working and training together. From the copious posts I've put up about her, I'm sure you can tell she's become my source of pride as well.

I think I'll be a much more confident handler after doing all this with Hera over the next year, which makes me think that I'll be ready for the next one in about a year or so. And everyone knows you can't have just one newf...so the clock is just inevitably ticking anyway. haha

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

You should start doing some research and leg work now. You can start by joining your Regional NCA club and going to their events. You can find your club at www.newfdogclub.org
There usually are breeders at the events. You can see their dogs and speak to them on a casual basis. In addition, go to shows in your area. Again, you can see the dogs from different kennels and speak to breeders and show people after they are done showing. You most likely will not get a show pup without a co-ownership. Everything will be spelled out beforehand and make sure you are comfortable with the terms. Another things you can do now is to go visit some breeder's kennels after you have narrowed it down a bit. It is important that you like what you see when you visit and feel like you have a connection with the breeder.

 

[Ivoryudx]

The very best thing you can do while your looking for your breeder is to work/play with the girl you already have. Nothing speaks louder than your actions of doing what your talking about. Breeders will be more inclined to look at you as a puppy buyer if you are out there with your current girl and doing all the things your talking about.

As far as the co-ownership goes...well...I'm in the minority here. I don't co-own and don't ever want to co-own. I have several dogs from different 'reputable breeders' without co-ownership and I know other people who have dogs from other 'reputable breeders' without co-ownership. Its a matter of getting to know the different breeders and following through with what you say your going to do. Building honesty and trust is huge.

I think the better statement here would be that it could be more difficult to purchase a SHOW puppy from a reputable breeder without a strict contract. Most breeders want, and need, to keep the top picks of a litter available to them for breeding purposes. This leads them to place them into homes that they either already know, or have built a trust with over a long period of time. Most have the same goals as they do, in building a breeding program. Co-ownership doesn't guarantee either party getting what they want out of the agreement, thats what a contract is for.

A signed contract can be taken to court, a co-ownership without a contract is nothing. The AKC does not recommend co-ownerships and will not get involved in co-ownership disagreements.

 

[janices]

You mentioned training working events with your current newf. Train your working events and go compete at draft, water, obedience trials with Hera. While you're out look at the other newfs competing and mingle. Get an idea what you're looking for. Go to conformation shows and see what you like. Make yourself a goal baring health problems that maybe you'd like to do a Working Achievement Award with your current newf and start working toward that goal. While out doing that look at other newfs and talk to breeders.

For show you're looking at a co-ownership. I'm another who has a rebate written into my contracts for AKC and NCA titles plus having OFA's done and reported. Read your contract carefully and make sure you're comfortable with the person and the contract. Look at what Susan has said. A breeder needs to see you're serious about what you say. Nothing speaks louder than having a history of doing that with your newfs.

 

[dfwmiket]

Co-ownership is all good, just need to find the right breeder. We are fortunate that not only did we find a great breeder, she has become a great friend and fantastic mentor to us as well. Take your time...... follow the advice given above.

-Mike

 

[Garden_girl]

We got our show boy on a limited registration from a reputable breeder. When it came time to start showing him in conformation, our breeder lifted the limited to full registration. This happened only after we had developed a good relationship with her before we got our puppy and much contact after we got our puppy. When we got our next puppy from her, we had full registration from the get-go.

The reason we got our first girl from a BYB - when I contacted a reputable breeder for a puppy (did not even ask for a show puppy) they sent me a contract. After I read the contract, I couldn't go through with it. They had the right to come and get my girl for breeding if she proved to be a show quality girl. I wrote them back and thanked them but I couldn't go through with it if they were going to take her back for several months every year, it sounded more like a lease than a purchase AND they were about 600 miles away from us. They told me that I would be hard pressed to find a breeder that would sell me a female puppy without that kind of contract. Which sent me straight into the open arms of a BYB. I love my BYB girl, and have learned so much from her, that I am actually grateful to the breeder.

So read that contract very carefully if you go that route.

 

[lapage24]

They had the right to come and get my girl for breeding if she proved to be a show quality girl.

Is that normal?? How do you take in a family member and then lend them out to strangers for breeding?? I know they're not really strangers being that it's the breeder, but it's not exactly home either. I couldn't stand being away from Hera for a few hours while she was being spayed. I can't imagine being away for days or weeks.

 

[Garden_girl]

Well, that was my thought too-how could you give your dog up for 4 or 5 months a year? I don't know if it's normal now, but that was 9 years ago.

 

[new_2_newf]

I think most breeders that have been dealing with the breed for a while develop an eye for puppies. If they think they have a bitch that is stellar, they may want a contract like that. If they have a bitch that is sound, but not quite a breeder, than probably not. I think you could find a breeder that would be willing to place a pet with your family without that sort of contract. They just can't predict what will come in each litter, but they likely won't all be super amazing showing/breeding puppies.

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Max's breeder...a Hobby breeder sold him with a limited registration and when he started to get working titles and grew to be a decent looking boy she wouldn't change it unless we paid her more money but she does not co-own him.
Marcus's breeder became a friend before we got Marcus and gave us a full registration and did not ask to co-own him as she felt she didn't need to. When and if we show him...her daughter will handle him.
Also in our contract...we are given a 10% rebate for any testing we do when the results...good or bad...are sent to OFA.