Puppy forum - family can post - not the breeder?

[pabusinesswoman]

Dolly..
No one is trying to attack you by any means.. but with your responses about high school.. the ol' saying one should not throw stones.. and one should look in the mirror.... that's another story... Your responses on here are going to be based upon how you treat the folks here. They're just trying to tell you what your looking for your probably not going to find.

You came on stating you wanted a service dog not a breeding dog. That's two different things. The way YOU want to do it is not how reputable AKC breeders work. You came on here, asked a question... and all anyone is trying to do is give you honest answers and suggestions as per why your having problems. I do not know one AKC breeder that would sell you a newf on the terms your stating on a full registration. Your getting responses from experience.

If you looking to breed, you should find a breeder that you get along with and have the same goals for breeding. You will probably still have to co-own an AKC dog. They would act as your "mentor". Once you have talked long and hard to a good breeder as per WHY this is done, you will see the practice is in place for good reason.

Just to throw another idea out there... have you considered a rescue or a breeder rehome? There are several good rescues that have been temper tested. Several become therapy dogs. I don't know the requirements for a service dog. You would have a background of the "look" of the dog along with the temprament as per whether the dog would pass the requirements.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Dollyboons]

Well no one here has come close to answering my original question. I'm not even sure anyone here knows what the question was.
No I haven't considered a rescue dog. I have had several poud puppies in my life, and I just don't want to go that direction with my service dog.

 

[Angela]

Oh sorry, what I am looking for is -
A large female landseer, or Irish spotted. To be used as my service dog. A big blocky head, and solid body. Not TOO much white because it can be difficult to keep clean. 2 year health guarantee, health cleared/certified parents. Full AKC registration or registrable. Costing 3000 or below, + shipping. Yep I think that's it

I think people here are trying to help you but are now confused.
First you say you want a service dog, then you want a dog to breed. That seems to be our confusion.
Service dogs are spayed/neutered. You can't have a service dog intact, can you? I don't think so.

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

The answer is no. No responsible or reputable breeder has so many unclaimed puppies lying around that they are out there scouring the net for buyers. There is typically a waiting list, usually quite long, for pups from reputable breeders, and that includes pet quality pups. Often, waiting lists are filled even before a pregnancy has been confirmed.

Buyers search for breeders, not the other way around.

 

[Dollyboons]

I think you should do more research before you just decide that a service dog cannot be intact.... In the state of California they have a spay and nueter law, but the law does NOT apply to service dogs. Service dogs can be intact, no problem. Many people breed their replacement dog, from their first dog, to have the best opportunity for a replacement. Obviously with an intact dog, you should take precautions, to protect yourself and your dog. But it's not aginst the law even to take a service dog in heat into public!

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

I think the main reason you are having trouble is the full reg part of your request. Personally, I can count one one hand the number of full reg dogs that I have ever placed. When I have sold on full reg, it was always with a co-own unless I already know the person very well. As a breeder, if I were to receive a request such as yours, it would immediately raise red flags to me. Service dogs dont need to be on full reg, in fact, as was previously stated, I thought they were usually spayed/neutered. And just because you have a wonderful service dog doesnt mean he/she will produce another wonderful service dog. And unless you already have lots of experience, breeding a litter can put your girl in a lot of danger if things dont go as planned. Part of the problem with breeding a litter without a breeder mentor is that inexperience means you can miss out on the very subtle signs in the beginning that things are not going normally. If you have a girl that is having a complication, and you dont realize it early on, what would have started out as an unplanned C section can turn into a disaster for your girl if you wait too long to bring her in and get help. I know it seems that the people you are talking too are being unreasonable, but my biggest concern for my puppies is their health and safety....and speaking solely as a breeder with no information about you, placing one of my girls with someone who is unexpereinced in breeding and " may breed her someday to try to get another service dog", puts my puppy at risk.

 

[Sun Valley]

When I'm paying 3000 dollars for a dog, I am allowed to be picky.
Breeders all started somewhere, as normal people... I know a thing or two about dogs, and I have a HUGE support system./QUOTE]

Who in the world is asking $3000.00 for a puppy??

You never stated to me that you wanted to breed...only that you wanted a 'service dog'

Reputable breeders are very passionate about their dogs and they want only the best for them and the homes they sell too, which is why we only sell pets on limited registration.

Why would you want a service dog to be intact? Wouldn't those raging hormones make it difficult to be a good service dog?

Are you familiar with the breed enough to start breeding? Are you familiar with the different bloodlines? Have you gone to the NCA and read the correct info they offer?

Lou Ann

 

[Angela]

I think you should do more research before you just decide that a service dog cannot be intact.... In the state of California they have a spay and nueter law, but the law does NOT apply to service dogs. Service dogs can be intact, no problem. Many people breed their replacement dog, from their first dog, to have the best opportunity for a replacement. Obviously with an intact dog, you should take precautions, to protect yourself and your dog. But it's not aginst the law even to take a service dog in heat into public!

Well, I'm sorry because I had no idea that you could take your intact service dog out in public even if in heat. Does that apply to Oregon also?
Guess up here it's a No No so I assumed it was the same down in Oregon,
Sorry!

 

[Dollyboons]

I think people here are trying to help you but are now confused.
First you say you want a service dog, then you want a dog to breed. That seems to be our confusion.
Service dogs are spayed/neutered. You can't have a service dog intact, can you? I don't think so.

http://saveourdogs.net/category/working_dogs/

 

[pabusinesswoman]

Well no one here has come close to answering my original question. I'm not even sure anyone here knows what the question was.
No I haven't considered a rescue dog. I have had several poud puppies in my life, and I just don't want to go that direction with my service dog.

Dolly...

Your original question was answered in my first post. There is no specific listing for good AKC breeders that I am aware of. Most are through word of mouth.

 

[Dollyboons]

FOR THE RECORD THE ONLY PLACE I HAVE HAD TROUBLE WITH FULL REGISTRATION IS HERE, NOT FROM ANY OF THE BREEDERS I AM IN CONTACT WITH!!!!
"One thing though, you will not be able to buy a pet from a reputable breeder unless you have it spayed.

Good luck on your search.

Lou Ann
www.sunvalleynewfs.com"

I've always made what I am looking for clear, even to you, I had NO interest in buying a dog from you, only your thoughts on another breeder whom you had listed on your website.

 

[NessaM]

I think your best bet, if this course of action is the one that you're really determined to follow, would be to find a breeder who was willing to breed your replacement dog for you when the time came.

No one is accusing you of being ignorant of dogs and training, but if this is your first newf, you might not be aware of the difficulties inherent in breeding and raising a healthy litter of Newf puppies - giant breed dogs are just different from your average canine. The mother must be supervised every moment that she is with her litter, to prevent accidental injuries or fatalities. Even the most zealous breeder may be unable to prevent the mother from stepping on one of the puppies, resulting in broken bones, internal injuries, or death. We've got a new member here now whose puppy has a broken tail because the mom stepped on it, and it wasn't that breeder's first litter, nor was she lax in her vigilance - accidents happen.

There's a video in the photos and videos section of a new litter - showing the breeder tube feeding one of the pups. That may be necessary too. I can tell you I've got two newfs, and raised one litter of Jack Russell puppies once upon a time, and I am 100% certain I'd put the feeding tube into the lung instead of the stomach if I ever had to tube feed a newborn. I just don't think I could do it. That's me. Maybe you've had to tube-feed a puppy before! I'm not trying to make assumptions about what you have and have not done. Just pointing out one of the hazards of the profession.

I know my breeder had a litter of 16 pups a year or two ago, and the mother had zero milk. The breeder had to feed the pups every two hours - and with sixteen to feed, by the time she'd finished #16, #1 needed to eat again. She had to call in everyone in her network, (she's an established breeder belonging to multiple local newf clubs), for help with feeding, and also with finding formula! She bought every can of formula her vet could find for her in state, and was having breeder friends in other states ship crates of it to her! 16 puppies go through a lot of formula. I'm pretty sure by the time the pups were on solids my breeder, her family, and all of her friends, had gone for weeks without sleep.

The benefits to being an established breeder, as someone else mentioned already, is that they will have a list of prospective homes for puppies prior to the mating even taking place. Yes, every breeder had to start somewhere - but it is much easier if you've got an established breeder as a mentor to walk you through the process, help you with any emergencies, and best of all lend you their client list to place the surplus puppies.

I guess, if I were in your position, I'd form a relationship with a breeder that I liked, respected and trusted. I'd bring home my female puppy, train her up as a service dog, and then bring her back to the breeder when it was time to breed my replacement pup. I'd let my breeder choose the stud - as my breeder would be the one best informed about what bloodlines would help compliment the pros and cons of my bitch. And I would request that the bitch stay with the breeder for the delivery and raising of the pups - because there is just too much that I don't know about pregnancy, whelping, and the healthy raising of newborn giant breed dogs. Again, that's me. For all I know you're a veterinarian who specializes in obstetrics! But I do think that the above scenario is a compromise that most reputable breeders would feel comfortable with - many are leery of allowing breedings to take place with their bloodlines outside of their purview. For a lot of reasons - not least of which is the habit of BYBs to breed a single animal indiscriminately to take advantage of a well-known kennel's name.

(Obviously this is not what you plan to do - I do not mean to insinuate that you do - but I guarantee you that reputable breeders will have heard stories like yours from unscrupulous folks trying to get their hands on an intact bitch or stud for puppy mill breeding - and they've learned to be wary.)

Bottom line, I guess - is if you want a breeder to take you seriously as a prospective owner, and as a future breeder yourself, you need to create a relationship of lasting duration with the breeder of your puppy. Joining your local newf club, attending events, volunteering during tests and workshops, attending the births of several litters of puppies and assisting with their subsequent raising and weaning, would all go a long way toward assuring a quality breeder that you, yourself, intend to BE a quality breeder.

 

[pabusinesswoman]

I think you should do more research before you just decide that a service dog cannot be intact.... In the state of California they have a spay and nueter law, but the law does NOT apply to service dogs. Service dogs can be intact, no problem. Many people breed their replacement dog, from their first dog, to have the best opportunity for a replacement. Obviously with an intact dog, you should take precautions, to protect yourself and your dog. But it's not aginst the law even to take a service dog in heat into public!

Just thinking out loud...

It may not be against the law...I guess it depends what kind of service the dog would be doing. If your mostly home bound, the question would be a mute point.

If I had to have a dog with me everyday for service walking in and out of facillities each day... especially having a background with females.. that I have canceled therapy visits due to heat cycles.. wouldn't it be inconsiderate to take a bleeding female into public facilities? That is not even considering the possiblity of oops litters walking down the street from unattended males. Some males have been know to jump 8' fences for an in heat female. Depending on the reason why you need a service dog, I would think that may pose a saftey risk.

 

[Dollyboons]

ve the best opportunity for a replacement. Obviously with an intact dog, you should take precautions, to protect yourself and your dog. But it's not aginst the law even to take a service dog in heat into public!
Again

 

[pabusinesswoman]

FOR THE RECORD THE ONLY PLACE I HAVE HAD TROUBLE WITH FULL REGISTRATION IS HERE, NOT FROM ANY OF THE BREEDERS I AM IN CONTACT WITH!!!!
"One thing though, you will not be able to buy a pet from a reputable breeder unless you have it spayed.

Good luck on your search.

Lou Ann
www.sunvalleynewfs.com"

I've always made what I am looking for clear, even to you, I had NO interest in buying a dog from you, only your thoughts on another breeder whom you had listed on your website.

Dolly...

Lou Ann is a WELL respected breeder in many circles. Most good AKC breeders follow a similar protocol. Perhaps your looking at BYB's?

Not trying to be argumentative here... honestly.. but I really don't follow your logic..

If the bitch you have did not work for therapy work, what says another dog/bitch out of those same lines and genes would still produce what your looking for? It may not. Therefore, would that venue truely be the best option for replacement? By not going back to a breeder who has a more diverse genetic pool/ selection than you with a single bitch, wouldn't you increase your probablity for success in a proper replacement if your ultimate goal is a good service dog?

Above I said about it may not be a law to spay/ neuter a service dog but common sense to me would say for safety reasons it would be suggestable. I would also think it is common courtesy to those facilities in which you wish to patronize.

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

If she wasn't totally upfront with Lou Ann about her motivations and future plans, I wonder how forthright she was with Tarbeary Newfoundlands, whom she says she has a sales agreemeent with? I'm sorry, but red flags are waving like mad, IMHO :uhoh2:

 

[Dollyboons]

Dolly...

Lou Ann is a WELL respected breeder in many circles. Most good AKC breeders follow a similar protocol. Perhaps your looking at BYB's?

Not trying to be argumentative here... honestly.. but I really don't follow your logic..

If the bitch you have did not work for therapy work,

patronize.

What bitch that I have????

 

[Sun Valley]

She is correct in the fact that she wanted to know more about the breeder she has a deposit with and who I have warnings posted on my web site about. I have NO problems telling people the truth about what happened to *ME* with this so called breeder. In fact I will tell the world. And that's what happened when I gave this person the benefit of the doubt, sold her a puppy and got completely screwed by this so called breeder.

And that's another reason why we are very careful about selling with a full registration.

But you did inquire about puppies, which I didn't have and sent you to another breeder and to the NCA web site. In your email you told me you wanted a service dog with full registration, to which I replied that would be difficult.

You keep saying people aren't answering your question...well, you never mentioned mine in regards to your familiarity with the breed, breeding and pedigree knowledge.

Lou Ann

 

[Dollyboons]

If she wasn't totally upfront with Lou Ann about her motivations and future plans, I wonder how forthright she was with Tarbeary Newfoundlands, whom she says she has a sales agreemeent with? I'm sorry, but red flags are waving like mad, IMHO :uhoh2:

How was I not upfront with lue Ann? She has it listed on her website that if your going to buy from Tarbeary to contact her... And then she told me "buyer beware". Im not sure how I could have been more upfront with her..... Or tarbeary for that matter.

But "IMHO" people you have to worry about don't usualy join websites for help with training, etc....

I am happy to supply my breeder with a full list of references, te name and number of my trainer, and vet, my mothers maiden name, and any other information that would help me buy the RIGHT puppy.

 

[lilly06]

Nessa-Well said and good advice.