Your thoughts???

[Jager's Mom]

It seems that there are more and more newfs out there that are not the "normal" sweet newf. I keep hearing that a newf doesn't get along with other dogs, people, animals. That they may even be aggressive. WHY? Why does it seem like the breeding of these dogs is going the wrong direction? It breaks my heart...as I love this sweet and loving breed. I just want to see it stay sweet.

Your thoughts?

 

[Bison]

Three words: Back Yard Breeders.
Grrrrrrrrrr.

.

 

[BlackLightning]

I consider temperament to be part of 'type' and in order to keep it, breeders must breed for it. Because there are so many BYB's out there just putting two dogs together without any regard to 'type' you end up with poor temperaments.

 

[ajcooksey]

I love how sweet ours are and it makes me sad to hear of others that aren't. It makes me wonder if its byb combined with nurture. We pour love into our dogs and they give it back tenfold. I wonder if the ones that are not as sweet were not given that or socialized as well when they were young.

 

[charlieinnj]

It seems that there are more and more newfs out there that are not the "normal" sweet newf. I keep hearing that a newf doesn't get along with other dogs, people, animals. That they may even be aggressive. WHY? Why does it seem like the breeding of these dogs is going the wrong direction? It breaks my heart...as I love this sweet and loving breed. I just want to see it stay sweet.

Your thoughts?

JMHO, but to me the "normal" sweet newf is more the result of a proper owner than it is the result of a proper breeder. To me, it goes back to Pit Bulls, etc. You get in, what you put out.

I think there are a LOT of mis-informed buyers that think the "normal" sweet newf just "happens. If you don't put in the time and effort towards socialization and training then it's the dog that suffers. I see so many people screwing up dogs due to their ignorance and laziness. :banghead:

 

[Henrys Mom]

I don't think it's all backyard breeders. I see very many reputable breeders with Newfs that are not the "normal" sweet. I do think that proper training plays a big key but I also think that all Newfs are just not going to be super sweet. Some are going to be strong willed, disruptive, naughty Newfs. It doesn't mean that aren't going to make good pets, it just means they are going to need a lot more training and a lot of patience on the part of the owners. We have had 2 completely different Newfs from the same breeder. One as sweet and awesome as they come. The best dog we have ever had. The other, pig headed, aggressive, wild and unruly yet still sweet when he wanted to be. Both raised and trained by the same people! We loved the heck out of both of them but the second one was just different, very different. I have no idea why this was I just think that all dogs are different.

 

[Wayne A]

I think BYB are contributing to health issues more then temperament although there actions don't do anything to preserve this precious breed. Like Charlie said proper socializing is a major contributor to any dogs personality. You will always get that renegade pup that can have charming litter-mates. Dogs have personality just like people we are all different. We can only do as much as we can to preserve this incredible breed.Nature will be nature and people will be people.The people part scares me.:beatdeadhorse:

 

[cmorgan.1505]

JMHO, but to me the "normal" sweet newf is more the result of a proper owner than it is the result of a proper breeder. To me, it goes back to Pit Bulls, etc. You get in, what you put out.

I think there are a LOT of mis-informed buyers that think the "normal" sweet newf just "happens. If you don't put in the time and effort towards socialization and training then it's the dog that suffers. I see so many people screwing up dogs due to their ignorance and laziness. :banghead:

This!!! It takes time and attention to have a super sweet dog. People just think they are perfect from birth.

 

[NinaA]

I agree - it's not that the breed is going bad, it's that too many people expect them to be born perfect. I'm always amazed to go to the vet's office and see dogs behaving horribly and the owners are totally oblivious. Our vet asked, "How do you get Moonlight to roll over to have her lady parts wiped off like that? She does it so easily. She does it for us to draw urine samples." It's simple. She was raised like our children. Lots of love, lots of respect, lots of discipline (note I didn't say control) and lots of trust that we will take good care of her. Result is that she wants to be good. I never train with treats. "Good girl" is what they want. And, obviously all this takes a lot of work.

 

[R Taft]

I also think it is about socialization and training.......Even the aggressive newfie that have been untrained or mistreated can be brought back to being sweet and there are not many breeds you can do that with.I have now helped with several aggressive newfies from good Breeders, who socialized the puppies well before they left and they are all now great sweet dogs...So many people think you can just get a good dog with minimum effort.it takes a lot of time and family involement and being part of the "pack" to make a sweet newfie. Even the best bred newfie from good parentage can turn into a dog from hell (my Annabelle)...training and good leadership.which some people have naturally and they do not even realize they are training, so they have set all those boundaries and given all the time that any dog needs

 

[victoria1140]

lots of socialisation and training, obviously genetics plays a part as well.

So far I have had two hellraiser newfs , sweet and loving but highly challenging and both had good genetic lines. it takes time and patience and sometimes the bad ones are the ones that need structure and a job to do and something to challenge their energy levels.

At the moment i am on holiday and have had to walk Max as much as my gsd's otherwise he is a handful whereas once tired he is a lovely boy but he just wants to whizz everywhere and it takes time for him to learn to listen.

He gets an extraordianary amount of training and different techniques used just to focus his brain and yet once focused he is amazing with what he will do. obviously our gsd's are brilliant with him and patient but he knows they wont tolerate his shenanigans and its two against one.So he has to learn to walk the line.

Also dont forget especially with rescues we dont always know what has been done to them, Beau hated flapping coats , people with hoods on and people who shouted a lot. He would stiffen and rumble and occasionally growl but with the right framework and training he learnt to tolerate things. sometimes with temperament newfs its about giving them the tools to be able to cope .

so for every poor temperament newf I see out there I wonder with the right approach and tools would they be as bad?

 

[crubin]

Making the decision to bring a puppy or dog into your home is the sane as deciding to have a baby. You have to be willing to put effort into your new baby as needed in order to have a happy, healthy, well adjusted family member. You would not yell at or hit a baby. You wouldn't expose it to dangerous or inappropriate situations. Unfortunately, many people see a pet as something to entertain them and make them happy. It needs to be the other way around if you want to have the right results. People seem to understand that raising their children is a full time job. Too bad we can't make them understand that about their fur children.

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

I agree with everything that's already been said - especially the stuff about people thinking these dogs are simply born this way and there's no training involved.

Y'all know how laid back (LAZY) my Elvis is. He's as sweet as they come, but we've put a lot of work into him. I'm not lying when I say he's been to formal training five separate times, including a two week boot camp where he actually went and lived with his trainer. That was in the middle of his "I'm scared of everything" phase and he needed all the help he could get.

Another issue here is that these dogs are not "train once and you're done" type of animals. Elvis didn't need training five times because he's stupid - he needed to go back because he's so freakin smart he needed another challenge (except for the scaredy cat phase. Who know's what that was!). Taking a newf to a puppy class when they're 5 months old isn't the only thing you're going to need to do with these guys. They need constant reinforcement and new challenges/exposures.

Any time we get compliments on Elvis' manners or comments about how sweet and laid back he is, I make sure the person knows that we spend a LOT of time (and money) to get/keep him this way.

 

[padkins]

I agree too! I have two Newfs that are totally different personalities. They like and respond to different things. You get in what you put in. Lots of love and training. You can't ignore them and just wait for them to grow up without giving any direction. You have to occasionally remind them of things that they have learned and when they make a mistake do some more training and teach them how to learn from that mistake. They also remind me of the things that I have learned and show me when I make a mistake and need more training. It's a give and take!

 

[dumainedogs]

Nature vs. Nurture. Classic debate! Obie came from a decent breeder and was well socialized with people and other animals, I thought anyway. But, he is a very fearful dog. As a result, he can be fear aggressive in that he tries to scare off *people* who frighten him and is extraordinarily skittish of changes in his environment. (Last night he would not step over his food bowl which I had left in a narrow walkway.. I had to move it!) With work, a behaviorist and prozac, I've brought him a long way. His reactivity is under control, but I know I will always have to be vigilant. To the best of my knowledge, his littermates don't have this issue. So, nature? nuture? luck of the draw?

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Our guy comes from good lines and we have been vigilant in socializing him, with both dogs and people. However, since the day we brought him home until now, he has had no interest in being pet or cuddled by strangers. Funny coming from a breed that's very people oriented. He'll tolerate it if treats are being given at the same time, but given the choice, he moves away from them. Our family can give him as much loving and cuddles as we like and he'll take it all in happily - but strangers, or even neighbours that he's met dozens and dozens of times, he has no love for. There's no growling or anything, he just moves as far away as he can with most, or will randomly decide that 'this one's ok' and go up to them himself. It seems to be a crap shoot. Both of his parents are typical Newfs wanting to be loved on by all, and I bristle if someone were to suggest that his is a result of 'nurture', as I think he's out and about and in training more than most dogs - he just loves his own people and has no need for others. Dogs on the other hand, he adores and will do anything to play with them - even if he's getting snapped at by a yappy little thing, he stands there, tail wagging.

So while I think there may be an element of breeding in some cases, and it may be nurture in some others, I think there are just different personalities in some dogs, Newf or not, that lead them to act in varying ways.

Edit - Jager's mom mentioned "Why does it seem like the breeding of these dogs is going the wrong direction?" - I wonder if this is actually true or if it's like many things now a days and it's not in fact a problem that's becoming worse, it's just one we're hearing about more now that there are so many technological ways of connecting with others. Crime in Toronto is a great example to use for this - every year, the majority of people think that it's increasing, as there are terrible stories on the news and in the paper every day. But the actual truth is that it's declining - it's just being reported more often, thus giving us a skewed perspective. I wonder if there hasn't always been a wide variety of Newf personalities, but we lacked forums such as these to connect with other owners and hear about them.