Sorry to be a pest????

[Brinks' Mom]

I'm sorry if I'm being a pest in asking questions but I trust all of your answers.

Ok....Brinks was on an all RAW diet mixed with a little bit of Innova when he was with breeder. I switched him to Canidae and am trying to incorporate some RAW too. Here's my question....he seems to like the Canidae the best when something is mixed in with it. The yogurt is a big hit but I don't give him that every day. Last night while at the store buying ingredients for Satin Balls...I thought of maybe mixing some baby food in there. So I bought the Beech-Nut Stage 1 Turkey & Turkey Broth. He LOVED IT!!! Ingredients say turkey and turkey broth and one little jar is 90 calories with 8g of protein, 5g fat. Its 2.5 ounces and I mixed it with 1 cup and a half of Canidae. Hopefully its ok but before I give it to him again I wanted some feedback. I also bought the Chicken & Chicken Broth (ingred. ground chicken and broth) and a jar of Green Beans. I read here that the vegetables need to be pureed so I thought of the baby food jars.

Might I mention that as I was mixing the Satin Balls ingredients........he went balistic (spelling?) Molasses, eggs, oatmeal, ground beef, ground turkey, Total cereal and I thought I had some flax seed oil but I didnt' so I added Omega 3-6-9 oil instead. I know its not exactly the Satin Balls ingredients...I hope its ok though. Needless to say Brinks had to have some..no way no how was it going to be put away for the next day. So he got a baseball sized portion and ate it like there was no tomorrow. I made all the portions into baseball sizes and put two to a freezer bag. Please let me know if I'm doing anything I shouldn't be.

Also....the butcher is starting to put the turkey and chicken necks on the side for me and will be ready for pick up next week. The vet is against feeding RAW but that was expected anyway. Only thing that concerns me with raw chicken and turkey is salmonella passing on to one of us or my kids. Very scary thought!! I look forward to hearing some feedback....thank you in advance.

 

[KatieB]

Well I'll add my two cents here...Bella is 11 weeks and skin and bones and puppy fluff...she's 26 pounds but I gave her her first bath today and was a bit scared at how thin she is...although I know she's perfectly healthy and am convinced she's this thin because of her activity level...I have been wondering if she's eating enough.

We feed Murphy raw and will switch Bella to raw but not until she's at least a year old and probably 2 years. Bella gets Canidae All Life Stages and 2 to 2.5 cups a day. She acts absolutely starved...but I want to keep her very thin and her growth VERY slow. She gained a pound and a half in the week we've had her so I think that is good slow growth. She doesn't get any treats right now as we wanted to minimize tummy upset until she gets fully switched the Canidae and settled in. She gets no table scraps either. I know I sound like a food Nazi but I really just want to make sure she grows slowly and the best way for me to do that is to really monitor everything going in.

So Carmela I don't have a great answer for you...feeding is so individual. We have chosen not to feed Bella raw as a pup as I don't trust myself to get her hutritional needs correct and I don't want to cause growth problems...thus the kibble. I know our Berner breeder feeds all raw from the beginning and she has raised plenty of healthy happy champions...she is also far more knowledgeable than I about canine nutrition.

I would be concerned about the sodium levels in baby food or chicken broth. If you could check on the labels...most canned food tends to be much to high in sodium for people or dogs...so look for the reduced sodium kinds. As far as a baseball size portion of the Satin Balls that sounds pretty large for a snack. Perhaps if you substituted that for some kibble to replace his lunchtime meal or something.

Be careful introducing new things to his diet as dogs and young pups tend to have very sensitive tummies to changing ingredients in their diet. I learned that the hard way with Murph...and my dad's carpet paid the price...oops.

If your breeder feeds raw I'd definitely seek her advice...our Berner breeder wanted us to feed raw from the beginning while our Newfie breeder says that feeding raw prior to a year of age will void the contract for the health guarantee. So you might want to check with that.

Oh also it's my understanding that feeding raw and kibble in the same meal can upset the tummy as they have different digestion rates. So if you are going to feed raw feed it at only lunchtime with no kibble or a midday snack. Ok if you have other questiosn PM me as this is getting long....

 

[amyk]

I don't think there's a lot of sodium in baby food, but just be careful that there is no onion powder, sometimes they put that into baby food, and that could cause problems for dogs. My breeder feeds raw from puppyhood also, with no problems, but I also was afraid I didn't know enough about nutrition, so I switched Eloise to kibble when she came home. I haven't switched her back, although I did buy a couple books on raw diets, so I may switch to raw eventually.

 

[sarnewfie]

Be careful with puppies and the satin balls, first i would make sure there are no worms, they can pick them up anytime anywhere no matter when the stool was last checked.
next, my pups are all very thin when wet, and, i am not at all alarmed by that, feeding sating balls might add more weight on than what he needs or should have at this point and time.
be careful and ever mindful each and every day he is on the satin balls.
mine love the pumpkin mess i mix together with mollases and honey etc,... in them, they sit and patiently hope some of it miraculously plops on the floor!

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Carmela,
We feed Canidae mixed with raw organic lamb and chicken chunks plus veggies. Max only eats if we add something to the Canidae...he is a very fussy eater. I know, I know I should just put it down and take it away if he doesn't eat but he is skinny! I like the raw chunks because I take them out of the freezer each day so the risk of bateria is very small. A baked sweet potato might be good as something different than yogurt...it doesn't have to be pureed and most dogs love them. Very healthy too!

 

[Brinks' Mom]

Brinks is fussy too....will only eat the Canidae if I add some flavor to it. He'll eat it with a little warm water added to it but I could tell he doesnt really enjoy it as much. I've never heard of raw organic lamb....is that at the supermarket?? and when you say chicken chunks...do you just cut up the chicken breast boneless or is there bone in there??? Our breeder was feeding whole chicken backs...we tried it once and raw chicken got everywhere. The thought of bacteria spreading to one of kids makes me nervous. Baked sweet potato sounds good. Thanks for the idea.

 

[sarnewfie]

you guys already know this, but, you create monsters by tending their wants and desires like that

and,,,, part of growing is the "thin stage" to me it is a blessing and, it helps the joints more than a lot of people realize.
contraversy surounds the growth of pups, many will disagree and say husky is better, but i believe the thin stage is fabulous esp when bones are forming and setting.

 

[Ohana Mom]

We do not feed raw - but I do have a question. Our Vet does not recommend lamb for dogs. She is fairly well versed in nutrtion, believes in a lot of holistic practices - but really recommended against feeding anything with lamb. She says she had recently read some studies finding lamb at the cuase of problems. I am sorry - I can't remember the issues (I think it was heart related) but this was a hot button for her. Just wanted to share with you.

 

[CMDRTED]

Sorry to go off topic - SAR check your PM's

 

[saddust]

Originally posted by Ohana Mom ( Iz's Mom):
We do not feed raw - but I do have a question. Our Vet does not recommend lamb for dogs. She is fairly well versed in nutrtion, believes in a lot of holistic practices - but really recommended against feeding anything with lamb. She says she had recently read some studies finding lamb at the cuase of problems. I am sorry - I can't remember the issues (I think it was heart related) but this was a hot button for her. Just wanted to share with you.

She is likely referring to not wanting to feed a diet "soley" made up of lamb-based kibble due to the lack of taurine - an enzyme that is necessary for good heart health... The basis of raw diets is variety over time, i.e., you don't feed one single protein - but rather a variety of proteins (including heart muscle and red meat which is high in taurine) to help simulate a natural diet... (i.e., you don't eat the same meal - good or bad - every day as that would not offer a balanced diet).

Hope that helps!

Karen

 

[Largo]

The concern is with lamb and rice diets and the link with taurine deficiency which can lead to cardiomyopathy (Dialated Cardiomyopathy). As well as other problems.

Lamb is not deficient in the required sulfur amino acids methionine and cysteine, which are the precursors for taurine synthesis, but the bioavailability of them is low and taurine sythesis from lamb and rice diets is marginal.

The rice in the diet may further be a problem. As well as the low protein formulation of lamb and rice diets that further reduces availability. This is a concern when the lamb in the diet is the major or sole source of animal protein. Some but not all lamb and rice diets are now supplimented with taurine.

edited to add: oops, didn't see your post karen.

Fish is an excellent source for these amino acids as well any many other nutrients that are good for the developing skeleton and the whole body.

[ 12-23-2006, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Largo ]

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Sarnewfie...I agree, I think that lean, almost skinny stage is healthy too and I am not helping by "doctering up" his food but it doesn't bother me to do it, so does it do any harm to him? We feed raw lamb with 2 cups of Canidae each meal, so I don't think the lamb is a problem.
Carmela, We get raw organic lamb and chicken chunks at our local feed store. They are ground lamb or ground chicken (also come in venison, rabbit and beef) in 1 oz. chunks. Very easy to take out of the freezer and thaw in the refrig the night before without any handling of raw meat.

 

[leningradka]

An ignorant question: what is a Satin Ball?
Linda, Byron is only 80 lbs, and every feeding I cross my fingers that he will finish his food (which he doesn't most of the time). But the vet says he is not too skinny and everyone says he is just a "small newf".

I still hope he will get to at least 100 lbs., though I highly doubt he will ever get to more than 120.
What do you all think about tripe? Our breeder mailed it to us as a part of the Xmas present (canned tripe) and I added it to their food, and they loved it (though Byron is starting to get fussy with that too). The breeder says she only gives it to her gang once a week, but i have been giving it to them daily b/c they eat!!
As far as spoiling them, I tried not to give anything in the food, and after almost 3 days (!!!!!!) of not eating, I gave in and gave up. Why do they do this to us? So many people say they just put the kibble down, and the dogs happily eat it.
Remember what our moms used to say when we didnt eat as kids: "there are kids in Africa starving!!!" I wish I could tell Byron: there are doggies out on the street startving, while you are turning your nose up at this very expensive food!! "Too bad he would not understand.
OK, obviously off topic, sorry for ranting....

 

[sarnewfie]

CapNted
i replied to your second PM

 

[Pam G]

Olga,
Joey used to be very picky. I never knew when he would eat and often would have to put his dish up and try to give it to him later or add yogurt etc. Such a pain when you have more than one dog because the others were waiting eagerly to gobble it up if he walked away from his bowl.
I never had a problem with Hogan and Hunter. They enhale their food and always have.
It's strange now though, because every since Joey's been neutered he gobbles up his food like there is no tomorrow. Nothing added..just plain old kibble with a little water.
It will be interesting to see if the neuter affects Byron's appetite too.

 

[angie j]

Go ahead and spoil the dog! As long as you are ready to back up the behavior at every meal..lol. Pour anything you think he might like on the meal. I realy want to encourage nutrition, but, we sure eat all the cookies, cake and goodies we want without worrying if we are spoiled...IMO; Just don't OVER feed/calories, and make an unhealthy overweight pup. And yes, watch for ingredients that are doggie no no's (onions, ... is there a list here on NN?)

Skinny is normal for a growing Newf/person and as long as you've got a healthy eater with a good amount of muscle tone and healthy stools thats great.

As for passing along bacteria, just be reasonable. Keep your working area clean and use the same rules you'd use when preparing meals for your own family. If the floor/crate is a mess after meals, disinfect appropriately. When storing raw foods keep them sepatated in tupperware containers so there is no contact with the rest of your food and clean those containers every few days (when you restock).

Angie J

 

[Murphy]

I agree with Angie !!!! I am no expert, but whatever happened to common sense. I feed Murphy a good quality kibble and his chondritin,glucosamine,ester C and salmon oil supplements. I also add a little wet food, or grated cheese or a little left over beef. Just to give him some variety and the occasional treat. We humans have treats, so why shouldn't our dogs if they are not harmful.

 

[NessaM]

I'm in the "spoil them!" camp. I get bored if I eat the same cereal for a week in a row, I can't imagine being asked to eat the same meal twice a day for my entire life!!!

Nanook gets either cottage cheese or plain yogurt every morning with his breakfast kibble. With his dinner he gets either raw ground lamb or beef, or wet canidae. He gets veggies three times a week, and an egg twice a week. Whenever I have something extra lying around, I'll add a little of that too.

 

[KatieB]

Well Bella was acting starved on 3 cups still...so now she is at 3.5 to 4 cups depending on how much kibble goes in her kong...she gets yogurt or cottage cheese with breakfast...usually just a plain lunch..sometimes an egg or some veggie mix...and a bit of the raw scraps we have left over when we make Murphy's meals for dinner. SHE LOVES FOOD. We switched Murphy to raw cause he hated kibble and tired of it after a week or so...he loves the variety of raw so we are trying to keep Bella's kibble interesting although she'd eat it regardless. The hard part is keeping her away from Murphy's bowl when he's eating breakfast and dinner....I can just hear her saying MOM he gets to eat yummy raw food with steak, fish, pork, chicken, lamb and yummy veggie mix and you feed me this dry junk

We'll weigh her this weekend and hopefully she'll have gained a few pounds.

 

[MGoBlue]

I agree with Christine.
If you're regularly adding stuff on top of the kibble, it should be primarily becuase of the nutritional value it adds to their overall diet. (especially if you're messing with the nutrition being provided to a growing pup!!! - I hope that in all of the yogurt, cottage cheese, and other "scraps" mentioned above, the additionanl calcium and protein is being considered...)
Catering to a finicky dog only reinforces alpha tendencies and "creates the monster" that Christine mentioned.
Your Newf doesn't think, "Wow, Mom sure is being super sweet, giving me variety in my diet like this. I am really grateful..." Instead, your newf learns, "Hey, if I put up enough fuss, Mom will cave and give me something else." Your newf learns that it has the control, not you.
In my opinion, that is a slippery slope in the general relationship between you and your pet.