Please help with chronic diarrhea :(

soccerbabiesmama

New member
This is a long narrative, sorry - but it has been going on for several months and we'd just like her to be totally well.

Our 9 month old Raven has quite the tummy issues. My parents bought her from the breeder at 4 months old for our children while Dad was in the Middle East for his 14th deployment. She came with a brand of food called "Sport Mix," was up to date on shots, had been vet checked and was well. After research and talking with our local dog food person, we started her on Fromm Large Breed Puppy. For the first 3 months that we had her, she'd have intermittent soft stools, but figured that was normal a normal part of puppiness.

We've not been in our new house long, and there was an untrimmed hedgerow in our backyard along the house that Raven used to love to wiggle behind. One morning, she had the craziest green diarrhea and I knew immediately that she had been poisoned. Sure enough, the previous owners had placed rat poison along the back of the hedgerow and the house and Raven ate 4 bags. We called the Poison Control after totally freaking out, who assured us that she would be fine with a Vitamin K regimen. We rushed her into the vet, who did bloodwork once a week for several weeks and kept her on the vitamin K regimen. She was fine:) Never showed a clotting deficiency.

During Christmas, we traveled with her to my sister's house in Scottsdale AZ, staying at pet friendly military lodging the whole way across. Raven loved the dogfood of my sister's lab.husky mix, which was Kirtland Lamb and Rice from Costco. She was never very fond of the Fromm LBP, and the ingredients looked pretty good, so we began to mix some in... and there started the problem.

On the trip home, Raven wasn't quite herself, and during the last 3 hours, her poor tummy totally let loose in the back of our SUV. She was drooling non-stop and very, very ill. Over Christmas, she got MANY treats, from eating turkey off of the kids plates, buffalo jerky from family members, dog biscuits, chicken treats... the list goes on! Everyone was in love with the new puppy, and were showing her love by feeding her (despite our best efforts to stop it - kids!). We assumed that her tummy upset was due to the wide range of food that she had just been exposed to.

We read on the internet, to hold back food for 24 hours, then give plain rice and chicken. So we did that, and she didn't get better. We took her to the vet (because we don't want to take any chances with her), who in January prescribed Sucralfate. She started to get better, as long as we didn't do the chicken and rice. Back to the Fromm mixed with lamb and rice, she got better, then sick again. We took out the Lamb and Rice, she was better, stopped the Sucralfate, then she was sick again. We started the Sucralfate again, switched from the Fromm LBP to Fromm Whitefish and Potato (which the vet said is a novel diet and good choice) - and she loves it! But, if we stop the Sucralfate, she gets very, very loose stools with mucus.

Does anyone know if there are long term effects from the long term use of Sucralfate? Could it be that she'll just be on that forever? Even though there was no clotting deficiency from the rat poison, could that have damaged her GI tract? She has been on the Sucralfate and Whitefish for over a week, with firm, normal stools but 24 hours off the med and we get soft light colored stools with mucus.

Lastly, her weight gain has really slowed down since January. She was 85lbs at 7 months, gaining 12-15lbs a month. She has only gained 12 lbs over the past 2 months. I assume that the weight gain slows as they get older. but it does coincide with the chronic diarrhea.

Any advice, thoughts, experiences would be helpful. We just totally love this girl!
 

soccerbabiesmama

New member
I should also add, that her stool tests came back clear, except 1 lonely round worm egg a month ago. We are doing our follow up Panacur this week.
 

Angela

Super Moderator
I googled that drug as I hadn't heard of it and there don't appear to really be any side effects except constipation!

What does your vet say about using it long term?
 

victoria1140

Active member
could she be allergic to certain food such as rice or grain.

Has she had any allergy tests as it could also be an enviromental issue?

we had to try over 15 different types of food before we found something that eventually worked for Beau.He used to have the mucousy stools and for him it was a form of IBS. We gave some plain yoghurt, slippery elm , chamomile and charcoal tablets. We also supplemented his diet with raw bones and every so often a raw meal to boost his stomach.

If Raven cant tolerate dairy then there are probiotic supplements which might help.
We also give Beau a teaspoon of local honey daily as he has hayfever allergies and this helps tremendously.

Hope you find an answer , let us know when you do
 

Garden_girl

New member
Never heard of it either, but I did see that there are possible side effects from long term use:


From Drs. Foster/Smith-

Sucralfate is an antiulcer medication. It coats ulcers in the digestive system and protects them from further damage from stomach acid. It is used in the treatment of ulcers of the esophagus, stomach, or small intestine. It may prevent ulcers in animals taking aspirin or other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Sucralfate can affect the absorption of many other medications. Do not give any medications within 2 hours of giving sucralfate. Side effects are rare. Contact your veterinarian if your pet experiences constipation while being treated with sucralfate. With long-term use, the aluminum in sucralfate may accumulate in the brain, or in the bones, causing the bones to weaken.

I wish I could help, but anything we've ever been prescribed has worked for diarrhea,keeping it short term. BTW, I do feed all 4 of my dogs Fromm 4 Star kibble, I can switch between varieties with no stool problems at all.

Edit: My friends Masiff did have loose stools for a long period of time , he is allergic to chicken. :)
 
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soccerbabiesmama

New member
I've never asked her Dr. about the long term effects, because we really thought that she turned a corner with this new food - he seemed pleased on Thursday with her progress. He was actually more concerned about the small tumor that we found on the skin covering her elbow (although, he feels it is benign and will be gone within a couple of months).

The vet feels that she has a food allergy, and wanted to put her on Hills id in order to allow her to heal and then figure out which foods she was allergic to. But, I've heard not great things about Hills, which is a turkey based food and she has reacted to turkey. So far with eliminations, we see that she gets better after we remove turkey, chicken and wheat based dog biscuits. It never dawned on me that it could be the rice. I also had no clue that she could get allergy tested.

The vet never mentioned long term affects of the sucralfate, but, I'll ask him when I call to ask about allergy testing. The homeopathic info is also great. Her kibble does contain probiotics, but I'll add some Fage to her food tonight. We have given her plain kefir, but she isn't a fan. I need to get to the health store and pick up what you've recommended. Perhaps maybe Raven has some sort of IBS too...?? Finding local honey in OK is very difficult, but I'll call the Co-op to see if anyone is producing these days!

Thanks so much for the info and well wishes.
 

Garden_girl

New member
We posted at the same time above :lol: I did edit my post above to add the Mastiff info. My dogs get probiotics/enzymes daily too-like Victoria mentioned above-even my puppy (I don't give them much dairy). There are people with dogs with IBS on NN as well, maybe they can add some info for you, I feel so bad for Raven. :(
 

soccerbabiesmama

New member
IBS never dawned on me either :) I'm researching it like crazy now! And the hayfever could be a possible twist, because our backyard is covered in hay (petting zoo style), because Raven tore up ALL of the dormant Bermuda - and then would track the lovely Oklahoma red dirt through the entire house!!! It's wheat straw... I'll be raking that to the compost this afternoon:)

Thanks again for all of the advice!
 

chumleysma

New member
we get soft light colored stools with mucus.

!
clay colored (light colored) stools should be reported to your vet. It is an indicator of pancreatic insufficiency, a maldigestion disorder, which can be treated. Often those stools are accompanied by fat. Are you sure it's mucus? Anyhow, please tell your vet.
 

YorkvilleNewfie

New member
I don't know about the meds, but her growth slowing down, I think is normal. Mila packed on the pounds very rapidly (at a rate of about 11-12 pounds per month), but at around 7-8 months of age, it really started slowing. As for the diarrhea, I used to think my Mila had a problem because we struggled with diarrhea (with the mucous too) with her for many months.

My girl just has a very touchy GI system and can't have anything very rich. No lamb, no human foods, no turkey or beef. Maybe she has a touchy GI, maybe she has allergies, maybe she has IBS. If I were you and the vet determined that she was clear her of any other possible health issues, I would look at allergy testing and experimenting with different foods.

I wish you luck! Puppy diarrhea issues are not the most fun the thing in the world to go through!
 
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soccerbabiesmama

New member
When I call the vet next week, I'll let him know again about the light colored stools. I know that I've run it passed him in the past, but I'll let him know again. He didn't seem to react to it the last time.


clay colored (light colored) stools should be reported to your vet. It is an indicator of pancreatic insufficiency, a maldigestion disorder, which can be treated. Often those stools are accompanied by fat. Are you sure it's mucus? Anyhow, please tell your vet.
 

jane

New member
I would want to rule out any intestinal issue's. My Roger got hit hard with giardia in 2008. After a long time of chronic diahrrea we found out he has inflammatory bowel disease. He would do good when put on something new, and then go to diahrrea in a couple of weeks. Eventually he was put on Flagyl and Prednisone, only 20mg, to help with the inflammation in his intestines, and I was also advised to put him on a limited ingredient diet. He used to eat raw. I put him on Natural Balance Venison & Sweet Potato. I was told to use a protein source he had never had before. He has done excellent. He is being weaned off the prednisone.
Even if you think it might be food allergies, you might want to put him on a limited ingredient diet of a protein source she has never had before. Rabbit, duck, venison, bison. Get something that has no grains or extra additives.
My Merlin always did horrible on kibble, no matter what I tried. Since I started him on raw, 2 years ago, he has never had a problem.

I hope you find the answer for your girl!
 

NewfieMama

New member
You're doing all the right things, I think. Although you've changed foods a lot (different food over holidays with family, etc.) and fed lots of treats so it will be hard to know exactly what the culprit is. I like the idea of a new protein source (gradual switch to a food and use a probiotic to help the transition - 'holistic transition' is one we've used with success). One of my dogs needs a probiotic, and hypoallergenic food, to stay on track. It took a year and a half to find what worked - don't give up!
 

BoundlessNewfs

New member
I don't see that anyone has suggested this to you, but canned pumpkin is like a miracle food, when your dog has loose stools. It helps firm them up. A bonus is that the dog usually loves it, too.

Our Lucy is quite allergic to a lot of things. We switched her to a food that has no grains, and a single source protein, single source carbohydrate (sweet potato and salmon). After two years on that, she suddenly refused it. We switched her to a sweet potato and chicken (since chicken is one of the few things she isn't allergic to) and she is doing well on that now.
 

victoria1140

Active member
IBS is notoriously tricky to pinpoint in dogs, w had numerous test done on Beau and it was the general gist that he has IBS and this was from the specialists. Not a problem for us because Merlin our GSD cross has always had a sensitive stomach as well so we treat all our dogs as if they have it now.

With Beau this was why we went to the Orijen in the end and we'd tried numerous foods before that.we had tried another grain free food before that but for us the Orijen performed miracles. Also the bonesand his raw meals has helped tremendously

Definetly mention the mucous in his stools to your vets and also your suspicions on his allergies as they may be able to do just a spot check on those.
Hills z/d not my favourite but I know it helped Beau a bit but if you think its poultry thats an issue then not worth the expense of it.
, my allotment holders think I'm nuts as I grow a nettle patch (normally a weed) as it gets steamed into their foods as a supplement .

Pumpkin and sweet potatoes are a good firming agent for dogs with loose stools.

We even stopped using any aerosols, etc and cleaning products in our house and went bak to the vinegar and lemon juice cleaning regime just in case it was something as silly as that. Beau is on hayfever drops now for his eyes and will start piriton if needed but so far he's doing ok.
 

Kay

New member
The vet feels that she has a food allergy, and wanted to put her on Hills id in order to allow her to heal and then figure out which foods she was allergic to. But, I've heard not great things about Hills, which is a turkey based food and she has reacted to turkey. So far with eliminations, we see that she gets better after we remove turkey, chicken and wheat based dog biscuits. It never dawned on me that it could be the rice. I also had no clue that she could get allergy tested.
Our lab has food allergies. He used to have horrible accidents in his crate that were so gross to clean up I can't even tell you. Believe me, I understand about the mucus. He was eating Canidae (this was about 4 years ago) and at our vet's recommendation we switched him to a limited ingredient food (duck and potato). He is eating Royal Canin.

In order to isolate the allergy, our vet recommended trying one addition at a time. So we would feed him Royal Canin only (no treats, unless it was raw potato) for 2 weeks, and then introduce one of the following: chicken, beef, corn, wheat. There may have been more but I've forgotten.

When we tried chicken, he ate baked chicken breast in addition to his limited ingredient food. While he thought that was fantastic, after a week we noticed loose stools again. So now we know that chicken is a trigger.

Back to 2 weeks of limited ingredient food only. Then we tried beef. Beef wasn't the problem. And so on.

I can tell you that we've tried limited ingredient foods from the petstore which appear to be the same thing as what we buy for $$ from the vet, and have not been successful. Keeping our lab on his vet food makes everyone a lot happier. Royal Canin makes all sorts of strange limited ingredient foods. Ours eats duck and potato, but I know there's also a variety that features kangaroo as the protein believe it or not. I think part of the key is using something unusual that is less likely to be a trigger while you figure out the source of the allergy.

Hope that helps and your pup is feeling better soon!
 
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soccerbabiesmama

New member
I don't see that anyone has suggested this to you, but canned pumpkin is like a miracle food, when your dog has loose stools. It helps firm them up. A bonus is that the dog usually loves it, too.

Our Lucy is quite allergic to a lot of things. We switched her to a food that has no grains, and a single source protein, single source carbohydrate (sweet potato and salmon). After two years on that, she suddenly refused it. We switched her to a sweet potato and chicken (since chicken is one of the few things she isn't allergic to) and she is doing well on that now.
So, it's been 24 hours with no sucralfate, and we have added canned pumpkin to each feeding of the Whitefish and potato. So far, firm poop! I know 24 hours is a bit soon for a celebration, but typically, she gets very loose if we stop the sucralfate for 24 hours and she wakes us up all night long. Fingers are crossed!

Thanks so very much for all of the help and information. Newf Net has been an invaluable resource for us so far!
 

Annetteb

New member
Kona had problems with soft stool and diarrhea until we put her on limited ingredients (grain free), we feed Natural Balance LID duck and potato. She also does well on RAW feeding too.
 
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