Osteosarcoma - not Kala but her 2nd best bud, Murphy the Pyr

Elly May

New member
Daddy is Kala's 1st best bud...

Bad news for me/us today. Murphy stopped putting any weight on his back right leg about a month ago - only when standing, no problems walking (yet). I increased his Springtime Joint supplement and per a verbal by the vet, started on an aspirin in the morning and another at nite. Not much improvement, but no changes to his appetite/attitude or anything. Still loves his walks, and with a running jump, clears all three steps at the back porch. But the other day he started holding his leg up completely off the floor and that broke my heart; the aspirins obviously weren't helping. So today was our appt. The vet noticed slight swelling and thought maybe it could be a torn ligament. Took x-rays of both legs, there's some arthritis in the joints but definitely osteosarcoma in his right leg/hock. The vet recommended a cancer specialist and Carprofen/Rimadyl for pain. Said depending on the stage of cancer he's at, amputation would be the best course of action.

After reading a few things on the Internet, I'm not sure, the prognosis doesn't seem good at all. Murphy will be eight years old in April. I really don't know how I'm going to tell my husband when he gets home later. His father passed away just last month after a long, slow fight with emphysema and we're still trying to deal with that.

[ 01-18-2007, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Elly May ]
 

Rhonda

New member
Diane, I wish I could give you some advice, maybe get some more opinons. Hugs to Murphy and you and Barry! Keep us posted and let us know what you find out and decide to do.
 

BoundlessNewfs

New member
Is he absolutely sure? Would a second opinion be of value? I feel so badly for you all right now. Please keep us updated. ((HUGS)) to you, as you sort this out and decide how best to proceed.
 

sarnewfie

New member
oh man, i am so sorry, please hug that boy for me.
the answer will come to you both, your boy will guide you on the right thing to do.
i wouldnt wish this on anyone :(
 

Elly May

New member
Thank you so much. Your words and any help/advice really means a lot to me.

Hubby came home and took the news a lot better than I expected. No question, call the oncologist and we'll take it from there (that will be our second opinion, I suppose). So Murphy's got an 11a appt. tomorrow/Fri 1/19. No food after tonight so I'm hoping a biopsy will be done tomorrow. We'll see what stage of the game he's at and take it from there.
 

Ivoryudx

New member
I'm so sorry to hear this. Osteo is a horrible desease and one I'm sorry to say I've had experience with. It can be confirmed with x-ray, and keep in mind when you go to the Oncologist tomorrow, that you do not have to do all the testing that some Dr.'s want to put them through. A biopsy can be very painful, but can confirm the type of Osteosarcoma. Something I learned the hard way, was to be sure and ask questions, before approving any tests, including a biopsy. Ask 'what having those results will change in the treatment protocol'?

I opted for no amputation of the leg, and others here have done the opposite. It is a personal choice which way you choose to go, and what treatments you take. No choice you make is the wrong choice, you must do whats right for you and your Murphy.

My thoughts and prayers are with you during this time.
 

Elly May

New member
Susan, other than a biopsy, what tests would be necessary? I'm under the assumption that a biopsy is necessary to confirm exactly which specific cancer we're dealing with. The vet today said that based on the x-ray, there was a possibility that there was a muscle tumor but she didn't think that was the case here. There was bone loss already.
Again, any feedback will sincerely be appreciated. I've never dealt with canine cancer before now...
 

saddust

New member
Hi Diane... I walked this path with my first Newf... Its been a few years but I opted for amputation... Would I do it that way again? Likely not... It is diagnosed with x-ray and you'll be able to see the lesion on the x-ray... typically ostesarcoma has the look of a sunburst... and that's how they tell what type it is... They'll likely also x-ray the lungs to see if any metastization (sp?)has occurred... You're down south so are you going to Joliet Animal Hospital? I've heard they're cancer specialist is very good and compassionate...

Sending you huge hugs and I'll keep you all close in my heart... call or write if you need ANYTHING or if I can help...

Karen
 

Elly May

New member
Karen -
Geez, this just doesn't sound good. I have the x-rays in my hands, my vet took a shot of each leg so she could show my the differences. A sunburst, well, I guess I could see that, to me it's more like a lighter mass around the bone. But there are bone pieces missing lower on the hock, so that bothers me. I'm with the VCA hospital circuit, not by choice, but because the vet's office converted after I already liked my vet. She's had/has Pyrs and Newfs. Tomorrow I'm going to Aurora VCA, which I suppose is okay only because it's also our emergency vet office. I've never been there, thankfully, so at least this is and opportunity to be able to figure out where this place is at. But, I really wouldn't mind having someplace closer to go.
 

Blacknewfs

New member
Oh I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm sure you are feeling frightened and overwhelmed right now.

My first Newf had OS...it is a terrible disease. She was 6 yrs old, healthy, had no orthopedic issues so we went with amputation and chemo in a desperate attempt to save her. She did very well as a 3 legger, was up and walking within 12 hours. However, despite aggressive therapy the cancer metastasized to her lungs within 6 months. We were hoping for 1-2 years and were devastated that it came back so quickly. OS is very aggressive, so we knew amputation wasn't going to cure her, but we really hoped it would have extended her life by a few years.

As Susan mentioned the bone biopsy is very painful and actually weakens the bone putting them at risk of a break. A lot can be determined from the x-ray...get a confirmation of the diagnosis first, then discuss your options. X-rays will need to be done to determine if the cancer has already metastasized to the lungs or any other organs. Amputation is not the only treatment...some people opt for chemo, some radiation, some palliative care. It really depends on so many variables. Your oncologist should be able to outline the pros and cons of each treatment protocol.

There was discussion recently on Newf-L about Metacam being administered as pain meds for OS potentially slowing the growth of the tumor, I think. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? Maybe someone saved the link to the article?

My heart goes out to you....I know how devastating such news is. Please let me know if I can help in any way.
 

Elly May

New member
Overwhelmed is putting it lightly. Man, if I could only predict the future for my pup. That's my biggest concern right now, making the right decision so Murphy doesn't suffer unnecessarily. I don't know of any dr. that can give any guarantees, so it's going to be interesting to hear what this specialist says tomorrow. For the fact that this is such an aggressive cancer, I'd feel a thousand times worse if I made Murphy go thru surgery/treatment that lessen his quality of life as opposed to just letting him enjoy the same amount of time left to the best of his ability. I don't know, I just don't want to be swayed by drs. giving me false hope if there isn't any - which is the impression I'm getting from those who've experienced this. Am I getting the wrong idea...? I'm not hearing any success stories out there yet -

[ 01-18-2007, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Elly May ]
 

Erika

New member
sending prayers and hugs to you as you go threw this scary and difficult time......my heart is with you and your LUV
 

Ivoryudx

New member
There are different types of cancers that respond differently to the varied treatments. What makes it hard to understand is that at this point most treatments are not to save their life, but to slow the growth/spread of the cancer/tumor, with the fewest side effects.

In the beginning I opted to do nothing but manage the pain, as they only gave Ivory, 6-8 weeks to live, and Osteo is the most painful Cancer there is. After three months, my Vet and I discussed how well she was doing, and decided to take aggressive action with a chemo drug in hopes to slow the tumor growth. I have no idea what would have happened if we had started the treatment sooner, but it did slow the growth, and overall Ivory was with me almost 10 months from the time of her diagnosis to when I lost her.

In the first 8 1/2 months the only thing I did different, besides the chemo/pain meds, was to start wrapping her leg with 'vet wrap' for support and protection. The last 1 1/2 months I added padding, and the tumor began to weap. I soaked her leg 3 times a day, but she did not let it slow her down at all. If you didn't know she had Cancer, and didn't see her leg, you would never have known there was anything wrong with her. I'm not writing this to scare you, I just want to let you know that they all respond differently, and the care she needed was managed with my regular Vet, without a lot of testing, or major surgeries. He was kind enough to do some research and order in the latest drug treatment, then sell it to me at his cost. It wasn't until the last five days that she showed significant signs of losing the battle.

As mentioned above there has been some discussion on Newf-l about this, and someone posted about either an herb or drug that they are currently having some success with. I believe I still have the post, and will check with the author if they would mind if I post it publicly here.
 

Ivoryudx

New member
I hope this does not overwhelm you with information, so please read at your leisure when your ready. I received permission from Tiina Sepp to post the following, about her experience with trying to control Osteosarcoma with Artemisinin.

This also includes information on its use in humans.

********************

Tiina wrote:

I would not mind you posting it, and a follow-up story as well, especially now when I am having first hand experience using artemisinine for a Great Dane after failed chemotherapy. We used artemisinine ordered from:

http://holleypharma.com/

No prescription needed for artemisinine. Used in combination with COX2 inhibitors (Previcox or Meloxicam)

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/bgi240v1

Shortly, 8 year old Great Dane was diagosed having osteosarcoma when at vet with limping. It appeared that many other pedigree members had same disese even in same location convincing me that this disease has a very strong genetic factor. Her affected hind leg was amputated as she was fit and muscular. She managed as well with 3 legs as with 4. Was walking already after surgery and was running and playing as usual. Had no problems with having her pees and poos on 3 legs. She was put on metronomic chemo therapy, weekly doses, with carboplatin and daily COX2 inhibitors which gave no side effects at all, but for the end of the chemo cycle she became tired so her hind leg started to give up and did not hold on. In retrospect we can tell that she became tired because of metastases into the lung.

When her chemo finished, we switched her over to artemisinine twice a day, and Previcox once a day. Already on next day we saw a fantastic instant effect of artemisinine- dog who was unable to walk started to move and eat again, play and run as she did before her diagnosis! Same effect was reported for other dogs who were on artemisinine, they had fantastic quality of life until the very advanced stage of cancer and some even recovered.

Her follow-up Xray after chemo showed pea sized metastases all over in lungs but on artemisinine dog did not show in any way that she was affected by that and continued her usual lifestyle and her daily forest walks, had a good appetite, was in good cheerful mood palying with other dogs and did not lost any weight. We discovered that it all was due to artemisinine when we run out of it for almost 2 weeks because of Christmas delay in postal delivery. Dog slowed down for the end of first week, her hind leg became too weak and gave up and she started to cough some blood at nights, her eyes turned red and watery and she lost appetite. Luckily artemisinine arrived and again, after having it she was back to her normal self for next day, stopped coughing at nights and enjoyed life again as there was nothing wrong with her.

Artemisinine in combination with Previcox, which additionally acts as a adjuvant boosting up artemisinine effect. It did not stop her cancer but slowed cancer down and enormously improved her quality of life until the very last days. Usually she had 5 days artemisinine and was 2 days off as recommended. Her last weeks she went worse and started to cough on her two days off drug so we started to give her artemisinine continuously.

When her tumours in lung went physicallly so large that they started to cause neurological effects by pressing vestibulatory nerve circuit nerves, she became dizzy, lost coordination and was not able to walk. Also it was difficult for her to drink. On her last night she started to vomit so did not keep her drugs in and was consequently in pain, so she was put to sleep. She enjoyed fantastic quality of life until the very advanced stage of cancer, I have never seen something similar before, and this was really important for her owner.

Artemisinine did not stop her cancer but gave her 3 extra months of normal quality life when every extra day was important for owner. They celebrated Christmas and New Year together and her 9nth birthday.

Tiina

******************

Tiina Sepp wrote:


I think as artemisinine acts as powerful angiogenesis inhibitor, antinflammatory effect is also reported, it is suppressing metastases osteosarcoma is very prone to and which are causing mortality, usually metastases to lung. It would be ideal to use as an adjuvant to basic chemotherapy but from dog osteosarcoma lists there are reports that dogs who even did not had amputation and chemotherapy, artemisinine prolonged their lifespan up to 2 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisinin

Anticancer Res. 2004 Jul-Aug;24(4):2277-80. Related Articles, Links Artemisinin induces apoptosis in human cancer cells.

Singh NP, Lai HC.

Department of Bioengineering, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington 98195-7962, USA. Narendra@u.washington.edu

BACKGROUND: Artemisinin is a chemical compound extracted from the wormwood plant, Artemisia annua L. It has been shown to selectively kill cancer cells in vitro and retard the growth of implanted fibrosarcoma tumors in rats. In the present research, we investigated its mechanism of cytotoxicity to cancer cells. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Molt-4 cells, in complete RPMI-1640 medium, were first incubated with 12 microM of human holotransferrin at 37 degrees C in a humid atmosphere of 5% CO2 for one hour. This enhanced the iron supply to the cells. The cells were then pelleted and transferred to a complete RPMI-1640 containing 200 microM of an analog dihydroartemisinin ‘DHA’ and incubation was started ‘0 h’. In addition, some culture samples were treated with holotransferrin alone and some controls were assayed without neither holotransferrin nor DHA treatment. Cells were counted and DNA diffusion assay was used to evaluate apoptosis and necrosis in each sample at 0 h and at 1, 2, 4 and 8 h of incubation. RESULTS: DHA treatment significantly decreased cell counts and increased the proportion of apoptosis in cancer cells compared to controls ‘chi2=4.5, df=1, p<0.035’. Addition of holotransferrin significantly further decreased cell counts ‘chi2=4.5, df=1, p<0.035’ and increased apoptosis ‘chi2=4.5, df=1, p<0.035’. No necrotic cells were observed. CONCLUSION: This rapid induction of apoptosis in cancer cells after treatment with DHA indicates that artemisinin and its analogs may be inexpensive and effective cancer agents.


http://ctd.mdibl.org/detail.go;jsessionid=5D160BBF6A6753A606204FB070350846?type=ref&db=PUBMED&acc=15878303


Jung M, Tak J, Chung WY, Park KK.
Department of Chemistry, Yonsei University, Seoul 120-749, Republic of Korea. mjung@yonsei.ac.kr

Non acetal-type derivatives at C-12 of artemisinin and their novel dimers including a fullerene conjugate were synthesized and some of them showed potent in vivo antiangiogenic activity on chorioallantoic membrane higher than or comparable to those of fumagillin and thalidomide.

PMID: 16380253 PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

http://www.mwt.net/~drbrewer/canart1.htm
 

ardeagold

New member
I don't know what to say, except I'm so sorry. I know you'll do what's best for Murphy.

Please keep us posted about your decisions and his progress.
 

Elly May

New member
You guys are all the best. It's amazing that I can depend on complete strangers (in most cases here) to come thru and offer their knowledge. It brings me to tears...

Anyhow, we're back from the specialist. I'll get more into detail once I digest everything. I have to work tomorrow, hopefully on Sunday I'll have time to research all that's been offered here - and what the specialist recommends. Short story, we did a needle biopsy today and the most likely diagnosis is osteosarcoma. But, the dr. says that it's not in a classic location - usually it's up in the knee, not the hock like in Murphy's case - other tumors invading into the bone may be a possibility. But the recommended course of action is the same regardless of the tumor type. The needle biopsy was done only to confirm cancer is present and not a fungal issue.

Thank you all again. You have no idea how much your help and sharing your experiences means to me...
 
Top