Only 13 Weeks Old ... At a loss for words ... (NN)

[CaSHMeRe]

(Vet has been notified. In the midst of a referral to a vet that was wonderful with Kaylee before)

Hello my fellow NNers ....

Kaylee started limping pretty bad yesterday. Her right rear hind quarters seems to be the problem area. Since day 1, Kaylee has been a huge bundle of joy. She is very playful, but very calm at the same time. She plays for 15-20 minute spurts, then lays down for a nice nap or just to rest and watch what's going on. Compared to others puppy's energy level, Kaylee is a God Send.

A day or so after we got Kaylee, I noticed a slight limp on a single occassion but it almost seemed like she was shaking her leg out because it fell asleep. Never saw another issue with it until yesterday afternoon.

We came home yesterday (From the animal shelter where we may be getting Kaylee a older brother/sister :allg069 and took her right out to potty. Right from the get go, we noticed something wasn't right. She was really favoring that right rear leg. Again, we thought it may have fallen asleep or she just had a cramp/charlie horse and would walk it off. But the issue didn't go away. It got to the point where she wouldn't put any weight on it at all, then 15 minutes later, would be running around on it looking fine, then limping again. This went on all night yesterday, so after a hour or so of research, we concluded she must just be having growing pains. Well, we wake up this morning, and the issue is still there. She puts very minimal weight on the leg and stumbles/limps. She didn't even want to walk to the door to go potty or walk over to her bowl for breakfast. she just sat that with sad eyes longing to be able to do it.

she doesn't seem to be in pain, but she knows she can't move around well and has chosen to just sit and wait to get picked up or food brought to her. she will eventually get up but it takes lots of coaxing and patience.

So, while we have a call into the vet, are there any members with suggestions on what the diagnosis may be? She is too young to be diagnosed with HD, so I'm kind of leaning towards some type of tendon/ligament issue going on. About 2-3 weeks ago, we started supplementing Fish Oil tabs along with Glucosamine tabs. Also been on cranberry tabs since day 1 (due to her uti) and that's about it.

Thanks for any and all help guys


UPDATE:

Vet concluded she had Pano (Panosteitis) ...

..... huge sigh of relief ..... off the Orijen she goes, and she was doing so well. Nice firm poops and everything.

Looks like because she was so little to begin with, once she had the proper nutrition, her body just started growing rapidly. She put on 5 lbs. in 5 days and we didn't even up her calorie intake. :darn: She is still very slim just VERY lanky ... Her bones seem to be growing much faster then her muscle tissue ...

switching her over to Canidae ALS ...

Any Newfies with this condition ? any tips ?

 

[Murphy]

Not a clue but I am sending positive thoughts for your dear girl... The pro's will likely give you some helpful insight.

 

[Lisa@Caeles Hills]

Hopefully its growing pains. I know my dog went through this for a few months himself on and off. I know he's fine as he was just exrayed Hips and Elbows for OFA and all was rated "Good" and "Normal". Good to go to the vet though. When I did I know I was worried at the time and better to get checked out than not!

 

[Nasus]

She's a giant breed, the playing must be watched.. just as you don't want them bounding up and down stairs till those growth plates close. These dogs are big as pups but they are fragile for a very long time. Monitor her play, no jumping around, no bounding up and down steps, no rough play.. even if she wants it.. try to limit nutty play. This might be nothing, might be a bit of stress or could be something more.. in any case let the vet take a look and after that u keep an eye on her while she plays... she is a puppy and has boundless energy in short spurts, u really have to watch her.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Vet concluded she had Pano (Panosteitis) ...

..... huge sigh of relief ..... off the Orijen she goes, and she was doing so well. Nice firm poops and everything.

Looks like because she was so little to begin with, once she had the proper nutrition, her body just started growing rapidly. She put on 5 lbs. in 5 days and we didn't even up her calorie intake. :darn: She is still very slim just VERY lanky ... Her bones seem to be growing much faster then her muscle tissue ...

switching her over to Canidae ALS ...

Any Newfies with this condition ? any tips ?

p.s. -- Jennifer, Lisa, Nasus ... Thank you all for the kind comments and suggestions

 

[CaSHMeRe]

She's a giant breed, the playing must be watched.. just as you don't want them bounding up and down stairs till those growth plates close. These dogs are big as pups but they are fragile for a very long time. Monitor her play, no jumping around, no bounding up and down steps, no rough play.. even if she wants it.. try to limit nutty play. This might be nothing, might be a bit of stress or could be something more.. in any case let the vet take a look and after that u keep an eye on her while she plays... she is a puppy and has boundless energy in short spurts, u really have to watch her.

we keep an eye on her the entire time ... her play mate (our kitty) just got spayed, so kaylee has had to take it easy ...

she doesn't go up or down stairs ... 1 maybe 2 stairs at the most here or there, or a curb. her life revolves around chew toys ... kitty play ... and sleeping ...

that is why this issue really threw me a curve ball ... she hadn't been rough housing or anything ... simply just got out of her crate and was limping

 

[KatieB]

I'm glad it was just pano and hope that with time she'll be just fine. Other's on here can give you good advice on how to manage her. Just a word of caution regarding adding another dog right now...it's probably not the best time. Giant breed puppies and puppies of any nature take a LOT of time to properly raise and train. I don't think it's entirely fair to your puppy or the new dog you adopt (who would also probably need a lot of time to adjust and work on training and behavior issues). I would enjoy your puppy and once she's a bit older and more settled I'd go add a playmate for her. Not to mention that she is very young and already having growth issues so adding in a bigger playmate is just going to add in more work for you as you will have to monitor them constantly. I think it's really awesome you guys want to rescue a dog and playmate for her, but I don't think now is perhaps the best time to do that. Just think carefully about adding a dog especially one from a shelter as they deserve a forever home and a smooth transition more than most. Keep us updated on your sweet little girl and more pictures PLEASE!!!!

 

[charityd]

You might want to try vitamin C (the ester C kind to minimize stomach upset) Many people believe it is benefical to their joints. Mine take 2000mg a day divided among their meals and will continue to take it for the rest of their lives along with the glucosimine/MSM per the recommendation of our breeders. If you decided to try it, work up to that dosage gradually so her system can get used to it. I would try 250mg per meal at first.

Other than that I would do as others recommend; keep her activites very calm. Katie's advice was excellent about waiting to get another dog. I know a playmate for Kaylee would be so nice, but she really needs quiet time to get past the pano.

I'm sending lots of loving, healing energy to sweet Kaylee.

 

[NessaM]

Pooka had one incidence of limping when he was a pup. We took xrays and the vet diagnosed him with Pano due to spots on the bone. We never saw the limping again after that one episode and consider ourselves lucky in that. It is a self-resolving disease so all you can really do is try and make her comfortable when she has a flare-up - restrict exercise while she's limping.

If the bone becomes very inflamed and she's very uncomfortable during a flare-up your vet may want to put her on an anti-inflammatory. You SHOULD see the hind-end of the disease by the time she's about three years old, if not sooner. Don't be surprised if the next time she limps, it's on a totally different leg.

Charity had a good idea with the Ester C - it's supposed to be beneficial because it's a natural anti-inflammatory - can't hurt to supplement her with it and it might help. Pooka always got it.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Katie, Charity, and Nessa ... Thank you all for the great suggestions.

We will definitely reconsider getting another dog right now !!!

Kaylee is on Glucosamin/MSM right now as we speak. We started her on Ester C about 4 weeks ago, and she seemed to be getting really loose stools. We started her on a very low dose of about 250mg and she didn't seem to do too well. Thinking back though, I believe that was during the time I was giving her, her pills/supplements with cheese which I now know is a no, no for her.

I will start her back on Ester C this afternoon/evening and see how she does.

Keep the suggestions coming guys!

Thanks

 

[charityd]

If you do need an anti-inflammatory, I recommend asking your vet about Duralactin. It is a more natural medication without the potentially dangerous side effects of NSAIDs. It worked great for my 14 year old Husky's arthritis.

 

[blackberry6]

I hope Kaylee is feeling better soon.
She's such an adorable girl:heart:

 

[Bluedog]

I would be careful adding vit. C at this stage, without checking with your vet. If he says it's fine then go for it. I'll have to find the article, but Angus and Emmy's ortho vet, and other vets have told me that Vit. C supplements are contra-indicated for any bone growth issues including Pano, HOD, etc. It could make it worse. Pano is a long bone growth issue, not a joint issue. Although many believe, and it has yet to be proven inconclusively, that vit. is beneficial for joints and joint disease, Pano is not a joint issue, it is a long bone issue. Two entirely different things. dogs produce their own vit. C naturally, and the vit C supplements we use have a different molecular structure than the Vit C that dogs naturally produce. Also Ester C is buffered with Calcuim, that's why it is easier on the stomach, and you definitely do not want to supplement with Calcium on a growing pup. What is good for humans may not always be the best for our dogs. JMO

Hope Kaylee feels better soon!

 

[noblenewf]

Hi Steve,
I agree with the others. Don't get another pup or dog too soon. This time is critical for your giant breed puppy and she needs all the attention she can get right now. Training and careful growth monitoring. My newf, Gabe, was diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 10 months of age. I always knew (from the time he was around 4 months) that he walked funny, with a swing to his bum and was unable to tolerate long periods of playing. He tired very easily and would often lay down to rest. He also "bunny hopped"...which is where they run with their hind legs together and in unison. He also had a clicking noise in his right hip that I could hear periodically. All of those things kind of clued me in to the fact that there was an issue. It is very, very important at this critical growth period with your baby Saint that her activity be monitored. No extensive exercise, some even recommend only allowing them to play on soft earth like grass, sand, dirt, etc. No hard pavement. Also, no staircases, no slippery floors and no overfeeding. I am not an expert, this is just what others including friends on NN, breeders and our vet have recommended. I am glad to hear it is most likely Pano (I mean, not GLAD but you know what I mean...) and not HD at this point. She's still a little young to see the signs yet of hip issues. Although, I will tell you that I saw a difference in Gabe's gait at a very young age, around 4 months. I agree with the others, a giant breed dog is very time consuming during the puppy phase and this critical growth and training period. I would devote all of your time and energy to your pup right now and think of adding another dog/pup at a later date. We got our Golden when Gabe was about 1 1/2 and I can tell you it was very, very difficult as Gabe was still very much a puppy himself. I am not telling you not to do it...just be prepared for a lot more work, energy and time training, etc. Hope your little one is feeling OK! Give her hugs for us!

 

[dee]

You hit the nail right on the head, Nancy! I know a lot of people still supplement with Vit C--but like Nancy said above it is contraindicated in many bone growth related diseases. It is a common idea that since it is a water soluble vitamin that unused compound simply flushes from the body--there are studies that show that may not be all true. And Vit C also plays a role in normal bone health--so best not to tweak it too much.

Puppies do hurt themselves--so a simple injury can also be a possiblity--like pinching her paw or getting her leg/paw/nail caught in the crate maybe? Pano can be definitively diagnosed via radiographes--I have two youngsters right now with radiographic proof of pano--the thickened bone density shows up well on rads. They are both responding well to 50mg of Deramaxx/day with no ill effects along with restricted activity. I also have them on Glyco Flex products. No other supplements for them right now.

Good luck--hope your girl feels better soon! Just be sure to discuss any extra supplementation with your vet AND breeder.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Excellent point about Vit C/Ester C ... I guess at this stage, it would still be a good idea to hold off ....

No anti-inflammatory meds (perscription at least) are needed. Doctor believes she is in the very very early stages, and she doesn't seem to be in pain just yet. He says he normally doesn't see it occur till later on ... 5-6 month range but giant breeds have been known to show signs earlier.

He recommend monitoring her food very very closely, and switching to a lower protein diet. So, we picked up some Canidae ALS (Switching from Orijen) and will let you guys know how that goes. Also, if she does seem to be in pain or discomfort, to give her an aspirin with some food. My vet seems to be very holistic. Only gives perscription pills if mandatory. Took 2 days just to get Clavamox for her UTI ... I guess that's a good thing though.

Jess -- Kaylee bunny hops when she runs as well. Both rear legs/feet in the air at once and also has a huge swing to her walk. I always figured she was trying to show off and attract the boys, but i guess not Only time will tell. Until then, lots of love and quiet time ...

Thanks for everything guys and gals!

 

[CaSHMeRe]

O, and for all of you guys wondering ...

We were actually going to adopt an adult/senior dog. Just to match the personality and behavior of kaylee. Right now, she tries to play and do the exact same things the kitties do ... Kaylee is VERY calm and subdued around calm dogs, however, when there is a frisky kitty around, she is a completely different animal! and i actually think, this is where she has gotten in to trouble, although, she is watched like a hawk 24/7

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

It is good you have her on glucosamine supplements but she should also have chondroitin too. You should be able to get a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement. Ester C is important to give as it helps with the absorption of the gluc/chon. I believe the switch to Canidae will help too. If it is pano, it will go away and may alternate from one leg to another. I hope she feels better.

 

[noblenewf]

Keep us posted on how Kaylee is doing, OK? Hugs to all of you! :icon_knuddel:

 

[CaSHMeRe]

It is good you have her on glucosamine supplements but she should also have chondroitin too. You should be able to get a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement. Ester C is important to give as it helps with the absorption of the gluc/chon. I believe the switch to Canidae will help too. If it is pano, it will go away and may alternate from one leg to another. I hope she feels better.

this is what we have been using ... human grade stuff daddy used to use on himself

I don't see chondroitin on the label, so i'm assuming it doesn't have it. time to order some new stuff ...


Will keep everyone posted with her progess !!! thanks for all the well wishes!