OFA question
- Thread starter kastle
- Start date
NessaM
New member
I do understand why the vet is pushing to get the surgery done sooner, rather than later - when Pooka was diagnosed at 8 months we had a relatively short window in which to decide whether or not we wanted to do a TPO surgery. Although websites will tell you 18 months, I believe our vet said in a giant breed puppy like Pooka, he thought it would be best to perform the surgery prior to 12 months of age. The surgery evidently becomes much more complicated, or perhaps more accurately has a lower rate of success, once the bones in the hips begin to develop arthritic changes - as the dog ages. With that said, she OUGHT to have another 6 months to decide whether or not surgery is the best option for the dog.
When it was suggested to us, (as one of several options), we thought about it, and we REALLY paid attention to his physical symptoms (which were minimal - mostly just a lot of laxity in his hips) and finally decided that we saw no evidence of discomfort. He didn't (and still doesn't) bunny-hop steps, he walks up them, and down them. So we decided that we wouldn't have the TPO done, and that if/when he showed signs of pain in the future we'd address them then. Instead we took a more conservative route; dasuquin supplements, moderate tush and hip muscle-building exercise, (especially non weight bearing exercise, like swimming), and weight management. So far, his dysplasia hasn't been an issue, and the latest radiographs of his hips show no real osteo-arthritic changes in his hips, which was awesome news.
A vet that we saw with him not too long ago gave him a very thorough groping and said, "you're really doing a great job of keeping him muscled in his butt." Hah!
(For the record, not all women who don't work and are treated like princesses are useless as dog owners! :roflmao: )
When it was suggested to us, (as one of several options), we thought about it, and we REALLY paid attention to his physical symptoms (which were minimal - mostly just a lot of laxity in his hips) and finally decided that we saw no evidence of discomfort. He didn't (and still doesn't) bunny-hop steps, he walks up them, and down them. So we decided that we wouldn't have the TPO done, and that if/when he showed signs of pain in the future we'd address them then. Instead we took a more conservative route; dasuquin supplements, moderate tush and hip muscle-building exercise, (especially non weight bearing exercise, like swimming), and weight management. So far, his dysplasia hasn't been an issue, and the latest radiographs of his hips show no real osteo-arthritic changes in his hips, which was awesome news.
A vet that we saw with him not too long ago gave him a very thorough groping and said, "you're really doing a great job of keeping him muscled in his butt." Hah!
(For the record, not all women who don't work and are treated like princesses are useless as dog owners! :roflmao: )
KatieB
New member
For what it's worth our Berner was diagnosed with severe HD at 6 months old and told he needed a TPO on both hips. We got a second opinion by someone recommended from several newf owners at a dog show and that surgeon said she wouldn't touch his hips. Said the xrays didn't look great but he was asymptomatic and he had so much growing to do that she'd just wait and see how he developed. So that's what we did. At 2 years old we had him rexrayed and sent to OFA and he came back OFA Excellent hips. To this day has no issues with his hips and while he does have other ortho problems his hips weren't an issue and I'm horrified to think that we considered surgery for him. So thankful for that second opinion!
Last edited:
Ronnie
kastle
New member
Here is an interesting and funny (in an evil way) twist of events. I stopped by her house on my way home from work yesterday to see if she had the xrays. She didn't have them yet but she is getting them. She asked me if I could look at her wrist because she was playing chace with Lucy and it got a little rough. Well, Lucy caught her alright and shoved her so hard she went flying and hurt her wrist. It looked pretty nasty. I think she has a distal radius fracture which would require surgery with the pins and rod on the outside of her skin. All I could think of was Lucy saying "surgery, yeah I'll give you surgery". On another note, her vet wants her to take Lucy to Tufts to have more xrays and a pennhip eval. Correct me if I am wrong but that just tells me the first set of xrays he took were crap and the tufts vet that looked at them couldn't determine anything.
NessaM
New member
Agree with the crap xrays. BUT a PennHip eval is a totally different sort of evaluation than a standard OFA view. In an OFA xray, the dog's legs are pulled down and an xray is taken of the dog's hips with the dog on its back and its legs pulled down. PennHip takes three different views of the hips, with the dog on its back, but the legs in three different positions.
1. The dog's leg bone balls are pulled out of the socket to judge laxity in the joint. Xray taken. This is referred to as the distraction index.
2. The dog's leg bone balls are pushed INTO the socket to judge correctness of fit between ball and socket. Xray taken. This is referred to as the compression index.
3. The dog's legs are pulled straight down, and a standard OFA xray is taken.
The difference between OFA, and PennHip, is that the PennHip method can reliably return results for a VERY young dog, that will not significantly change as the dog matures. OFA will not judge a dog's hips until the dog is 2 years old - PennHip can tell you if the dog is dysplastic as young as 16 weeks, and although there is a chance of some improvement as the dog ages, generally it's considered pretty reliable.
Pooka was PennHip'd at 8 months of age.
1. The dog's leg bone balls are pulled out of the socket to judge laxity in the joint. Xray taken. This is referred to as the distraction index.
2. The dog's leg bone balls are pushed INTO the socket to judge correctness of fit between ball and socket. Xray taken. This is referred to as the compression index.
3. The dog's legs are pulled straight down, and a standard OFA xray is taken.
The difference between OFA, and PennHip, is that the PennHip method can reliably return results for a VERY young dog, that will not significantly change as the dog matures. OFA will not judge a dog's hips until the dog is 2 years old - PennHip can tell you if the dog is dysplastic as young as 16 weeks, and although there is a chance of some improvement as the dog ages, generally it's considered pretty reliable.
Pooka was PennHip'd at 8 months of age.
NewfieMama
New member
When I was a kid, we had a GSD with hip dysplasia. He had a "guarantee" from the breeder, but in reading the contract and talking with the breeder, what that meant was that the breeder would replace the dog with another. So they'd have to return the dog and he'd (in all likelihood) be put down. Needless to say, we were all attached to the dog by that point and just did the surgery. He lived to be 11 years old after having both hips done at the age of 10 months.
So even if there is a guarantee, it may not pay for the surgery. Does she have insurance?
Now as to the teeth - my Zuzu also had a severe overbite and had all of her lower incisors as well as one lower canine removed. A little orthodontia on the top row to allow her to keep the one lower canine. The breeder had had the baby canines removed, and it was a wait and see to see how the adult teeth came in. Both incisors and one canine interfered with her upper palate, so we had them removed as per the recommendation of a veterinary dentist/oral surgeon at Angell in Boston. (He is wonderful and his family raised Newfs when he was a kid, so let me know if your friend wants his name for any follow up).
Zu went in for oral surgery with a limp from a shoulder/leg injury a few days prior. While she was under we had her Xrayed and an ortho surgeon did an exam. Her hips and elbows were great, but she has OCD in her shoulder and just had arthroscopic surgery for that.
Now, Zuzu came from a reputable breeder and she stands behind her dogs. But breeders are not magicians or seers and all they can do is their best. Both Zu's parents had all their clearances, she was cardio cleared, and the overbite was disclosed (and very visible) when I picked her up.
So she's not "perfect", and right now she's giving me a run for my money as a wound-up teenager who needs to take it easy on her shoulder...but she's also sweet, unflaggingly cheerful, and one of the smartest dogs I've ever met. Her wheels are always turning, you can see it in her eyes. Would the breeder have taken her back for the OCD? Maybe, I dunno. Didn't even check the contract. Because Zuzu is MY dog now, and there are no guarantees in life. Overall, I think I'm lucky to have her, and hope that the rough start for her will lead to a happy, healthy and long life to come.
Sorry this got so long, and hope it's a bit helpful. At very least, I can sing the praises of Angell in Boston, should your friend care to get a second opinion (though Tufts is also fantastic).
newfvo
New member
Just as a matter of point, OFA WILL "judge" hip and/or elbow radiographs on a dog under the age of two. From the OFA website directly:
"The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.
A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months)."
*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.
A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months)."
*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NessaM
New member
From the website.