I have a question for breeders.....

[Pipelineozzy]

The formula I posted is also a formula from Canine Reproduction, A Breeders Guide..which is written by Phyllis A. Holst, DVM. I used it on my first litter...in 1987...and have used it consistently SINCE then...with no problems. I also use yogurt on pups..especially if their mother is on antibiotics as most of them pass in the breast milk, and can deplete digestive enzymes in some pups. (A small dab on the tongue a couple of times a day helps a great deal if they begin to get loose stools when mom is medicated).
I also had a vet talk me into a commercial formula for pups ONCE..and only once. Had the same issue LouAnn had, puppies straining till their little bums almost fell off, unable to poop. I didn't even finish what I had..a day and a half and I went back to homemade formula.
Bitches milk is, of course..the perfect solution. But if we are going to be completely bacteria paranoid...the reality is that unless you are washing and sanitizing her nipples everytime she nurses...those pups are getting exposed to bacteria EVERY TIME they latch on. Mom cleans herself...that icky dirty discharge...licks those babies..eats their poo...licks her breasts...their little faces and bums , and yet those babies thrive...somehow their system is designed to handle it. Comparatively...if you wiped a human breast with a cloth contaminated with all the things that tongue has been through...lol..you'd probably have a very sick baby. We are NOT the same as dogs.

 

[newfvo]

For what it is worth...my last 4 litters (Newfs & Frenchies) all had to be tubed/bottle fed. The last Newf litter was a C-section done under the care of Fran Smith, DVM, PhD Diplomate of Theriogenology. As a Board certified reproduction specialist and maybe even more importantly, actual breeder of large breed dogs, Dr Smith recommended the Pro-Biolac milk replacer by Vet Solutions which contains Colostrum and DHA and is a nutritionally complete replacer not a supplement. I had wonderful success with this product on Juju's litter.

The down side was, as Lou Ann stated, it is expensive and you need to have access to it in advance because you can't run out to the store to pick it up if running low.

 

[Ginny]

I just compared the Goat's Esbilac to Pro -Biolac. The PB's ingredients look far superior. I don't like the BHA preservative though. Also, I've read that bovine colostrum, which PB contains, isn't useful for canines. It sounds good but useless...

I think Salmonella contamination is becoming more and more rampant because of the large scale commercial operations. Seems it would be better to get the eggs from local farmers. Finally, an advantage to living in nowheresville!

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

I think Salmonella contamination is becoming more and more rampant because of the large scale commercial operations. Seems it would be better to get the eggs from local farmers. Finally, an advantage to living in nowheresville!

From my understanding, the salmonella is mostly on the shell. But you don't have to use the egg in the formula if you don't want to.

 

[newfvo]

Ginny wrote "Also, I've read that bovine colostrum, which PB contains, isn't useful for canines. It sounds good but useless..."

I am sure that Dr Smith, PhD and myself would be interested to know where your information comes from and the research done to come to that conculsion before we would make a public statement that the product she recomends is "useless".

I suspect that the subject of puppy supplements is much like that of dog food, everyone has their own opinion, based on either first hand success or failure or on something that they read that someone else wrote. I guess that is why there are so many different products out there in the first place!

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I can clarify that. Bovine colostrum is a very nutrient rich substance. In that respect..it's useful. From an antibody standpoint..it isn't.
The diseases a dog needs immunity from are not ones that are going to be covered by bovine colostrum...there will be rota and corona virus antibodies..but BOVINE rota and corona..not canine etc.
Every species has appropriate antibodies in colostrum for THAT species. So for pups that don't get mothers colostrum..you need a bitch colostrum, or you need to do the blood plasma thing for THAT species.
So, it's some of both when it comes to useful vs not useful. It depends what you are expecting it to do. Nutrition? Yes. Immunity? NO.

 

[newfvo]

Thanks for the insight Cindy!

 

[Ginny]

I was speaking from the immunity standpoint.

Manufacturers put labels on products to make them more appealing. Cholostrum sounds great. We know newborns absolutely need it, but bovine colostrum isn't going to boost a pup's immune system. Don't take offense. I wasn't slamming what your vet recommended, Susan. As a matter of fact, it looks like something I'd use and have already filed the info. on it...

 

[Sun Valley]

Ginny,

And that's exactly why I won't ever whelp a litter without having fresh frozen plasma on hand.

LA