I have a question for breeders.....

[Windancer]

...I brought this up in the puppy thread, but would like specific responses if possible... What results have you gotten from puppies that you have had to bottle feed...totally... I have had very poor skeletal results from those few I have had.....wondered what the experience of others is..

 

[DreamTime Newfs]

I bottle fed a litter from start to finish and have had outstanding health results with them. I do not think there is a coorelation between bottle feeding and orthopedic problems as adults.

 

[Sun Valley]

Julie,

I actually find bottle fed puppies fair a little better at times because they are not gaining weight or growing as fast.

What formula are you using to bottle feed? I use goat's milk but will also make my own formula.

LA

 

[Joan Fisher]

As a specialist in species-specific milk, I would not take a puppy who had received anything other than his own mother's, or another Newf mother's milk. The immune system could not possible be as good, nor are the nutrient levels of goat or cow milk anything like that of canine milk.

 

[Sun Valley]

Your right Joan. But when you have a bitch with no milk you have to feed them something.
I have also had 2 litters at the same time and Mothers will share feeding duties between the 2 litters.
I also give every puppy I whelp fresh frozen plasma to boost their immune system and puppies have thrived on it. Since I started giving it to puppies, I have not lost a single puppy ( knock on wood) and they thrive.

LA

 

[Windancer]

My vet told me that a diet of goats milk would produce rickets...I use the 'just born'.
I have to agree..nothing is better than mothers milk...and that applys to humans.

 

[Sun Valley]

Julie,

I have used goats milk for years and can say I have never had any puppies with rickets.

I know I would NEVER use any of the over the counter puppy replacement formula's.

Here's a link the goats milk I use

http://www.meyenberg.com/


LA

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

I have had very good results with bottle fed pups. I also use goat's milk and never had a pup with rickets. The evaporated Meyenberg goat's milk has added vitamin D.

 

[Ginny]

Lou Ann, why wouldn't you use an OTC formula? Seems to me it would be specifically formulated to meet nutritional needs...obviously not as good as the mom's milk.

Hate to say it Julie, but your vet sounds a bit to the right or left of the bell curve.

 

[KatieB]

I agree. Rickets should not be a primary concern at all in humans or animals in this country at this time. Sounds like your vet is a tad behind on the vitamin content of various milk supplements.

 

[janices]

I kept around Meyenberg goats milk to supplement if needed or I make my own formula using goats milk. I haven't had to bottle feed litter yet. I won't use the over the counter formulas either.

I did have a newf here who was bottle fed way back. No difference from any others have had.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

Lou Ann, why wouldn't you use an OTC formula? Seems to me it would be specifically formulated to meet nutritional needs...obviously not as good as the mom's milk.

Ginny, I would never use the canned formulas either. Esbilac is supposed to not be good. You would think it would be the best though. Goat's milk or a goat's milk formula seems to be the best choice.

 

[Windancer]

well. I will let my vet know...Maybe he meant 'right from the goat' milk...I don't know. It was a brief conversation.

 

[ardeagold]

Julie...remember, Vets aren't always up on nutrition. Heck, they come out of Vet school seriously lacking in this area, and as the science moves forward, they don't keep up. It's hard for them to keep up with every little thing....and nutrition is far down on the "important to know" ladder (probably non-existent), for them.

In this case, you might want to consider the advice of other breeders who have used one method and have had great success with it. Talk to a lot of them and see if you get a consensus.

I've told my Vet things that he knows absolutely nothing about. Then months or years later, he catches up. Especially when it comes to nutrition, and Newf-specific information.

 

[Windancer]

What he said to me specifically was..that he had had clients that fed goats milk that resulted in rickets......I agree with what you are saying.. I'll follow up... I do use a powdered goats mild esbalac mixed with kibble at weaning. It has a very high fat content.

 

[Sun Valley]

Why are you increasing the fat content when feeding puppies, especially at weaning time??

I would stay FAR away from ANY esbilac product!


LA

 

[ardeagold]

Remember Julie, rickets is caused by a lack of vitamin D. The milk that LA linked is fortified with Vit D, A and calcium, so rickets wouldn't be an issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickets

Perhaps straight goats milk WOULD be an issue, so perhaps that's what he was referring to. Milk from goats and cows, in general doesn't have enough Vitamin D....so that's why they fortify cows milk with it for humans.

 

[Windancer]

Thanks Donna....I will ask him next time we talk, but I am sure that was it.

 

[sarnewfie]

I have my own recipee that calls for evaporated vit d enriched milk. I did use the powder formula goats milk esbilac in a pail for 2 litters. use what works for you. Breeders are a good source of information due to personal experiences. In all instances they were started on mommy milk and supplimented with the goat milk or recipee i have/

 

[Ginny]

WHY is an OTC product not desirable? I've heard there was, years ago, a problem with juvenile cataracts that may have been associated with regular Esbilac. Is there current research on this? It just seems to me that a specifically formulated supplement would be better nutritionally, than goat's milk with other stuff added. Fortification with D and calcium scares me a bit because of the association b/t excess calcium and ortho issues. Vit D allows for the absorption of Ca. Thoughts???