I find this disturbing

Pipelineozzy

Pipelineozzy

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The concept of it being in a "carrier state" is really not news...since normals can produce it. I believed, however, that both had to be carriers..would love the new information if it's available though.
 
ardeagold

ardeagold

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cedarvalleynewfoundlands said:
New research into SAS shows that it can also exist in a carrier state, which is really scary. Research also tends to point toward an autosomal dominant mode of inheritance, which means it only takes one parent with a "bad" gene and the puppy can have SAS, even if the other parent does not carry the gene. We had a bitch a while back who produced SAS pups with 2 different Sires. She herself was cleared by Cardiologist as an adult. When she produced the 2nd pup in the 2nd litter, we had an Echo Doppler done on her, which still showed up nothing. She was placed into a pet home with the stipulation that when she died, an autopsy would be performed. She recently died unexpectedly (not related to a heart issue either) and her autopsy was done. Nothing turned up on the gross autopsy, but our Cardiologist had tissue samples sent to UC Davis (I believe it was UC Davis...may be wrong on the Univ) for more indepth study and they found evidence of SAS histologically. I found this fascinating, since all along we thought she probably had SAS either subclinically or in a carrier state, and in fact would not have found it unless our Cardiologist had been specifically looking for it.
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If this is the case, wouldn't it be easier for them to be able to locate that gene, and to design a DNA test for it?

So far everything I've found has said that the disease in Newfs is either autosomal dominant with gene modifiers pattern OR a polygenic pattern. Is there research stating that they've found that it is in fact autosomal dominant?
 
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cedarvalleynewfoundlands

cedarvalleynewfoundlands

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Ginny said:
Please cite this research.
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Hi Ginny,
The carrier state has been thought to exist for a while.
Info on several of the Newf Club sites talk about it.
http://www.northcentralnewf.org/sas.html

As far as citing the research, I dont know what papers it is actually in. Our Cardiologist says research is looking very hard at autosomal dominant traits with modifiers, which I think they've been doing for some time
If it is eventually found to be an autosomal dominant trait, then all you would need is one parent to carry the gene, and the other parents normal gene would only mask it in 1/2 of the puppies.
Huntingtons Disease is passed in humans with the same mode of inheritence, although it may nor have the modifiers characteristic associated with it.
I would think if it eventually is found to definitely be a autosomal dominant mode of inheritence, a genetic test would end up being a possibility.
If its found to be polygenic, I would imagine it would be much more difficult.
I'm definitely not a genetics person, just something I've had to take in school and taken a couple classes for fun....work pays for it since I can pass it off as job related (smile)
 
cedarvalleynewfoundlands

cedarvalleynewfoundlands

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Pipelineozzy said:
The concept of it being in a "carrier state" is really not news...since normals can produce it. I believed, however, that both had to be carriers..would love the new information if it's available though.
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Sorry....got knocked off before I could finish my earlier post...
You are absolutely right.
If SAS is eventually found to exist in a "true" carrier state, then it couldnt be a autosomal dominant mode of inheritence....either they have the gene or they dont, there's no carrier state in dominant inheritence.
If it involves a carrier state, then it would have to be a recessive gene and both parents would need to have it to produce it in a puppy.
In the info listed on http://www.northcentralnewf.org/sas.html, the author sounds like she may be referring to a carrier state as an apparently normal dog, in which no murmur is heard.She doesnt state anything about an Echo, which would show up most affected dogs (although our dogs SAS wasnt picked up by Echo either...wasnt picked up until autopsy)
So....technically I would think that a dog that has SAS that isnt detectable would still have SAS, just in a sub clinical state, which isnt the same thing as a carrier.
On that note I think I will go to bed....its 3AM here and I'm having trouble thinking straight (smile)
 
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CMDRTED

CMDRTED

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Mine have already been checked, either at a previous National, or at a show with a Board Certified Cardio. At the Warwick National, Ethel got a Doppler, as the Cardio thought he heard something funny. Turns out she has a extra piece of valve flap which is not dangerous or anything, just gives her a funny noise with her heartbeat. Made me happy, as it was a concern for my cardio here.

Possibly many people have had it done already. I know some people who don't, why I don't know. One response was "that if I do it, I can't show as much. That's several shows to do it." DOG what an idiot! (BTW They are NOT on this forum). I would want to know if there are going to be problems down the line. I feel very fortunate that mine are all cleared.

I really liked the Cardio that did Ricky. He checked him resting, and then after running him, had him come back and checked the resting a second time. Very diligent.
 
janices

janices

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CMDRTED said:
Mine have already been checked, either at a previous National, or at a show with a Board Certified Cardio. At the Warwick National, Ethel got a Doppler, as the Cardio thought he heard something funny. Turns out she has a extra piece of valve flap which is not dangerous or anything, just gives her a funny noise with her heartbeat. Made me happy, as it was a concern for my cardio here.
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I found out something interesting about the valve flaps. They don't always produce a murmur. So, if you don't echo this is something you possibly won't find. My cardiologist said they are seeing more problems with the valve flaps in the large breeds and they don't know enough about it in large breeds compared to other small breeds they've seen until they've been followed into old age. Depending on age and what it is and how minor can see these reverse which I found interesting info. So, I think it's important to at least clear possible breeding candidates by echo.

I just had my 2 here cleared and they are cleared by echo. Yeah.
 
newfiemomof2

newfiemomof2

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We had 2 of mine checked. Mojo - doppler due to his ingestion of chocolate at age 11 mo and OFA, and Timmy auscultation for OFA We have to travel too far for a good cardiologist here
 
newfiemomof2

newfiemomof2

New member
Thanks, Lou Ann
Last one we went to was for Mojo and was in Herndon. Not a bad Doc but doesn't do OFA. I think I finally found one in Leesburg, but then 1 hr + each way plus the appointment pretty well kills much of the day. But then, what we do for our fur kids... VBG
Keeping up with all the appointments for 6 fur kids, Nationals is certainly convenient for doing 2 of them :)
 
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