How do I break this habit?

[brookside]

I didn't know where to put this question, so I am trying this venue.
My Fitch is now 2 years old. He is a really good dog 99 per cent of the time. However, recently he has taken to trying to nip at anyone leaving my home.
Scenario: I have an enclosed breezeway between my garage and house and my dogs spend their time there for the most part when I am gone. (garage has a dog door to my enclosed back yard). When people come in, Fitch and the three girls surround them and dance with some barking but then settle down. All is well until the people leave. If fitch is in the garage or breezeday, he is sitting looking innocent but when the person puts his/her hand on the door, he bolts up (no growling or anything...kind of like a stealthy shark attack) and tries to bite them on the butt The first time he did it, I discounted it but then I saw the second time and I was busy with my back to the door when he did the third time. This time, although he did not rip the clothing, he got the lady's lower thigh and calf (2 bits). The other two people were a little perturbed but this one, although a friend, is upset. No puncture wounds, but the bruises. I have never had to worry about anything like this before. I want to know what I have done wrong to have caused him to start this action. I am now going to walk people out of my kitchen door, into the breezeway and accompany them outside. I also have a wiffle bat that I could use to bonk him on the head with a firm verbal reprimand. However, this is not newfie behaviour. Is this something I should consider putting Fitch down for? If it is, I have failed him. How can I correct this or would you simply recommend me putting him down?

A little background on Fitch, he has a really bad heart and I am wondering if the excitement of having someone at the house, excites him to the point where there is no oxygen to the brain and he weirds out. I have checked his gums after two of the times and they are white white white. When certain people come over, Fitch IS standoffish but never agressive. He just avoids them and he has never tried to bit any of the people he is standoffish with when they try to leave. I love my boy so much and he is such a gentle soul but this is unacceptable. Another aside, he is one of those dogs that protects the van fiercely. I no longer can take my dogs to the grocery story because if someone comes by, he has his nose out the van window and tries to bite. Also when we go to the place where I walk them in the woods, he gets so excited that he puts his head out the window and tries to bite then too when I walk by to open or close the gate of the enclosure when they run (I know I should have him in a crate but it is just a mile away). What do I do? Like I said, I have never had anything like this before in my 30 years of newfies. None of my present three girls do anything at all like this. It is just Fitch.

Also, should I take my friend's name off his coownership registrationn in case I miss something and he tries to bit someone again. Would she be implicated in case someone sued me????? I was going to have someone babysit him and my Pearl while I went to the Nationals but I am now afraid to have someone here in case they bring someone in and he does it to them. Also I don't know how he will behave in a kennel as he has never been to one so I guess I have to take him to the national....I had not planned on doing that. HELP!

 

[Thule's Mom]

He doesn't sound aggresive to me, and for me, putting him down would not be an option; firstly, try a trainer... get some professional help and advice. If you can't deal with the problem, you might ask Rescue for help.

Best of luck and keep us posted!!

Hugs & licks,

 

[charlieinnj]

It doesn't sound like an aggression issue to me either. It sound to me that there's a need for additional training, too. Has Fitch been taught the down/stay command?

 

[Ivoryudx]

Nope, I'm not going to offer permission either way, to put your boy down or not. That is your decision along with your breeder and Vet.

It Sounds to me like you have two very different things going on, and one is sort of crossing over into the other. First of all, its your responsibility to put him in a position to be successful where he can't get in trouble. So if that means putting him in a crate when other people are near then so be it. No excuses for riding free in the van even for short trips as he is displaying that he is not controled enough for this situation.

As far as his heart goes, only a Cardiologist can tell you if he is displaying major behavior issues due to being uncomfortable from heart issues. If his gums are really white when this occurs then it may be time for a Cardiology exam as he may need new meds or a different dose if he's on anything already.

IMO and please do not take this the wrong way, you need to seriously consider if you have contributed to his behavior by not correcting him due to his illness? No I'm not saying this to be critical of you at all as I do not know you or Fitch. Its just that we all tend to 'baby' the ones that are not healthy and excuse some of their behavior until it gets out of hand. If this is the case, maybe you will be able to see certain things that you can easily change to effect his outbursts without much confrontation. If not, and you have been careful to maintain his behavior training as he has grown up, then I highly recommend a behaviorist to work with the two of you so he learns not to take advantage of certain situations.

Sorry there are no easy answers here, I hope you and Fitch sget ome help. Even if its meds and doggie boot camp for a while.

 

[Angela]

Firstly I would take him to the vet for a checkup, his heart, thyroid panel, bloodwork to see if there is anything physical causing this new behaviour.

If his gums are white like you say then it is possible he isn't getting enough oxygen and is panicing, I have seen people have panic attacks when their oxygen levels are depleted and do all sorts of crazy things in the hospital.

When people come over and are leaving, you can either put him on a leash and so able to correct him before he tries to take out their butt, or if necessary muzzle him, or just put him inside.

But, I would seriously consider this may be a result of his cardiac problems.
JMHO!

 

[ardeagold]

Is this something I should consider putting Fitch down for? If it is, I have failed him. How can I correct this or would you simply recommend me putting him down?

At this point, that would be seriously extreme, IMO. I wouldn't put him down. I'd get a trainer and work with him one on one...and then in group sessions. I'd also get that check up. Is he on meds for his heart? How bad IS it?

The butt nip is something Mira used to do to us to get our attention. Then it became bopping us in the butt.

As far as the butt nipping, I think it's just a matter of controlling that behavior and letting him know it's okay for people to leave the house. Many "people friendly" dogs will let a stranger/burglar IN the house, but won't let them out. Lots of break-ins have ended with the criminal being caught, because dog won't let the person OUT of the house.

I'd put a leash on him before visitors go out the door, and make him sit beside me as they say goodbye. Get him used to people going out that door. If he jumps up as they reach for the knob, have him sit back down and try again. Praise and treat if he sits nicely. If he doesn't, put him back in position, and try try again.

As far as the Van goes... I'd get him some more training before leaving him in a Van again.

He does sound protective. Which isn't always bad...but it needs to be controlled better. It's all in the training and socialization.

Also...just curious. Is he neutered? If not, why not? It's just about that time. Testosterone makes dogs behave more "manly"....and protecting HIS territory may well be what it's all about. The girls and you are his territory...as is the house.

I wouldn't say it's a temperament issues...it's a behavior issue that needs work!

 

[brookside]

Thank you Susan and Donna
I KNOW it is my fault. I have recently been quite depressed due to some untimely occurrences and have become quite lax about disciplining my dogs. Things have just gotten out of hand and this is one of them. I have let Fitch become the troll at the door because when people left, I remained inside and didn't monitor what was going on outside. I have also babied fitch alot because of his heart. I know exactly what his heart condition is (grade V SAS, mitral and bicuspid valve dysplasia and pulmonary artery stenosis...he should have been dead at 6 months according to the vet at the university but he keeps on...he cannot be neutered because that would kill him, his heart is that bad). I will take your advise and not give him that chance to make a mistake. Thank you so much. I didn't think he was aggressive, it was just that I let things get out of control. Thank you.

 

[rainsmom]

Okay, this is DEFINITELY not something that he needs to be put down for! This is a classic example of a dog who is stressed and uncomfortable in a social situation AND is lacking confidence. I would never ever use physical corrections for this, because that would just INCREASE his stress level. It might suppress that particular "symptom," but it would exacerbate the underlying issue that caused it. I expect the next symptom would be a lot worse!

Easiest solution is to remove the social pressure. If he isn't comfortable with visitors, just remove him from the situation.

To make him more comfortable with the situation, make the presence of visitors -- particularly their arrival and departure -- equate to GREAT THINGS FOR DOGS. Lots of treats and great things happen to dogs when visitors arrive and as they're leaving. It's helpful if you have a second person who can, literally, give him treat after treat after treat during arrivals and departures.

Pair that strategy with a good down stay. Again, a down stay is a REINFORCABLE behavior. This is not the time to punish if he breaks the down stay. This is the time to ensure he WANTS to stay there because so many AWESOME things happen then.

 

[brookside]

You know, the thing is, I have people coming in and out of my house daily and for a while, it was alot of people who came in and out daily. (I give massages at my home). He never did that before. I only allowed people who know I have dogs and who will be nice to them. Fitch never minded before. I don't know what changed for him. No one has ever been mean to him.

Recently, he has also taken to attacking (WITHOUT PROVOCATION) my poor lucy girl. She is his age (2 years) and she can just be lying down or walking by and he just nails
her. It starts with a low growl and then she is attacked. I've been present when this happened several times. I correct him and put him in a doggie time out and attend to lucy who is quite shaken by the event. This has happened about 10 times since christmas. I still kind of think it has something to do with his heart and getting blood to the brain...I'm probably wrong.

 

[Erika]

Gandolph was a Butt biter, he and the others now sit and stay when folks come and go....of course he will do anything correctly for a cheerio.

 

[Angela]

Becky,
Why don't you take him in for a checkup like I said in my above post. There might be something going on with him that is medical.
Good luck.

 

[pabusinesswoman]

I don't know if this will help.. you may be on to something there.. similar senario-

My Chow there about 3 times this spring (she too never did this before)... woke up out of a sleep and went to lay into the Newf. I was right there every time. She never hurt her but always pinpointed the Newf. She never tried anything towards any people.

Before she woke up.. each instance her legs actually went into spasms some were pretty bad. Most of her instancese were on damp, rainy days. She is almost 11.. has arthritis pretty bad.. but can still get around fairly well. Her good days still outway the bad significantly.

I called the vet about her especially with the breed.. Chows were used to hunt bear and tiger in China. I was a little worried for my children. I was cringing at the thought.. but was wondering if we needed to put her down for safety. You could definitely see she was in pain when she did it. It was like she blamed the newf for the pain.

She is horrible at taking meds.. but we did try to increase her pain meds.. especially on bad weather days. It seemed to help some. Crossing our fingers... she has not had another episode since.

If he is getting excited by something the other dog is doing... or is getting excited from the company.. he could be getting some pain. Excitement would make the heart work harder. He may think the company/ other dog is the source of the pain?

I am not particurally familiar with dog heart conditions by any means.. but in the stress is increasing the work of the heart.. he may be associating the dog and the visitors as a source of the pain....it would make sense. I would probably check with the heart doc. too.

 

[wrknnwf]

A medical checkup is definitely in order. This is not something I would put a dog down for, but you need to get a good positive reinforcement trainer. It does sound like redirected aggression to me, which could be caused by pain or some other medical issue, but is something that can be fixed with the correct training.

Bonking your dog will NOT fix the problem and could possibly escalate it. He must be given an alternative, incompatible behavior, or supervised and/or confined until the root of this problem can be sorted out and training implemented.

There is also a good book, Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household by Karen London and Patricia McDonnell. It has some very good techniques for this type of behavior. Although it's directed at living with multiple dogs, the advice will help in all your situations, I think. It's a very small paperback so should be inexpensive and a quick read.

 

[R Taft]

After all the medical things have been checked out...................All I can tell you that I have had two newfs who were put in the "aggressive basket"......
Please do not give up...............If you have the time, and it will take time. Start as soon as possible with a good trainer on one to one training. I am not going to say do this or that. It is too difficult on a board. But both My Zacky and Annabelle were in rescue because of aggression. And even one of our vets ( locum whilst my vet was on vacation) recommended to get rid of Annabelle. But with my New friend and dog trainer, Scott, we managed to get her over all her problems..........I am a very active obedience dog trainer now. And I cannot state enough times how training and rules in the house will get you past most things. I really wish you well with this problem. But please give Fitch a chance. I have now become a training addict. we all enjoy it and our dogs have all become a joy to own.............Ronnie