Home treatment?

Miyax

Inactive Member
I noticed Ese licking an area on his haunch yesterday quite a bit. It was matted down this morning so I got a small comb out and gently combed through to get to the skin and see what, if anything, was wrong. He has a small cut/scrape (not quite a 1/2" long) and it fur right around it is a bit sticky. I don't know how he got the cut. Maybe when playing with the other dogs in the park. I keep a close eye on him when playing and he never showed any sign of being nicked or pain. Should I try to find a topical antiseptic and treat this at home? Or should I bring him to the vet? He is jovial and active this morning and seems fine overall, but...he didn't eat much at all. I don't know if this is related.

------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
You can clean the spot at home with peroxide to clean the wound and get rid of any germs present. If you don't and it starts to get infected, he will lick it more, which only makes it more infected. He will eventually will lick the hair away from the area and it will turn into a "hot spot" that will require vet attention. So, if you attend to it now before it becomes a problem, you should be able to stop any infection now. If you see it not getting better in a few days, you should probably call your vet. Hope he feels better.
Lynn
 

Miyax

Inactive Member
Thanks very much for your reply Lynn.


However, on even closer, further inspection after cleaning the area again, I noticed a very small hole. It doesn't look deep at all, but puncture wounds of any kind worry me. So, I called my vet. We are going to have it checked out at 5 this afternoon.

I have no idea how this happened and THAT worries me most!


------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
I don't blame you for bringing him in. It does sound like it could some sort of wound like you mentioned. Keep me posted. He's a beautiful boy. I've seen the pics you've posted. Good luck.
Lynn
 

Miyax

Inactive Member
Welp, we're back. He got an antibiotic shot and she (the vet) shaved the area and put a topical antiseptic of some kind on it. He'll be getting antibiotics twice a day until they run out also.

I know now how he got the wound. Saturday we went to the park. There were some German Shepards (3) there getting out when we were. I know these Shepards. I've seen them fairly often and one of the males (his name is "Blocker" and one of his ears flops over) has growled at Ese before when Ese was on leash and at a distance. This happened when he was 4 months old. I've sort of avoided that gang since. They've been around but have never really bothered with Ese when he plays with the other dogs.

Ese is confident pup. But not aggressive. When the dog walked toward him, he walked toward it with tail wagging. The dog approached while Ese stayed still (tail still wagging). They sniffed each other and suddenly Blocker lunged and hit Ese's side with his nose. Now, yes, Ese yelped a tiny, scared sound and tail-between-legs skirted away. I didn't see Blocker's teeth bared. I didn't see fur missing on Ese but ran my hands over him just incase. He seemed fine. So I thought he just got a scare. I'm convinced now that one of Blocker's teeth managed to hit target.

I feel awful. I had tried to hurry him along to avoid the Shepard. But he loves other dogs and wanted to say "Hi.". We were at the park for another hour and Ese played with his friends and there was still no sign of injury. I brushed him out when we got home. I wasn't looking for a wound because I thought he was fine, but I did brush him thoroughly and yet even then no blood, no anything. Still, it's the only occassion I can think of where Ese could've gotten this wound. I feel so guilty and unworthy of being his guardian.


My exchange with the vet didn't help my confidence any. We finally talked about his CHD diagnosis, the next step. I told her that I'd been researching specialists and that I also wanted to find someone who could do a Pennhip exam. She said, "Why?". I told her that I'd been reading up on CHD and that the Pennhip seemed to provide more acurate, mathmatical and less subjective analysis of the joint condition(s). She immediately, without another word from me, told me to stop reading and let the vet and specialist do their job. I told her that I didn't read so that I could intercede on their care. I read up because I wanted to know more about what Ese and I had to deal with. To educate myself so that I would understand what was what when I did meet the specialist and we talked about the condition and avenues for helping Ese. This became my first lengthy discussion with her. Normally, I simply did exactly what she said. I didn't dispute her this time. And I told her that I wasn't questioning her expertise but that there were somethings I needed to understand myself. So I asked her about all that I'd read on switching large/giant breed puppies to adult maintanence food at 4-6 months of age (If you recall, she had specifically advised me to keep Ese on Iam's Large Breed puppy food for his first 12 months). This is way to long already...thank you anyone who is still reading this for letting me vent...Basically, she told me to go with the specialist she referred me to and to do exactly as she says. Well, frankly, I always had because I'm not a vet, am not smart enough to be a vet, and respect the profession highly. But, I've a right to ask questions don't I? She seemed to take offense. I have a follow up appointment to check Ese's wound.

The vet bill was a total of $168.23. It's a very long story but Tim/Gunslinger had been bringing his cat Steinway to her for care. He's come to the conclusion that her rates are exorbitant and believes we can find a different compassionate, competant veteranarian for Steinway and Ese. After today,(and the $600.00+bill for his neutering and hip x-ray), I tend to agree. I think his follow up will be the last time Ese is going to this vet. It's hard though because he's gone to her since I've had him and he loves going there.

Ugh, why do I feel like I suck?

Thanks again for letting me vent.


------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808

[This message has been edited by Miyax (edited 02-25-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Miyax (edited 02-25-2002).]
 

HPond

Inactive Member
Miyax,
First off, you don't suck, you are a great Mom to Ese, taking all that time to read up on everything and not just taking the vet's advice as 'the word'. I think looking for a different vet is a great idea. Even though she went to vet school, I would take into account what you have read, your gut feelings, and what you logically think is the best thing for Ese. The way I look at it is...you are Ese's Mom and you have his best interest at heart and you are going to do what's best for him. The vet (this one in particular) may not be too personally concerned with his welfare. And that is great that you are reading up on CHD and being knowledgeable about everything concerned with it.
 

Kanela

Inactive Member
Six HUNDRED dollars? Good Lord! Doc Spence only charges $20-$40 bucks for spay/neuter and hip xrays are only about $150-$200. And that's with the x-ray taken and sent off to a hip specialist. I know because I asked in case Nani ever develops hip problems, Heaven forbid. He gives out free toothbrushes and he also gave me some kitty "valium" for free when I mentioned that Menes feels anxiety and growly when I try to groom him (he's a Maine Coon with luxurious fur that needs daily combing).

Show that vet your back, Miyax! Whew...still thinking about that $600 bucks...


Kanela
P.S.) Happy to hear that Ese will soon be feeling better. These things happen when you put different canine personalities together in a public place - some get along, some clash. I'm just glad it wasn't more serious. Give him a big, fat kiss from me and Nani!

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"To err is human.
To forgive, canine."
Newfieland.org
 

misamala00

Inactive Member
Your a good mom to Ese. Don't worry about not noticing what happened, you discovered the vound soon enough. But you may really consider changing your vet - not because of high prices (well this might help too), but because of this sentence - stop reading... This is no way for a good vet to talk. You should do some research on your own and you can ask her questions. Your vet should not feel offended by this, she should be happy that you care enough.

Sure Ese's fine by now

Mirjam & Misha
 

Miyax

Inactive Member
Thank you everyone for your kind words, support and input. I'm still stinging from that visit.
She always seemed to be a very compassionate vet. Her facilities seem to be top-notch. This is why I brought Ese to her. Tim had been taking Steinway to her since last summer. We always did exactly what she said because it made sense and she is the professional. She put Steinway on a diet last summer though. And to this day he still seems to be starving all of the time. He's miserable. He only lives for meal time. He never plays anymore. He won't socialize with us either. So Tim started questioning the diet, alternate means, etc. His senior workup came back with everything normal when Tim first brought Steinway to her. She even said it was the first senior pet workup she'd done in the past 6 months in which everything did come back normal. So he wasn't in bad health before the diet. The thing that really got Tim was when he questioned the need to clean Steinway's teeth every 6 months. He felt very uncomfortable about the strain it might put on an 11 year old cat to be anesthnetized each time. She got defensive then too. I'd never seen her like that because we'd never questioned anything before. I guess I felt I had to tell y'all that so you'd understand why I brought Ese to her in the first place and why we don't think it's the best place for our pets now.

And, Mirjam, I thought the same thing you did when she said, "Stop reading. Don't read anything more on it." (And yes, that is a quote.) It blew my mind. Especially since she gives us literature herself. I guess she only wants us to know what SHE wants us to know. *shrug*

When I told Tim what she told me, he was livid. Oh, and she basically tried to imply that there isn't a Newf out there that doesn't have hip displacia. "There gene pool is very small because they aren't a common dog. And it's fully contaminated with this gene. It'll take a long time to breed it out. Weimaraners don't have this gene." (She has two of this breed.) She went on to say, "Did you watch the dog show a few weeks ago?" I said, "Yes." She said, "I thought, 'Gee, I wonder how bad that Newfs hip displacia is.' And have you seen the commercial for the dog that jumps out of the helicopter?" I nodded, and she smiled a patronizing, sad smile and said, "Yea, I thought, 'Boy, I bet that swimming is great for her hip displacia.'" I was floored! I mean really stunned. I couldn't even say anything back. The whole conversation was really pretty surreal to me.

Well, as you can plainly see this whole thing has me pretty distraught and worked up.
Sorry.

But, thank you all so much for listening and for the support. If you have any other input, another way I could/should be looking at this or approaching it, please don't hesitate to chime in.

Ese is doing fine. I have to go give him his morning dose of antibiotic now. And he loved the hugs I gave him for you guys. Thanks again!

------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808

[This message has been edited by Miyax (edited 02-26-2002).]
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
I'm glad Ese is going to be OK. This actually turned out to be a good learning experience for you about your vet. I would probably look for a new one, too. It sounds like her mind is made up on the subject of hips and newfs. Good luck.
Lynn
 

Charlie

Inactive Member
I feel for you on the vet issue.When I first got my cat (Humane Society adoption) 5 years ago I took her into the local vet clinic for a checkup (as the Humane Society reccommended within 48 hours). While the vet was thorough and competant she was far from friendly. She examined Bella's eyes and declared from the discharge she may have distemper and don't get too attached as she may have to be put down, said same thing 2 minutes later when she drew blood for Feline Leukemia test. I was blown away, since this was the same clinic where my Mom had taken her 2 cats for years and where they actually sent condolence cards when she had them taken in to be put doen (they were 17 and 18 - so had had good innings as they say). I phoned to ask which vet had looked after her cats and she gave me the name. Needless to say this was not the vet I saw.

That was 5 years ago and I still go to the clinic with Bella but always ask for the vet my Mom saw - sometimes this may mean waiting for an extra week or two for annual checkups but it is worth it - Oh and Bella had neither distemper (discharge is normal but more noticable on her as her eyes are ringed with white) or Feline Leukemia.

I'm not sure Miyax, but maybe you can do the same - see if there is another vet at the same clinic who might be more understanding. If not I'm with everyone else - find another vet.

Ese needs you to communicate to the vet for him and if your present vet won't or doesn't listen to you than it is time for a new vet. Also much like if you switch human doctors get a copy of all vet records sent to the new vet so they have his full history.

Good Luck and I hope Ese is feeling better!!

Charlie

[This message has been edited by Charlie (edited 02-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Charlie (edited 02-26-2002).]
 

Miyax

Inactive Member
Caroline: Great suggestion! Unfortunately, she is the one and only vet. This is her practice soley and it's her and her three assistants. Also, the recommendation to ensure all of Ese's records are sent to the new vet is appreciated. I'd planned to do so anyway, but you were very thoughtful and thorough to mention it.

And Lynn, you're so right. It was a valuable, albeit not very pleasant, learning experience. I'm not taking any action until I know I'm thinking clearly, but Tim has decided he is definately finding a new vet for Steinway.

------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808
 

windyhill

Inactive Member
Miyax,
I know I've mentioned in other posts that I'm a nurse, and everyone's probaly rolling their eyes, but hear me out on this one. I work with doctors, who are in so many ways the same as vets, and therefore should be held to a high professional standard. I also work with two nurses who are currently in their last year of vet school, and we have had conversations on this exact issue.

A client-patient and client-vet relationship should be one of trust and open communication. Professionalism by a vet dictates that they not take offense at a client's quest for further knowledge or a second opinion, but rather they encourage it. A good vet/doctor is one who realizes the two of you are partners, and doesn't run his/her practice as a dictatorship, who realizes you have a vested interest in your pet's health. A good vet/doctor should not be afraid of a client who has knowledge. The scariest professional is the one who can't admit what they don't know, but the best is the one who says, "Geez, I've never come across that, but let me do some research and I'll get back to you." A vet doesn't treat just one species (generally)and is thus a generalist, not a specialist. A true professional would recognized a curious and well informed client a valuable asset.

You are thinking clearly, and I would suggest that you follow your gut instinct, it is trying to tell you what your heart already knows. When you go looking for a new vet remember that you are entering into a partnership, and you should feel at ease with the practitioner you chose. If you can't see yourself saying, "Wait, why are we following this course of treatment? I've been doing a lot of reading on this and this is what I think...what do you think?," then that is not the vet for you. A true professional can take criticism constructively.

Boy, that was long, sorry...

Bennett
 

Greg L

New member
Getting into this late (sorry, didn't scroll down enough).

As has been mentioned by others (with windyhill getting a 5.8 from the combined judges score (sorry, still recovering from the olympics)) it is time to look for a new vet (given where you live there should be plenty of choices). Strike one: she over charges. It is a free market and if she has enough of a client base that will pay her rates then more power to her. That doesn't mean though that you need to pay it also. Strike two: She mocks your attempts to understand your dog's inherent breed specific (more or less) problems. Essentially patting you on the head and saying "there, there, you don't need to worry about this, I'll take care of it. You did bring your checkbook didn't you?". Strike three: Tim's cat. She seems to have the same condecending attitude towards all animals and their owners. Yes, the newf is a semi rare breed and she could try to bs her way through your visit because she didn't want to invest (yes it is an investment) her time into researching the breed. However having the same attitude towards a housecat (especially an older one) speaks silent volumes about her feelings towards those who pay her salary.

You have options in the area that you live in (very good ones actually). Look for one and once you find a good one write a letter to the vet that you have left and let her know why you did. If nothing else it may change her attitude towards those that use her service (probably not, but you did what you could to let you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning).

Greg
 

Miyax

Inactive Member
Bennet: Thanks very much for taking the time to respond. "Partnership" - that's exactly the word/relationship I thought I should have with my vet. My mother is an RN. She has always maintained that a good doctor not only will listen and answer questions but will ENCOURAGE these questions and any efforts you make to educate yourself on the matter. She also always made it clear that WE should listen carefully to the doctor as well. A partnership - Thank you for reaffirming that.

Greg: (It's so great to see you posting again!) All valid points as usual, and with OSU virtually next door, you're right, I've found that a lot of the graduates have stuck around. There is no shortage of good vets in this area. The letter to advise her we are leaving her service has already been written. Tim wrote it and was simply waiting for my "okay" to include Ese and I. I gave it yesterday.

I have had some time to think about it. I wanted to be sure, that my final decision was made with a clear head. While everything that has occured has pretty much mapped a route right out of her door, I wanted to be sure I took action based on the facts at hand and not my stinging pride or even my discomfort. I simply just wanted to make the very best decision for Ese's welfare.

Thanks very much again to all who have responded. You're time and input are GREATLY appreciated!



------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
How's Ese doing? Is his wound healing up? How are you doing finding a new vet? It's not easy starting over with someone new when you must have thought you were with a kind and reputable vet, already. But with poor prices and bad service, that's not my idea of a good professional relationship. Maybe the specialist you were considering could recommend someone you would feel more comfortable with. I hope it all works out for you.
Lynn
 

Miyax

Inactive Member
Lynn,

I've had several dog owners refer me to another vet in the area. They seem very pleased with this vet. Even better, he has significant experience with dogs with CHD and with large breed dogs. I'm still looking but I'm seriously considering having Ese visit this vet. I'll also ask the specialist if he can give me a referral for a General Practice Vet. Excellent idea!

Ese's wound still oozes a little from time to time. I've been keeping a close eye on it and I'm trying not to be to panicky. Overall, he's behaving like my darling, jovial boy. We aren't sending the letter to his current vet until after his follow-up appointment, which is not this coming Saturday but the next. If it is still oozing after this weekend then I may bring him in or maybe even bring him to the other vet to whom I've been referred by the other dog owners.

Thanks again for asking after Ese's welfare.


------------------
A tribute to his Newfoundland:
"... beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices"
- Lord Byron, 1808
 
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