Fish and Bread Diet

[TerriW]

Thanks to Pete M, I have transitioned all 3 of my dogs (a Newf, a mutt, and a 5-lb Chihuahua) to a *mostly* all-fish and brown bread diet. I say mostly because sometimes I throw in some egg, or cottage cheese, etc, but rarely. They are doing wonderfully on it. I'm waiting to see if their spring coats come in any differently, i.e., shinier.

I bought a bread machine, and now almost every evening we have slices of hot bread before I feed the rest to the dogs the next day. Thanks, Kristen, for that advice - and the 10 lbs I've gained. :lol:

I know Ben does not groan nearly as much; I think he has lost a bit of weight; and I *know* his - er, output - stools - are much smaller. Obviously not much filler that is being passed out of his body.

With a Newf, that's a good thing!

They also can't WAIT for their salmon and bread meals! Oh sometimes I will feed a can of mackerel or tuna, as they cost less, but mostly salmon. Which is, of course, 4x as expensive as a can of pet food. Naturally!

 

[NewfieMama]

Thanks to Pete M, I have transitioned all 3 of my dogs (a Newf, a mutt, and a 5-lb Chihuahua) to a *mostly* all-fish and brown bread diet. I say mostly because sometimes I throw in some egg, or cottage cheese, etc, but rarely. They are doing wonderfully on it. I'm waiting to see if their spring coats come in any differently, i.e., shinier.

I bought a bread machine, and now almost every evening we have slices of hot bread before I feed the rest to the dogs the next day. Thanks, Kristen, for that advice - and the 10 lbs I've gained. :lol:

I know Ben does not groan nearly as much; I think he has lost a bit of weight; and I *know* his - er, output - stools - are much smaller. Obviously not much filler that is being passed out of his body.

With a Newf, that's a good thing!

They also can't WAIT for their salmon and bread meals! Oh sometimes I will feed a can of mackerel or tuna, as they cost less, but mostly salmon. Which is, of course, 4x as expensive as a can of pet food. Naturally!

This is awesome!

So, because I am sleep-challenged, can you please explain to me exactly how much you feed Ben and what proportions? I'd love to get away from commercially produced kibble for my dogs. The humans in our house eat almost everything prepared from scratch - so why not the dogs too?

Thanks!

 

[Peter Maniate]

Eggs are an excellent addition to the fish and bread diet. Especially good are the omega-3 eggs. The chickens are fed flaxseed to generate the omega-3. While canines cannot get the omega-3 out of flaxseed, it seems that when the flaxseed is processed by a hen, the omega-3 is then available for our Newfs.

50 to 80% of the diet should be from fish or eggs and the eggs are an economical addition and could represent up to half of the animal source as long as it does not cause diarrhea.

Best of all would be "free run" omega-3 eggs. When I can find them, that is what I use to avoid the cruelty of raising the hens in cages.

The eggs can be cooked but it is better to feed them raw. The concern about blocking biotin is a half truth as there are compensating nutrients in the egg.

 

[victoria1140]

also we crush the egg shells to add to their diet

 

[NewfieMama]

I have access to an abundance of local free range eggs so maybe this is possible...

 

[TerriW]

I can't speak to what others may feed, quantity wise, and I'm still experimenting, but Ben seems satisfied with 1.5 pieces of toast in the a.m. plus about a can of salmon. In fact, he bolts it faster than anything I've ever seen him eat. Dinner is 2.5 pieces of toast (I split the half pieces between my little dogs and another can or maybe 3/4 of a can, plus eggs (didn't know raw was ok, so I was scrambling them) or something else. Not every evening, but occasionally.

Now, I have found that he likes a snack later in the evening so a couple of the 'natural' Milkbone biscuits do it for him. Or maybe a piece of peanut butter toast or pumpkin. But mostly it's bread and salmon.

Pete, does that sound about right? Ben's big: 190-ish pounds, very tall and big boned.

 

[NewfieMama]

I can't speak to what others may feed, quantity wise, and I'm still experimenting, but Ben seems satisfied with 1.5 pieces of toast in the a.m. plus about a can of salmon. In fact, he bolts it faster than anything I've ever seen him eat. Dinner is 2.5 pieces of toast (I split the half pieces between my little dogs and another can or maybe 3/4 of a can, plus eggs (didn't know raw was ok, so I was scrambling them) or something else.

How big are your cans? (LOL)

 

[shellyk]

Really glad that you opened this subject again and right before I fed them. I popped a whole wheat english muffin in the toaster, then mixed in sardines, salmon oil, an egg and some green beans. They licked their dishes and then went back and licked them somemore! This seems like a good way to keep the calcium/phosphorus levels down since the Origin large breed puppy kibble we use is on the high side. Now that I know they like it I will get some uber healthy brown bread :icon_bb: to mix it up for a couple of meals a week!

 

[TerriW]

How big are your cans? (LOL)

Oh gosh, a 15-oz can of salmon is about $3.50 and if it's red salmon it's $6-something a can. Mackerel is $2-something. And of course a can of dog food (similar size) is about a dollar or so.

So food for them can be 50-60 cans (per month) times a mix of the above prices, and you can get an idea! Bags of flour and oil for home-made bread don't cost much.


Oh dear....Ben just stuck his schnozz into a glass of wine....gotta go. :run:

 

[TerriW]

....it was, um, a wide-mouthed wine glass, obviously.

 

[Peter Maniate]

I can't speak to what others may feed, quantity wise, and I'm still experimenting, but Ben seems satisfied with 1.5 pieces of toast in the a.m. plus about a can of salmon. In fact, he bolts it faster than anything I've ever seen him eat. Dinner is 2.5 pieces of toast (I split the half pieces between my little dogs and another can or maybe 3/4 of a can, plus eggs (didn't know raw was ok, so I was scrambling them) or something else. Not every evening, but occasionally.

Now, I have found that he likes a snack later in the evening so a couple of the 'natural' Milkbone biscuits do it for him. Or maybe a piece of peanut butter toast or pumpkin. But mostly it's bread and salmon.

Pete, does that sound about right? Ben's big: 190-ish pounds, very tall and big boned.

When you feed high quality ingredients without the filler, you usually feed much less than with kibble in terms of calories as the food is now much more digestible. If Ben isn't losing weight and his coat and skin are good, then you have probably got it right. First sign that Ben is not getting enough nutrition would be skin and coat problems over the rump in the next month to two. Of course this should not be confused with the Spring shed which is around the corner for many of our Newfs.

 

[Peter Maniate]

Oh gosh, a 15-oz can of salmon is about $3.50 and if it's red salmon it's $6-something a can. Mackerel is $2-something. And of course a can of dog food (similar size) is about a dollar or so.

While you can use various types of fish, at least one 7.5 oz (213g) can (or half of the 15 oz size) of sockeye (red) salmon should be included in the daily diet; otherwise supplementation with sockeye salmon oil should be done (usually 6000mg). I use a generic brand of sockeye and can get it here in Ontario for $2.39 a can at National Grocers Cash & Carry.

A few facts about canned dog food:

> They are 75% to 85% water. With canned fish the moisture is only 7% to 35%. (When feeding the canned fish, the liquid should normally be included as the fish is usually cooked in the can and what is cooked out of the flesh goes into the fluid.)

> What appear to be meat chunks in canned dog and cat food are often soy or some other vegetable product that absorbs the moisture and swells up giving the impression of much more meat. Even canned pet foods costing $3.00 to $4.00 a can use such techniques. Also about 90% of the canned pet food in North America is made by one company and that company does not have a good reputation.

> Commercial dog foods are taxable unlike human food products.

 

[NewfieMama]

....it was, um, a wide-mouthed wine glass, obviously.

:!rolling::!rolling::!rolling:

What else with a meal of Alaskan Salmon than a glass of wine?


So the can that you feed Ben is the 15 oz can, correct?

And Peter, you're saying there should be at least one smaller can of Sockeye every day or else a supplement? I've been looking everywhere and the best salmon I seem to find is at Trader Joe's but it's pink and not sockeye. I can get Sockeye at the Health Food Store but it's around $8 for a 4 oz can. (I bet it's really good, but....)

 

[Peter Maniate]

And Peter, you're saying there should be at least one smaller can of Sockeye every day or else a supplement? I've been looking everywhere and the best salmon I seem to find is at Trader Joe's but it's pink and not sockeye. I can get Sockeye at the Health Food Store but it's around $8 for a 4 oz can. (I bet it's really good, but....)

If you can't get sockeye salmon at a reasonable price then I suggest you supplement with sockeye salmon oil. That red colour is astaxanthin, a most amazing antioxident and in keeping with the ancestral diet of the Newfoundland. You can google astaxanthin to see all its amazing benefits but it would be worthwhile just for its ability to help prevent cancer. It is not a cure for cancer so it is important to start with it asap. Basically it helps compensate for all the carcinogens that are now unavoidable in our environment. The only fish that has the astaxanthin is salmon and sockeye has eight times more than any other species of salmon.

Best type of sockeye oil is the cold pressed as heat destroys the omega-3 and other nutrients. Here are some links:

(The first two can be ordered on line)

http://www.vitalchoice.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=122&idcategory=239

http://www.vitalchoice.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=126&idcategory=239


(The next two are available in stores in the USA)

http://www.p-73.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9041

http://www.p-73.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9040

For Canadians but not cold pressed:

http://www.goldseal.ca/products/salmon_oil/pharma_kits.pdf

 

[TerriW]

How about this, Pete? Does it seem to compare? I'm so concerned about missing key ingredients:
http://www.amazon.com/1000-Sockeye-...&keywords=1000+mg+Sockeye+Salmon+Oil+Softgels

 

[jane]

The bread part is very interesting. My guys are fed raw eggs along with their raw diet. They love the eggs raw, but I have to crack the shell or the two of them look at me like..."Um...How do we get inside??"

 

[R Taft]

Peter, Anabelle is severly allergic to Wheat......Are oats and rice OK ???

I often do a cooked oats/rice loaf for the dogs. I was just wondering

 

[Peter Maniate]

How about this, Pete? Does it seem to compare? I'm so concerned about missing key ingredients:
http://www.amazon.com/1000-Sockeye-...&keywords=1000+mg+Sockeye+Salmon+Oil+Softgels

Same product as in my second link in my post above. You just pay more if you order via Amazon rather than directly from Vital Choice.

 

[Peter Maniate]

Peter, Anabelle is severly allergic to Wheat......Are oats and rice OK ???

I often do a cooked oats/rice loaf for the dogs. I was just wondering

Wheat does not have to be in the whole grain bread. Any high quality whole grain except corn and soy will fit the bill. I usually use whole grain bread made from various grains.

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

Elvis has a chicken allergy. I know I've asked about eggs here before and the general consensus was not to try them, but I'd love to get Peter's expert opinion about it.