Cowardly US soldiers abuse crippled dog.

[Newfie in Oz]

I just watched this clip and I thought it was one of the saddest and most disgusting things I'd ever seen, and as as an animal lover-and a human being-it just makes my blood boil that people can be so cruel. These peices of human filth should be ashamed of thenselves. Has anyone else seen this? If so, do you know if any action was taken against these F*****g A******s?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6445f9fdd7

[ 11-04-2007, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Newfie in Oz ]

 

[Nasus]

I am against the War in Iraq..but i sure won't allow anyone to call OUR Soldiers "Human Filth".. You should be ashamed of yourself! We have members on this forum who's family are serving in Iraq.. Our men are working under horrible conditions in Iraq.. and Australia has how many service men in Iraq..something like 1400? HOW DARE YOU!
I don't support what the soldiers did however they did not use the dog for target practice, and btw.. even disguising your cussing will get u in trouble on this forum.

 

[CMDRTED]

I find your use of the word cowardly both offensive and inaccurate. throwing a rock or whatever they did was in fact wrong, and they most likely have been punished for it, as since it was on the internet the Army saw it also. After having served over 30 years, including more than one combat tour, I find your tone rude and you wording of your post insulting. Having been in Austrailia on several occasions, I would like those whom have not to be aware that this is not indicative of the people that live "down under" most of whom I found to be very forthwright and stand up people.

[ 11-04-2007, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: Captnted ]

 

[sarnewfie]

i agree Ted and also, many of these guys are still young and immature, none of them are perfect, and with what they see, i am sure can become twisted.
it is not fair for us to sit back and judge, maybe instead of judging them we should go out and live what they are and see how it affects us.
a good friend is coming home from iraq, he went thru an adjustment period, he is now fine, but i can totally understand how it can affect them, any war can.

 

[Jeannie]

Yes the video is sad. But I agree with every one else. We cannot judge. I imagine the soldiers have to shut out their 'caring hearts' to be able to shoot other men and it carries on to other things in their lives over there. I have a cousin who just got back after being in Iraq for almost 2 years. The difference in him is amazing/sad. Again we cannot judge until we walk in their shoes.

 

[sokkia]

I agree this is a sad and disturbing video. But these soldiers are the ones that risk their lives so that we can sleep soundly at night. I applaud them for that but discourage such insensitive behavior to any animal.

 

[NessaM]

The video has been around for a while. It's four years old. If you do some research you should be able to find the petition online that was started to have the soldiers involved punished, and the responses that the army made to the petition. (I've attached it at the end).

I'm not a supporter of ANY war, much less the one we're currently fighting - and this is one of the reasons why. War breaks people. My friend came home and got divorced from his wife. Other soldiers come home and KILL their wives.
For Example

My friend says when they get home all soldiers are "deprogrammed" (his words) and given sensitivity training to try to prevent such instances.

Then there are the soldiers who kill themselves rather than go back out into the field...
For Example

Here's the army's response to the petitions:

To All Concerned: My
sincere thanks to all who brought to the Army's attention a personal
and unsanctioned video showing three Soldiers behaving in an appalling
and unacceptable manner toward an injured dog in Iraq. I've read many
of your comments on the internet and received letters and e-mails
concerning this tape and am grateful, too, that many of you recognized
the actions of these three Soldiers are not representative of the US
Army. We
continue to carefully examine the video footage. We know from the
uniforms and the unit patches the video was shot in the late 2003 to
late 2004 timeframe. Again, we know the unit, but have yet to identify
the individuals who were present three years ago. We consulted the
appropriate experts, who are making inquiries into the matter, along
with the unit's present-day leadership. We are trying to determine who
is responsible as well as what appropriate actions can and should be
taken. Cruelty
to animals is not in keeping with our values-based organization. I ask
to you understand this is not at all representative of our Soldiers. In
fact, it has been my personal experience in 27 years of service, and in
deploying to difficult and challenging environments such as the Balkans
in the mid-1990's, and both Afghanistan and Iraq, that American
Soldiers - the overwhelming majority of all American Soldiers - are
kind to animals, in particular dogs, because they remind us of home.
On a personal note, there has always been a canine companion in the
Cucolo family. Like the vast majority of my fellow Soldiers, I have
soft spot in my heart for all animals. The
airing of this video has had other effects, too. Part of my duties
includes training critical communication skills to our senior officers
and non-commissioned officers (sergeants) who are headed to key command
positions. I now use this video in that training as a tool to show Army
leaders the far-reaching impact of the negative acts of a misguided
few. The
American Armed Forces remains one the most respected institutions in
the United States today. But all of us in uniform know how perishable
such a position is: the images of a few undisciplined individuals, the
images of heartless acts perpetrated against fellow human beings or
helpless animals, can destroy support for our institution and all that
we stand for. Every day my fellow Soldiers and their teammates conduct
themselves in a manner of which you could be proud. They commit many
acts of personal bravery and great sacrifice - sometimes resulting in
their wounding or death. I ask all those reading this not to assume
those in the video in question are typical of this wonderful group of
men and women. We will continue to pursue this issue and strive to see that this does not happen again. Proudly serving you, Tony CucoloBrigadier General

And guys, I don't think that insulting the Australian troops is going to get anyone anywhere...they've lost sons and brothers the same as the Americans, and for a war that isn't theirs.
Australian Soldier Suicide

Maybe sensitivity training should be mandatory for EVERYONE.

Soldiers should be held to the same standards, if not higher standards, as everyone else. They should not be allowed to pack-rape citizens of the country they are invading, (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/18/soldiers.court/index.html) or kill small children, (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/12/america/iraq.php), or abuse animals. End of story. I'm sure the army does the best it can to prevent instances like this - if not for moral reasons than at least for political ones, because videos like this are terrible PR and can kill home support for the war. Just like the Brigadier General there says.

 

[Bluedog]

Thanks for the links and the follow-up responses from the Army General. After having lived through generations of foreign wars, we should all be aware of the toll being in a combat zone takes on our soldiers...at least I would hope so. Condemning a whole for the actions of a few doesn't serve a productive purpose or valid point of debate.

And guys, I don't think that insulting the Australian troops is going to get anyone anywhere.

Nessa, I didn't read any insults to Australian troops in any of the above posts. Far from it. Since when is pointing out that there are 1400 plus Australian troops in Iraq fighting along side US troops, or commenting that finding those "down under" to be forthwright and stand up people" insults? I don't think we need to be taken to task for something no one here has done up to this point. Perhaps you misunderstood the above comments.

 

[najlaa]

Originally posted by sokkia:
But these soldiers are the ones that risk their lives so that we can sleep soundly at night.

the SAD truth is that because they are THERE that we can't soundly sleep at night...anybody that believes that we are in there country for our own safety needs to wake up...my husband spent 16 months there, and now he takes 5 pills/night so that he can go to sleep ! how can you expect a 18 year old to value the life of a crippled dog when his OWN government doesn't value their lives? and sends them to war for profit.

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

As much as I hate and disagree with this war and as much as I am an animal advocate...I can not put the rights of men and women that serve our country behind the rights of animals. I think this war is so wrong but unless we have "walked" in their shoes we really have no idea of what our service people are going through.
I worry terrible about the men and women who are injured physically and mentally coming home and if we are prepared as a country to treat them and care for them.

 

[angie j]

I don't think serving your country in the army (if that's how you choose to serve it) allows you to disreguard an offencive act and rationalize it. There are plenty of people who have chosen an army career who do not step beyond the bounds of their desire to defend their country.

Perhaps Newfie in Oz wasn't condemning a "soldier" or the army at all.... But rather the individual persons responcible, be they army or civilion; Unfortunately, the title of the Post applies in this particular context. Had it been the kids next door this cruelty would never be defended by anyone here (I suppose).

Angie J

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Angie...I can understand your prospective...this war seems so wrong on all fronts... but cruelty whether to human or animal should not be condoned.

 

[Newfie in Oz]

Where did I ever 'insult' all American troops in Iraq. Frankly I don't know where, exactly , in my post you got that from, but please, do feel free to point it out to me ?

Now, that said, what I DID do was-deservedly-insult this ONE particular group of morons who happened to be US soldiers. So, just in case you didn't get that the first time; I was not insulting all US soldiers, just these particular idiots. Got it this time? My advice to some of you is that perhaps you should try reading things a little more carefully before going off half-cocked and making yourself/ves look foolish and reactionary.

Let me ask this of those of you who disagreed with me; let's say you're walking down the street and you come across a group of men doing this to a dog, a CRIPPLED starving dog no less, what would you're opinion of them be? What would you say to them? Would you find their actions cruel? Morally reprehensible? Cowardly perhaps? Would you make excuses for their actions? I doubt it.

Further, I’ll also guarantee that none of you would have objected to my strong and disgusted reaction had the soldiers in the video been Iraqi or Afghani instead of American. So why then should your opinion of these soldiers be any different just because they’re from the US? If anything, you should be even more mortified by their cruelty and total lack of compassion for that reason, not less (ESPECIALLY if you’ve served), as these people are representatives of your armed forces, your country and your people. In fact, on further searching the Internet there are quite a few posts by ex-soldiers who are just as disgusted and just as critical of what these idiots did as I-and others-have been.

Insofar as claiming that you can’t “judge” people for their actions until you’ve walked in their shoes, well that’s all well and good but doesn’t really work unless you're willing to apply it universally to everyone. For example, would you try and play down or attempt to excuse their behavior if they were, say, a bunch of inner city kids that had grown up in terrible poverty and violence in the toughest ghetto in the US? I can't say for sure, but I have a feeling that not many of you would.

Bottom line is that any way you look at it, abusing a crippled, starving animal (or any animal for that matter) is an act of cowardice-which I’m pretty sure most of you that were so critical of what I said would whole heartedly have agreed with had these people been from anywhere else.

Now let's break it down, were the soldiers in this video PART of the US armed forces? Yes they were. Were the soldiers in this video acting in cowardly manner by abusing a crippled, starving animal and laughing at its pain and misery? Yes they were.
So, keeping these things in mind, could you please explain to me how the title of my post is "inaccurate"?

As for my post being "offensive", well personally I find their actions towards that poor animal more "offensive" then anything I could ever have written.

Ergo, it is my personal opinion that both the title and content of my post to be not only "accurate" but also well deserved and therefore, I stick by what I've said and apologize for nothing.

[ 11-05-2007, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Newfie in Oz ]

 

[Sue M.]

My opinion... Being soldiers does not make it okay to abuse animals. It is not a valid excuse to further injure this animal whether it be physically or mentally, (scaring it away and then laughing about running on two legs.) It is sad that the dog is maimed and it is sad that there are people who can find this amusing.

I applaud those who fight for our country. I respect them. But I do not excuse this behavior. Saying that war does terrible things to people is a sad true fact. It may explain some of the whys... but it most certainly doesn't excuse it. There is NO GOOD EXCUSE to behave this way! Period! I don't care what nationality they are or what job they do!

What I find really sad is that people's humanity and sense of empathy can be so damaged that they can no longer feel compassion for anyone or anything. Should I ever be in this position, I would rather die. That would mean that I no longer cared about anything! Sad... Truly sad!

Edited to say: I really don't think Newfie from Oz meant to critisize all US Service men, just these few men. I think these guys may need some counciling to regain or find their compassion when they get home and under the circumstances, I know they do have to set their normal personal selves aside in order to get through each day. They can cover themselves in gear, bullet proof vests, helmets and such... But the human psyche goes unguarded. There is no way to protect that and the damage done by war really shows up in this prospective.

[ 11-05-2007, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Sue M. ]

 

[darkwingnut]

Newfie in Oz,

I read your posts as being directed at the people not the uniform. If it had been train conductors, I'm that would have been part of your title.

As for the reaction, be advised that it is common on this forum, whenever the armed forces is mentionned. It is a very touchy subject, and with over 3000 members it can be expected that there will be many different views and opinions. It also holds true, that those with the strongest opinions tend to voice them more forcefully and loudly.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that not everyone disagrees with you !

 

[Bluedog]

My advice to some of you is that perhaps you should try reading things a little more carefully

Exactly, which was one point I was trying to make in my previous post. There seems to be a rash of misinterpretation of meaning and tone, either due to skimming over posts, actually not reading them in their entirety, or isolating one sentence or word, not only on this forum, but on many forums and blogs on the internet. Some people are either more or less adept than others when it comes to expressing what they mean with written language. I think we've all experienced the "misinterpreted" or the "misinterpreter" role on occasion. The subject of war, and our soldiers is hotbed of emotion and opinion, and always will be. It's no surprise that this thread followed suit.

Except for my response to Nessa at the end of my post about misreading others posts, I was trying to be careful to keep my comments at the beginning to general observations, not directed toward any particular post or poster. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not. I'm sure a few on this forum would remind me of my "not so successful" attempts from time to time.

 

[sarnewfie]

Nancy, i think you did an awesome job!
i think i am the queen of "not so successful attempts"

 

[Bluedog]

Yep, you've got me and a few others beat by a longshot!

 

[NessaM]

I think Sue M. has encapsulated most neatly a position that everyone here can appreciate and more than likely stand behind.

War does dreadful things to EVERYONE involved - the civilians caught in the middle, the soldiers, and definitely any animals, domesticated or otherwise, that live in an area that is being carpet bombed, etc. I don't support this war. I don't support the politics that are behind us being there. I think war destroys people physically, mentally, emotionally - I think it destroys the soul.

I once asked my friend who returned from Iraq after two terms if he had killed anyone. He said yes without blinking. I asked him if it had been hard, and his response was; "not as hard as watching my friend's head get blown off right next to me. I did my job." There was absolutely no emotion in his voice or his eyes when he said any of this.

But witnessing horrors doesn't excuse IN ANY WAY perpetrating wanton cruelty to those that are defenseless, or blameless, whether they are human children in the wrong place at the wrong time, a young Iraqi woman, or a crippled dog. Linda, to say that you can't help but put the concerns of the human beings in the equation before those of the dog is ignoring a pertinent truth - anyone that can be abusive to a defenseless animal is well on their way to being unnecessarily cruel to human beings as well. Feel badly for the soldiers because they are having their humanity stripped from them, but feel worse for any prisoners of war they may have gotten their hands on after this video was shot.

If it were me, everyone involved would be punished - the soldiers that abused the dog - and everyone who made the decision to send those soldiers there in the first place.

Newf in Oz - I too interpreted your post as a condemnation of these particular soldiers and not all of the allied soldiers. Bluedog Nancy - in retrospect I think you're right - Susan's post wasn't condemning the number of Australian troops as being too few, but condemning newf in oz for what she thought was an insult to all troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, including the number of Australians. My bad - I appreciate you keeping me honest.

 

[sokkia]

the SAD truth is that because they are THERE that we can't soundly sleep at night...anybody that believes that we are in there country for our own safety needs to wake up..

I am sorry for your husband, But last time I checked this is America and everyone is entitled to free speech. Also, I am pretty sure there has not been a draft in quite some time so maybe just maybe when people sign up for the military they need to read their contract a little more carefully. They have signed up to serve this country. But silly me I thought this was a newf forum not a chat room about the government and their capabilities or lack their of.