Beige or gray???

Jksess

New member
So ive seen what i would think was beige advertised as gray and the other way to, so how do you know what is beige or gray......some look so silver like the picture i will attach,

Yes i know neither color is up to breed standards...ect ect.....just like brown use to be......so please no comments on how its not a correct color its a natural color for newfs and i personally love the look of them. Yes i know like all colors they can have fur and health problems... ive read a lot on them.
 

Jksess

New member
Sorry if that comes across rude i dont want it to, i just want this to be more of a discussion on the difference between gray and beige , and i know those colors usually get people fired up about them being below standard, which i will never understand...
 

shellyk

New member
It doesn't come across as rude but I don't think that you will get much play from this forum. I'm not a breeder but just an owner. In my experience here, these gentle giants have health issues and the breeders that contribute to this forum are reputable breeders who do the necessary health verifications and breed to further the Newfoundland dog. Historically the breeders who sell the beiges/grays are not those kinds of breeders. It's hard to think about a dog bred for a color that might not be as healthy as it can be.
 

Jksess

New member
It doesn't come across as rude but I don't think that you will get much play from this forum. I'm not a breeder but just an owner. In my experience here, these gentle giants have health issues and the breeders that contribute to this forum are reputable breeders who do the necessary health verifications and breed to further the Newfoundland dog. Historically the breeders who sell the beiges/grays are not those kinds of breeders. It's hard to think about a dog bred for a color that might not be as healthy as it can be.
Ive read a bunch of articles on them from very reputable genetic people who say that grays and beige can be just as healhy as a black newfie. And that the its a myth that they are all unhealthy. That its because of their "non standard" colors that people blame that on any health issues, now i know some can have more sensitive skin but thats like saying a fair blonde person shouldnt have children because they sunburn easier.... thats just my thought i get that most people on here sre all about the stadard colors but i just asked how if you hsve a litter and you have a surprise gray or beige how do you know what color it is?
 

BlackLightning

New member
You will never ever ever find a good breeder breeding beige Newfs. Ever. If they are breeding a beige Newf, they have no regard for the breed standard and EVERY breeder should have great respect and determination to breed to that standard. If they don't, they are not even worth considering as a breeder. I know you appear to know this, but it also seems from your post that you are interested in the beige's. I say skip them... not worth the risk and I do not mean because of their colour... I mean because that breeder cares so little about the breed standard I would strongly suspect they give little consideration to other far more important aspects of breeding healthy Newfs as well. Very often these are the same breeders that don't think cardiologist clearances are a must-do, or they don't care about waiting until their dogs are two years of age and have all of their clearances... they usually go hand-in-hand. There are a number of excellent breeders breeding grey's though. They are just not as common.

Now, that being said, the difference between grey and beige is in the genes. A grey Newf occurs when both parents carry black and the dilute gene. A beige Newf occurs when both parents carry both brown and the dilute gene. A beige Newf is a double recessive because brown is recessive to black and dilute is recessive to undiluted. Since it is very simple to perform a DNA colour test, the double recessive beiges are very easy to avoid (and should be).

In terms of telling them apart, it should be fairly obvious if it is a grey or beige, but their eye colours are usually different. That photo you posted appears to be of a beige especially since the puppy next to it appears to be brown.
 
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Jksess

New member
You will never ever ever find a good breeder breeding beige Newfs. Ever. If they are breeding a beige Newf, they have no regard for the breed standard and EVERY breeder should have great respect and determination to breed to that standard. If they don't, they are not even worth considering as a breeder. I know you appear to know this, but it also seems from your post that you are interested in the beige's. I say skip them... not worth the risk and I do not mean because of their colour... I mean because that breeder cares so little about the breed standard I would strongly suspect they give little consideration to other far more important aspects of breeding healthy Newfs as well. Very often these are the same breeders that don't think cardiologist clearances are a must-do, or they don't care about waiting until their dogs are two years of age and have all of their clearances... they usually go hand-in-hand. There are a number of excellent breeders breeding grey's though. They are just not as common.

Now, that being said, the difference between grey and beige is in the genes. A grey Newf occurs when both parents carry black and the dilute gene. A beige Newf occurs when both parents carry both brown and the dilute gene. A beige Newf is a double recessive because brown is recessive to black and dilute is recessive to undiluted. Since it is very simple to perform a DNA colour test, the double recessive beiges are very easy to avoid (and should be).

In terms of telling them apart, it should be fairly obvious if it is a grey or beige, but their eye colours are usually different. That photo you posted appears to be of a beige especially since the puppy next to it appears to be brown.
But the puppy next to the brown is a black i cropped it to show the one in question more clearly.
I know you should breed to the standard but isnt it true that brown isnt up to standards in Canada?
Im just saying will one day color not have to do with the standard of the breed??? if everything else is sound or perfect.....temperament, health, build, why does a natural occurring color seems so unacceptable.
And who are some of those good breeders that have grays? I would love one
 

BlackLightning

New member
The breed standard will never change to allow these colours. Not in Canada anyways. There is a very good post I can provide you regarding colour in Canada if you would like me to find it for you. There is a lot of historical significance in Canada surrounding the colours.

The interesting thing that I always struggle with is the fact that folks have such a hard time accepting the standard colours... Newfs are not the only breeds out there with colour disqualifications... it is part of their "type". But I bet fanciers in those breeds also get asked about accepted colours too.

Breeders should select the best quality dogs they can when planning a breeding... that is simply NOT going to include any beige Newfs because these dogs come from people that haven't stepped foot in a show ring and have no concern for breed type. So you will not find a beige Newf that has it all... has type, has health, etc. because those that actually care about such things are not breeding them. I do not group greys and beiges in the same category at all though... there ARE lovely greys out there.

I won't name-drop breeders on here (against the rules), but if you want some names then feel free to PM me. They are out there, but you will need to wait a while likely to get one. :)
 

Jksess

New member
So if a very reputable breeder who had 2 health checked champion dogs that could possibly produce a beige they wouldnt breed them???
 

Jeannie

Super Moderator
But the puppy next to the brown is a black i cropped it to show the one in question more clearly.
If the one puppy is black then the photo is of poor quality. I'd thought the one was gray not black. Can you post another photo that is better quality so we can see the black as a reference point? it is not fair for us to comment on the colors when the photo does not show the true colors of the puppies.

Edited to add: I downloaded the photo and made the puppy's paw black. This made the other puppy's paw and what coat I can see look like a gray landseer. You started a thread on 8/24/16 on gray/landseer. Does this have a connection with that thread? Are you thinking of getting a gray landseer?
 
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Jksess

New member
Ok so in the picture mother is a normal black and white landseer, dad is black, pups are browns, blacks and that odd colored one i think looks silver.

Nope has no reference to previous posts ☺ i just see what i think is beige labeled gray and grays labeled beige so i was just wondering how you tell the difference. If therpe was a foolproof way to know grey or beige
 

victoria1140

Active member
Most gray Newfs l have met look like they've had talc thrown over them.beiges are more of a diluted brown.

I wouldn't pay top dollar for them but if one needed a home l would happily take one of either colour on .

As l don't show or breed it wouldn't be an issue for me but it would have very good insurance on it to be on the safe side.

It depends on why you are interested in a particular colour.if you want to show or breed ld say no.if it's a pet and is priced accordingly then ok
 

Sound Bay Newfs

New member
So if a very reputable breeder who had 2 health checked champion dogs that could possibly produce a beige they wouldnt breed them???
Show breeders-color test their dogs and know their exact pedigree so would not have show dogs they intend to breed producing colors like grey and beige. Generally un reputable breeders produce those colors. Not sure what your dilemma is. Grey is grey and beige is beige (sometimes called silver). These are all marketing terms to make the pup sound rare so the an charge more for a "designer" pup. Generally those breeders do not health check either. Reputable breeders can get some nice grey in litters, but because of previous pedigree research and color testing the parents, they know what to expect. But they are not purposely breeding that color.
 
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BluwaterNewfs

New member
Yes, reputable breeders DNA test for what color genes their dogs carry and therefore should know what to expect in a litter. Acceptable colors in the US according to NCA standard are: solid Black, solid Grey, solid Brown and Landseer which is White with Black marking. There a few breeders who will breed to get brown, several breed for Landseer. While don't know of anyone breeding for grey specifically, there are several who breed knowing they may get it. My girls carry the gene for grey, and I had a litter greys in it, and 1 was shown till she became ill with Laryngeal Paralysis.
 

BLCOLE

New member
You will never ever ever find a good breeder breeding beige Newfs. Ever. If they are breeding a beige Newf, they have no regard for the breed standard and EVERY breeder should have great respect and determination to breed to that standard. If they don't, they are not even worth considering as a breeder.
THIS! Congrats, this hits the nail on the head, IMHO. Couldn't have said it better myself.
There is a kennel I am familiar with that intentionally breeds brown and white Newfoundlands, which is not breed standard. I have to say that I have seen a few of their dogs and the color problem is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to deviating from the breed standard. The dogs would be bad examples of the breed standard even if they were an "approved" color combination.

Why would anybody want a dog that is intentionally bred this way?
 
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