Advice needed.

[MC Sullivan]

Since we got Monty last September I've tried to take things slow and not stress him out since he can be reactive. Since he dislikes being groomed and having his nails trimmed I decided it was probably safer and less traumatic to do these things incrementally at home. I thought I was making progress and introduced clippers today (this is after I cut my son's hair with them during which Monty spent the entire time sleeping at his feet). Monty did not like the clippers so much so he got up and went over and lifted his leg on one of my potted plants. Mind you we are inside the house when he did this so I corrected him with a firm "No Monty" and promptly put him outside. So clearly he hates the clippers. At this point Monty is better with strangers at home but still reactive in new situations. Should I give up the incremental approach and just wrestle it out with him or take him to the groomers? What say you NN?

Also is this sort of punitive peeing something male dog do or is this just one more thing that makes Monty special? (Until now I've only had females.) ;-)

 

[victoria1140]

Keep persevering, it takes time for reactive dogs .personally l would continue with baby steps so as not to overwhelm him

Also the peeing bit makes me laugh as l can remember Beau being miffed at a show and he peed on a lady's coat.l was so mortified though the lady found it funny.
So it can be there way of trying to get back at you as they know you will react

 

[Ksullivan]

My male is not neutered, and he has never peed in the house or on anything since being trained. I must say however, he is the best dog we have ever had.

 

[Angela]

2 of my males are intact and have never lifted a leg in the house. Even the dominant PFH, aka Owain, almost 2 yr now.

 

[shellyk]

I think the incremental steps on grooming only work if you are very calm. I'm not and I found out that while my Newf and Lab won't let me trim their nails - they will let any stranger at the groomer or self groom place do it.

 

[Murphy]

Mary Catherine.. He wouldn't let me near his feet. I was scared to death to take him to my groomer but ultimately did and he had the works... Much to my surprise, even though surrounded by strangers and little dogs.. they had no problem with him. Maybe it was cause they were confident. But If you are nervous to take him to a groomer, what about one of those soft muzzles and then you wouldn't have to worry about him biting anyone there??? Not that I think he would. ......And no.. I don't get the peeing incident.
Sorry he is being a bad boy....

 

[BLCOLE]

I have a spayed female that punitive pees as well. Although she does it when she doesn't think that I'm paying enough attention to her.

Oh yes, and she doesn't like strangers staying over in the guest bedroom. She's been known to go into the guest bedroom and take a DUMP under such circumstances.

 

[mcme]

When I was in college, I brought a boyfriend home to visit for the first time. Our little terrier mix, who had lots of attitude, went to the guest room and peed on the pillow. It didn't work, though. The guy wasn't easily scared off, and we've been married 34 years. That dog never did like him, though!

 

[Brandie&Maggie]

I don't have much solid advice, but I will say that Maggie picks up any nerves I have. If there is another dog or a person I'm clearly uncomfortable with, she picks up on it and will be protective and sometimes even a little reactive. I will never take her to the dog park myself. However, we have gone to dozens of newf club events (water training, etc) where I know the other dogs are trained and I'm comfortable and she's great. She's awesome at daycare too.

If you were worried about it and projecting some nerves that it would not go well, perhaps Monty picked up on that. If you have a trusted groomer, perhaps it would be worth a try, especially since Jen had success with that approach.

 

[dreamchaser456]

I have a rescue boy we got in November. He was very reactive when he came to us. I have been slowly working on getting him used to the clippers and dremel as my groomer was out on maternity leave until recently. Because he was so reactive to dogs (turns out he really was fine with people) I was not sure about grooming in the shop. Monday I took him to "meet" our groomer and get a quick nail clip since I hate cutting black nails. He did great! Kota loves our groomer Crystal, got up on the table and was more interested in giving slurpy kisses to the little dog on the next table than reacting to anything. He goes next week for a full groom (his first since he came home). Y
You might try a meet and greet with your groomer (and maybe a nail clip or something) to see how it goes. I did have Kota's muzzle in my back pocket just in case but never needed it. He WILL pick up on your emotions so if you are unsure about things (or his reaction) it can make them worse. If you don't yet feel like a groomer is a good idea, keep working slowly. Kota will just now let the clippers "touch" him (back of the clippers while running) and we work on this nearly every day for almost 2 months now! It isn't just the sound of them running, those things vibrate!! lol

 

[MC Sullivan]

I don't have a groomer. I normally take care of the dogs myself. I'm pretty good at cutting nails, trimming, etc...if I'm not wrestling with the dog. Grooming Monty does not make me nervous since he has never been aggressive towards me or my immediate family. Stubborn yes but not aggressive. I was more concerned that he would act out at the groomers.

Sounds like I should go back to slow and steady. Then when I re-introduce the clippers to do so outside. Luckily the plant he peed on had a large coaster under it so Monty's efforts were mostly contained. Plus I've been buying Nature's Miracle by the gallon for years.

@Jen growing up with 3 brothers and having raised 2 sons, a little pee, while a nuisance, does not faze me much. I don't see Monty as being "bad", he is just trying to express his displeasure, which I clearly was ignoring. Monty has a long way to go before he reaches the height of the Mistress of Madness's antics. He was very contrite when he came back inside. He came up behind me (I was busy trying to wipe the door down as they ran by), gently put his nose into my palm and softly wagged his tail. He likes to know where I am and to let me know where he is.

 

[Murphy]

I don't have a groomer. I normally take care of the dogs myself. I'm pretty good at cutting nails, trimming, etc...if I'm not wrestling with the dog. Grooming Monty does not make me nervous since he has never been aggressive towards me or my immediate family. Stubborn yes but not aggressive. I was more concerned that he would act out at the groomers.

Sounds like I should go back to slow and steady. Then when I re-introduce the clippers to do so outside. Luckily the plant he peed on had a large coaster under it so Monty's efforts were mostly contained. Plus I've been buying Nature's Miracle by the gallon for years.

@Jen growing up with 3 brothers and having raised 2 sons, a little pee, while a nuisance, does not faze me much. I don't see Monty as being "bad", he is just trying to express his displeasure, which I clearly was ignoring. Monty has a long way to go before he reaches the height of the Mistress of Madness's antics. He was very contrite when he came back inside. He came up behind me (I was busy trying to wipe the door down as they ran by), gently put his nose into my palm and softly wagged his tail. He likes to know where I am and to let me know where he is.

Yes.. I know he is not a bad boy. he is full of love and as you know by now.. just wants to be with his family... Please ignore my anxiety because I am so overwhelmed by my own life... I know that Monty has never been a bad boy.. And I know he is exactly where he belongs.. And yes... the red headed Mistress. is in a class of her own.. while still being simply adorable.. But he did do very well at the groomers.... :hug:

 

[R Taft]

OK the first thing is.........peeing is also a sign of stress. So that is what this could be. i do not ever believe that dogs go out to do something to annoy us. That is the human way of thinking. Sniffing, lick lipping, yawning, looking away, peeing are all stress signs. it is why it is so sad that some dogs do this in Obedience Trials (and pooping can be too) and and get disqualified and make the owner even more annoyed=more stress...it is amazing when you sit at the side of a Trial/show or grooming session and see all the stress signs.

I would stick with slow. i click and treat.....has worked with all my rescues and it has taken a lot of time. i am working on harry now, our new one, because he hated the blower, feet done and grooming too. he still stresses, but now at least he will tolerate it, even though he is showing stress signs, but the want for food over rided it.....Kikkopup on Youtube has some amazing videos on how to go about it. Much better than me going through it. All my client now watch Kikkopup.
The one thing I have done with clippers on both horses and dogs that worry is taken off the blades and given a massage, initially off and when they begin to love it, with it just running...you end up with having dogs that love the clippers, even to the point that those that are not being groomed need to be put away..this again is slow with a ot of click and treat

 

[DAWNMERIE]

My thoughts and my suggestion, is to stick to it, slow and steady and start a daily routine. Since Monty is an aging dog, maybe start doing certain core exercises with him, that way it kind of benefits him in a two fold.

Make him stand and you stand behind him (the more comfortable you get you may just stand on the sides of him)....raise one rear leg at a time (#1-it makes him concentrate on balance-which is the core exercise and #2-it gets him used to you touching his feet, #3- he's not really looking) while you have the leg lifted massage the foot and maybe each toe, one at a time. Lift each leg one at a time, holding them up just like shoeing a horse, and stretch them back and fourth also, makes them concentrate a little more. Do that ever day, a few times a day, and then depending upon how things progress and how you feel either introduce the clippers and run them on each foot like you are clipping or don't introduce and just do one foot/toe each time you practice the exercise and proceed to do the rest of the exercise (then next day do another foot or nail)....see which one he takes better to and and do it a few times a day. Sometimes they just don't like to know....nervous nellies that they can be! If they are really nervous still, before you start place that most favorite treat (I use a Polly-O string cheese) right in front on them at heads level (on the table) so they only pay attention to what's ahead of them and not what's behind. Hope the suggestion might help some with the muppet boy...make sure and pass a kiss and praises from me when the conquers his fears! Just love that boy!

Oh, and I agree peeing like that, is a sign of nervousness, especially if he's never done anything like that before! Best of luck and keep up with the good work!!! I'll sit on the sidelines cheering you on! YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

 

[jane]

Shannon and Modoc hate having their feet touched for trimming. I just bought the Oster Nail Grinder and I'm a dope for not getting it years ago when I got Shannon. Modoc fell asleep while I did his and Shannon took some coaxing to stay calm. I also have a grooming table and arm.
My darling Merlin peed out of displeasure once when he was about 1. He didn't like that I was going to workout and decided to run around the house a few times, and make sure he stopped on top of my mat and peed....Momma not happy! He saw I wasn't pleased...LOL

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

I also use a nail grinder on Elvis. He'll let me do one or two feet before it's clear he's had enough. I've also learned it's easiest to groom his back legs and belly inside while he's sleeping. He'll snore right through it if he's comfortable, but he won't let me near his stomach outside when I'm grooming the rest of him.

*I guess I should mention that I groom for health/convenience, not show!

 

[nsmarlis]

Good advice you've gotten. My dogs sleep through having their nails done but I'm have a lot of anxiety about doing it. Never thought about peeing as a sign of stress Ronnie. Volare would do it whenever I was annoyed with him for counter surfing. Poor guy. So he was stressed instead of being p***ed off with me. I'll have to apologize when I see him at the Rainbow Bridge.

 

[NinaA]

Lots of good advice, and some that I will use. Moonlight does not like to be groomed, nails clipped, etc by me. She has decided the Mars Coat King is okay. Also, last summer our vet suggested we trim her down to about an inch while we worked on UTI issues and I trimmed with scissors first - they are accepted on the feet. Then we worked our way up to clippers on the back, stomach, sides, etc. Never was comfortable with clippers around her head. However, I have seen them at the vet's office do anything they want to her - things a lot scarier that clippers - and she is totally great. So, you might search out a good groomer.

 

[MC Sullivan]

All great advice! Thanks everyone!

Since we adopted Monty I've made sure to incorporate handling his feet and massaging between his toes when I am petting him, with which he has gotten much much better. I also have started to handle his feet and gently stretch his legs when I am toweling him down from swimming or coming in from the rain. All of which he accepts and seems to enjoy. However bring out the nail clippers, try trimming his feet or brushing his hind end and all bets are off.

I also think he definitely needs to be groomed away from my other dogs because their energy level(Penny will just about sit on your head trying to get brushed) only heightens his anxiety.

NN is a fantastic resource. I can't thank everyone enough.