Why grain free?

Whybu1

New member
Some good stuff in there but dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats. Cats are incapable of digesting non-meat items. Dogs are faculative carnivores and can and do eat fruit, grass and other items. From National Geographic:

Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.

Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores. A hypercarnivore is an organism that depends on animals for at least 70 percent of its diet. Plants, fungi, and other nutrients make up the rest of their food. All obligate carnivores, including cats, are hypercarnivores. Sea stars, which prey mostly on clams and oysters, are also hypercarnivores.

Mesocarnivores depend on animal meat for at least 50 percent of their diet. Foxes are mesocarnivores. They also eat fruits, vegetables, and fungi.

Hypocarnivores depend on animal meat for less than 30 percent of their diet. Most species of bears are hypocarnivores. They eat meat, fish, berries, nuts, and even the roots and bulbs of plants. Hypocarnivores such as bears are also considered omnivores.
 
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Peter Maniate

New member
Some good stuff in there but dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats. Cats are incapable of digesting non-meat items. Dogs are faculative carnivores and can and do eat fruit, grass and other items.
I never intended to imply that dogs should eat only meat. The purpose of this post was to warn against grains in modern day commercial dog food.

Canines, wild and domestic, have a scavenger digestion system which makes them incredibly versatile. If necessitated, a dog could "survive" solely on vegetation; of course he would not "thrive".
 

victoria1140

Active member
thanks Peter I also avoid ethoxyquin, BHA< BHT and STTP chemicals used as preservatives in foods. I am also wary about rosemary as a preservative at times as there have been studies due to ill health concerning this.
 

Whybu1

New member
I never intended to imply that dogs should eat only meat. The purpose of this post was to warn against grains in modern day commercial dog food.

Canines, wild and domestic, have a scavenger digestion system which makes them incredibly versatile. If necessitated, a dog could "survive" solely on vegetation; of course he would not "thrive".

Grain in and of itself is not an issue. The article was specific to GMO grain designed to resist pesticides and heavily dosed with it. Those are bad but broad statement of grain is bad is not totally correct.
 

Ginny

New member
Good grief, yet another thing to worry about. Add to this, the large amounts of arsenic found in rice these days. Tons of highly rated, non-grain free kibble have white and brown rice in it. I'm joining the Amish...
 

Peter Maniate

New member
Grain in and of itself is not an issue. The article was specific to GMO grain designed to resist pesticides and heavily dosed with it. Those are bad but broad statement of grain is bad is not totally correct.
In theory, grains other than corn and soy could be used in moderation as part of the vegetation portion of a dog's diet. However in a dog food there is no way to tell if the grain is from GM seed directly or indirectly (wind blows the seed to adjacent fields). To be sure you have to avoid commercial dog feed with grain content.

Kibble containing grain averages 60% grain which is way too high. In addition, the grain is usually the cheapest they can procur. Why else would they go to China when the US and Canada have no shortage of grains?
 

R Taft

Active member
We are lucky here in Australia in both horse feed and Dogs food corn is used minimally...Corn and soy have just never been as popular here to use. Mainstay here are oats and rice .........I agree with the corn and soy problems too
 

Sun Valley

New member
I find it interesting that YEARS ago there were no grain free foods that I fed my dogs and they did just fine.

Lou Ann
 

Peter Maniate

New member
I find it interesting that YEARS ago there were no grain free foods that I fed my dogs and they did just fine.

Lou Ann
I use the Newfoundland Club of America's Oldest Living Newfoundland award as a bellweather. In 2002 the second and third oldest Newfs were 13 year olds. Nowadays the NCA won't even accept a nomination for the award unless the Newf is at least 14 years old. Biggest change in the past decade is the quality of the feed.
 

MamaSu

New member
Some great posts here, and good food for thought, no pun intended. I just go with the old common sense. Dogs in the wild eat what they can, which would be meat, and fruits and vegetables to a point. I don't picture them going thru a field of wheat or many grains at all for that matter, and grazing. I don't imagine it would kill them but I sure wouldn't base their diet on it. My dog's food is grain free but has a nice assortment of fruits n veggies. They would be so pouty if they didn't get a share of fresh fruit when I'm eating it! Lol
 
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Peter Maniate

New member
Does grain free reduce the chance of bloat?
There has been speculation that grains can ferment in the stomach and provide the gas that causes bloat but this has pretty well been ruled out in dogs (but not in other animals like pigs) as analysis of the gas in canines who have succumbed to bloat show that it is the same as the air we breath.

Since the cause of bloat is still unknown we can only speculate on the answer to this question. Kibble in general seems to be implicated in this disease, so presumably the less kibble fed the better.

With high quality grain-free kibbles like Orijen, Acana and EVO, the dog needs a lot less kibble, up to 50% less.

While reducing the quantity of kibble fed probably helps in the fight against bloat, if manufacturers really cared they would make the kibble much larger for large and giant breed dogs. This would force the canine to chew the food rather than swallow it whole as many do - some of my Newfs seem to actually inhale the stuff and this is obviously not a healthy practice. I have searched for a large size high quality kibble that would have to be chewed but no luck so far.

To me the ideal dry dog food would be the size and shape of a large Milk-Bone. I understand that this food may have initially been created as a whole food but in recent decades is just considered a supplemental food primarily for oral health. If a fish based grain-free large biscuit type whole food is ever invented, I'll be the first in line.
 
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