this makes me angry

[2ndchance]

as the owner of therapy dogs and an evaluator of therapy dogs it blows my mind when people try to pass their therapy dogs off as assistance dogs. I saw this last year, on grounds where no dogs are allowed unless they had special permission or are needed for assistance. I saw two people walking what appeared to be under a year old golden retrievers on these grounds with TDI tags hanging from their collars. Had I not been working on the grounds at the time I might have confronted them on it.

If you need to explain to anyone what the difference is, send them this link.

http://2ndchance-caninecapers.blogspot.com/2011/03/tags-what-gives.html

 

[blstarke]

I agree. next time; just ask them if they are service dogs.

 

[heather pluciennik]

Yep came across a dog with just a bandanna last year in a store that only allowed service dogs.
Needless to say they got what they needed and got out before the store started looking for them.
Nerve of some people!!

 

[Cascadians]

This is a topic that requires some study and educational outreach. Our Newf Club asked me to write an article about my service Newf Orka and the new regulations. Regs can be summed up in 1 sentence: Service animal is now a dog and in some cases a miniature horse.

I'll type more later, right now have to go attend to my service dog

In Judi Adler's book there's a really interesting section on how the Guide Dogs for the Blind were developed.

When Orka was read by the animal communicator she said many service dogs are unhappy and stressed with their duties. Orka is OK with it, would rather be wild but is willing to serve as long as he gets plenty of wild dog time. The hardest part for him is waiting and being in hot places (normal human indoors temps in stores etc).

 

[R Taft]

I have to say, that I personally do not have any issues with dogs being anywhere....Especially working dogs of any kind. I call a Therapy dog a working dog. And personally i am trying very hard to get them more recognized here in Australia to be allowed in more places.

That said i am a stickler for rules..So if a Therapy dog is not allowed, I would not be there. But my Therapy dog is also an Assistance dog ........Katy has her full Assistance dog certificate for wheelchair bound people...I am not a wheel chair bound person, but the Therapy work she does is with a lot of kids in wheelchairs. And she pulls wheelchairs (sadly not at present), picks up stuff and opens shuts doors for anyone. She went from Therapy to Assistance, most likely, because for the Course i did I had to train six different therapy dogs, and I enjoyed Katy the most, because she was at home.

So I might be the person that annoys you with my dog, in her therapy mode......waiting to go somewhere as an Assistance dog.
Hopefully one day there will be a law, that says as long as your dog is well mannered, it can go anywhere.....just like most of Europe (western/northern). It is a joy to see all the dogs hop on and off trains/buses/taxi's and such...I love it

There is one huge difference in Australia....all Assistance dogs are certified....people can't just train their own and say they are. The dogs are trained for free, a lot of Assistance dogs come from the pounds....it costs about $20,000 to train one and the owner is matched with the dog. More like Guide dogs. It can be the persons own dog and they can have done most of the training, but it still needs to be certified to be legally allowed anywhere

 

[Jeepin' Rob]

Hopefully one day there will be a law, that says as long as your dog is well mannered, it can go anywhere.....

Unfortunately it is a small percentage of dog owners who screw it up for the rest of us. We have all met them at the dog park or seen them on the beach where dogs are not permitted (usually pooping).

Rob & Moby

 

[Cascadians]

" .... There is one huge difference in Australia....all Assistance dogs are certified .... people can't just train their own and say they are. The dogs are trained for free, a lot of Assistance dogs come from the pounds .... it costs about $20,000 to train one and the owner is matched with the dog. More like Guide dogs. It can be the persons own dog and they can have done most of the training, but it still needs to be certified to be legally allowed anywhere."

Ronnie, this is exactly what we need in the USA. Someday it will happen, but service dogs are very popular and $20,000 per dog is a lot of money -- reason why the rules are so lax, extraordinarily expensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/22/health/22patient.html
An Aide for the Disabled, a Companion, and Nice and Furry

Article is 3 years old, $50,000 per dog ...

For those special persons who have natural rapport with dogs and are excellent trainers, the opportunity here for you is tremendous.

 

[BLCOLE]

For those special persons who have natural rapport with dogs

You may remember that I used my second Newf, Vinnie, as a "hearing ear" dog. I am profoundly deaf: FORGET ABOUT me hearing a fire alarm, door bell, or phone when my hearing aids are out.

Vinnie came as a rehome from a breeder who also had hearing problems. He "may" or "may not" have been trained when I got him, but he INSTICTIVELY seemed to know that he needed to come get me when a phone rang, a door bell rang, or an alarm went off.

The point is: I didn't have to do any training. Vinne automatically did what he needed to do...

 

[R Taft]

You may remember that I used my second Newf, Vinnie, as a "hearing ear" dog. I am profoundly deaf: FORGET ABOUT me hearing a fire alarm, door bell, or phone when my hearing aids are out.

Vinnie came as a rehome from a breeder who also had hearing problems. He "may" or "may not" have been trained when I got him, but he INSTICTIVELY seemed to know that he needed to come get me when a phone rang, a door bell rang, or an alarm went off.

The point is: I didn't have to do any training. Vinne automatically did what he needed to do...

And yes, if Vinnie did that, he would be just assessed her in Australia, for frre to you, and get his certification. We do quite a few dogs that were trained by their owners,other trainers and they are just checked. it is to stop the "cheaters" to say their dogs is and Assistance dog/service dog. Because they dog are also tax deductible here and also get a lot of vet care for free.

As to the money.....The person who need a dog to be trained pays nothing, except for the stay in a local hotel to get used to the dog. The moneys is all from Government grants and donations and a lot of trainers put in free time.
The money is just put forward as a figure to use. A guide dog is about $50,000. Because they have a more permanent Centre and their own Breeding program. Assistant Dog, uses Guide dog failures and pound puppy/dogs or gifted dogs

 

[2ndchance]

You may remember that I used my second Newf, Vinnie, as a "hearing ear" dog. I am profoundly deaf: FORGET ABOUT me hearing a fire alarm, door bell, or phone when my hearing aids are out.

Vinnie came as a rehome from a breeder who also had hearing problems. He "may" or "may not" have been trained when I got him, but he INSTICTIVELY seemed to know that he needed to come get me when a phone rang, a door bell rang, or an alarm went off.

The point is: I didn't have to do any training. Vinne automatically did what he needed to do...

You can use your own dog as an assistance dog in this instance it is fine, but it is better if you get the dog tested for what it does or to have something that states the dog is in training/testing , the people I speak of were not training in an assistance ship, they were too young to become therapy dogs and should not have had on the recognizable tags of TDI. If they were in training as an assistance dog they would have had different apparatus on them. As an evaluator I certainly recognized the tags and the age of dog neither fit them as they were puppies, and there was no lose lead walking going on they were way out in front of the owners, pulling the owners in fact.
Ronnie there are organizations here for Therapy dog work (not assistance ) that will not test a dog that is a service dog or assistance dog specifically because that dog already has a job an its focus should be on the owner only, not the person wanting to pet it.

 

[R Taft]

I think our set-ups are quite different here.........There are a few cross-over dogs like katy, who do both, but not many. They are very strict here with the licenses for Assistance dogs, because they are so tax-deductible. And anything that has tax deductions here in Aus has to have a number :lol:........But that said, quite a few marginal useful dogs have been licensed for Assistance dog, because they do "help" their owner.......

The TDI tag really does not have the same rights here either, because they are not as strictly registered and have no tax deductions, unless they belong to a Trainer

 

[Cascadians]

Service dogs are being used for more conditions. Owners have special needs and it is not always apparent what the dog does for a person. Asking the disabled person is extremely embarrassing to the person; it's like being grilled to explain deficiencies and how the dog works so you can cope. Usually the person asking is no expert on various conditions in the first place.

My service Newf is also a Therapy Dog. He started visiting Lynn's eldercare facility when he was 14 weeks old. He was trained on the job so it comes naturally to him. I take him around with Lynn to visit the residents. Lynn has been running this place for over 30 years. Having the residents pet Orka does not prevent him from serving me or confuse him. He knows his rounds there and enjoys it except for the excessive heat. Actually petting is not the most common reaction. The most common is he triggers memories and lucid conversation and stimulates the residents with wholesome joy. He goes as a holiday party attraction and makes the residents laugh. When he was there with the miniature horse they were the hit parade for everybody, just strolling together thru the halls, because it was funny and unusual. Unfortunately the horse has moved to another state. Now Orka pulls his decorated cart thru the halls. His wagon won't fit except outside or the auditorium etc.

The temperament of every dog and owner is different so I do not rush to judgment. I see what might be some "fakes" on the bus but they do not cause any trouble and their owners obviously need something extra in life. I've mellowed on this issue.

Also, one cannot judge by normal obedience standards. Sometimes I'm exhausted and ask Orka to pull me. We walk a lot and he does not tire but sometimes I do. Right now I have pneumonia and am wiped out, but still go out with him, and ask him to pull. He is trained for joring. So it probably looks like I have an untrained unruly dog but actually he's doing what I'm asking.

Another thing is a person's conditions can change, so the tasks can change. I think the only thing that will solve all problems is certification, and right now that is not happening because of the costs involved. Personally, I don't get hyped about what other ppl are doing, because I can barely function and don't have time to worry about everybody else's shenanigans. Those with "invisible" disabilities get "the look" a lot when out with their service dogs. You learn to just let ppl stew in their own righteous ignorance.

The one thing that always surprises me, considering how dog crazy Orka is, is that he is the best when encountering other service dogs. He is utterly calm then. The other dogs react but Orka just glances briefly.

If you've ever gone about town with a service dog you know the general population has no idea what it is all about and will come up and lunge, pet, probe, ask questions, get in your face endlessly. It does not matter how large the sign on your dog's vest to Do Not Touch, Do Not Distract; ppl do not look or read. And that IS a distraction. I tried a huge sign but it did no good. So I just don't answer ppl all the time. Today if I tried to speak I'd throw up so ppl will think I'm rude. Sometimes I'm tempted to just spew barf all over the next person but that won't help anything. Anyway I have a fever and am rambling, have to figure out where we're going today.

 

[new_2_newf]

Leska, I thought you brought up some really excellent points for consideration....I have a co-worker that struggles with an anxiety disorder (also normally quite invisible) and we've been discussing a service dog to help her through her panic attacks....she didn't even know that was a possibility for her condition, she had just assumed there was nothing else except see-eye dogs.

 

[R Taft]

Katy is the same Leska, she seems to know what her job is at the moment. We allow petting, becuase when she wroks it is with kids...each and every dog is different, each situation is different. I would just like for all friendly, well behaved dogs to be able to go places...........with their owners

 

[2ndchance]

I have found that when you change the apparatus the dogs are smart enough to know what they are to do at that moment. However therapy dogs International does not see it that way, because they are to be used for mental stimulation only they never want the dog to become confused as to the job they are to do. I am not sure how many if any studies there are over several years that might show the dog continuing to the right job each time. That is something I would like to see. I tested a dog that was in S&R and the owner thought they might want to retire the dog from that and do therapy dog work. My thought was "I am testing a dog who is already trained in commands, so how hard could this be?" As it turned out I had to fail the dog. The dog was wearing a harness and was used to being far away from the owner in S&R so the owner could not get the dog through a heal. I suggested she practice at home with a collar and a bandanna so the dog can see different apparatus and act accordingly. A few weeks later she emailed and said it seemed to be working. Previous to that she could not even walk the dog down the street. I guess I have to wonder how much is it human error and how much dog error

 

[R Taft]

The search and rescue dog amazes me...i do tracking and a lot of our tracking friends do S&R....These dogs also go to the Royal Children's Hospital and do UDX, which is heeling to the extreme. But yes..katy knows harness is Tracking, martingale is Obedience or Rally O. Flat collar is therapy and her vest is Assistance and her life vest is swimming.......Annabelle even knows the difference between her draft and tracking harness. Mind you Annabelle is a useless tracker :lol: but she knows she is out front, what one is supposed to do out front :lol:. well that is another matter
I think it must have been what the owner taught her dog in your case. I agree, every owner/dog is an individual team.

Katy's Assistance work is not that different from her therapy work...because a lot of the kids she works with have wheelchairs. So she tends to do Assistance x therapy...mind you on-one is watching what we do, so maybe we are illegal according to Therapy International

I am truly not into lots of rules and laws..... Tessa is most likely more a real therapy dog, she just meets and greets and sits beside the elderly. Being petted and loved.....The best thing about Tessa is I can leave her with anyone, who knows her commands and she will work with them. I have left her with the staff, I know them really well. She is the only one I would ever consider doing that with. She is also the one, you can hand-over and allow anyone to do Obedience with....She often does Demo's with other members of our Club. Personally I think the temperament is the most important with control

 

[2ndchance]

I believe it was the handler that did not know what was expected of her. Mind you I have had humans hold their leash between thumb and pointer finger, way up in the air the le thinking that it is what lose lead waking is! I guess they felt that if they , the owner could walk like tinkerbelle with hardly a grasp on the leash even though the dog was four feet away from them they were demonstrating that they had control over the dog! Honest to Goodness this is why I wrote that book on therapy dog work and why I fail people the most! But yeah,TDI is a stickler on rules, they won't allow a deaf dog to be tested anymore either. There are some things I would like to see changed with the organization but I really don't have the input in the inner circle.

 

[plafleursr]

This year TDI has statement on bottom of Photo ID for TDI. THIS IS NOT A SERVICE OR ASSISTANCE DOG CERTIFICATION

 

[R Taft]

:lol: The famous inner circles of any organization are hard to get into

 

[2ndchance]

This year TDI has statement on bottom of Photo ID for TDI. THIS IS NOT A SERVICE OR ASSISTANCE DOG CERTIFICATION

They had to do that. Too many people were using their tags to get their dogs into places a regular assistance or Service dog would go. As an Evaluator I have seen people who get their dogs tested then never keep them socialized, they bring them to places under the auspices that they are working dogs and then the dog acts out, The real people who need a dog's assistance is the only one hurt in that situation. We have gotten lists of people that if we see them they need to be reported as their status has been taken away.
I am glad that is on the badge. TDI should be testing dogs again every three to five years this will ensure the owner is keeping up with socialization.