The unkindest cut of all...

[Newfie in Oz]

So,just wondering...

I'd like some advice on desexing since we've both only had one male dog (our precious Ben) and he didn't live long enough for us to have him desexed. Oskar's now a year old and we're thinking about desexing him in the future, we just don't know when to do it?

It seems there are two different schools of thought, some say anytime over a year is good, while some breeders and owners claim that because of their slower growth we should wait until they are fully mature. So, what are your thoughts/feelings on this? Who's right?

 

[NessaM]

Our breeder recommends 18 months of age.

Our vet says it doesn't make a bit of difference.

We waited until Nanook was a year old before neutering him just in case. Nanook is a smaller newf though and matured quickly - so at a year of age he was very nearly full grown.

As for who is right - until a number of double blind studies return consistent results rather than conflicting ones I think it may be impossible to say.

Here is a study that says dogs who are neutered young are at a higher risk for developing sarcomas.

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/11/11/1434

Neutering your pet is also supposed to increase the risk of hypothyroidism four times, and often causes obesity. Early age gonadectomies (prior to a year old) are supposed to increase incontinence, and delay the closure of growth plates, especially in giant breed dogs, and may result in longer leg bones, (http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/reprod/petpop/early.html), and here is an entire website devoted to the debate:

http://earlyspayneuter.blogspot.com/

I hope it helps!

 

[TerriW]

This breed takes time to mature, so I would wait till 2 years, personally, or 18 mos at the very earliest. That's MHO.

 

[Brody the Newf]

We had to agree and sign a contract saying that we'd wait 2 years. The breeder gave us a goody bag with a video of Brody's first 10 weeks and he said at least 2 times at the end "Remember, wait until your Newf is 2 before you fix him." Think his breeders felt strongly about waiting?

As an owner, hearing "Your dog will calm down once he's fixed" has been difficult. I think hormones are driving a lot of Brody's behaviors and I'm counting down the months until Brody is under the knife.

 

[Pam G]

I'm going to try and wait till about 18 mths with Bruce too. He is 10 mths now and we've had no problems with marking in the house or male to male aggession. SO so far, so good. Although he get VERY excited and hard to control around any female dogs...neutered or not. I hope this will pass.

 

[Lisa@Caeles Hills]

I've kept most of the large breed males I've owned un-neutered as long as possible and never had any problems. Rafe is a little over two and he's been very good. He lifts his leg alot outdoors but not indoors (even at shows) and at one show was standing next to a Rottie bitch who was in heat (bleeding on the floor...yuck!) and although he seemed real interested, he was not unusually hard to control. I am very responsible and have a fenced yard with electric around the botton so they cant dig their way out. My Golden had to be neutered by a year as my last dog (even neutered) was very dog aggressive and dominant(he was a rescue) and I didnt want him hurting my Golden but as soon as my Golden got neutered he started gaining weight and has had weight problems since. No more aggressive breeds for me so am hoping will not have any issues in future. I want another male Newf to show and hopefully will be able to keep both in the house un-neutered. I don't have any females.

 

[Blacknewfs]

There's been a lot of discussion about this on this forum. If you do a search on age to neuter you'll find lots of posts with varying opinions.

My boys are not neutered and it has not been a problem for us. Like Lisa, we have a securely fenced yard and are responsible owners who do not let any of our pets wander. They are always under supervision. (My girls are spayed though, since the current research suggests that the health benefits of spaying outweigh the risks.) Unless one of my boys develops a health issue which requires neutering, or new research becomes available which suggests a better route, they will be staying intact.

Here's a good article Long Term Health Effects of SPaying and Neutering

 

[Jorge's mum]

my lab and Jorge my newfie are not neutered, Jorge is 19mnths old and Lenny is 3.5yrs old, Lenny did have lots of anesthetics due to injury to his teeth, and the last one he had it really took it out of him so I am not putting him under again unless I am forced to cos he saw a specialist dentist it wasnt an option for him to be castrated whist already under as he wouldnt do it Jorge would not be considered being castrated until he was 2yrs at the earliest- but I may not castrate him either

Molly my lurcher is spayed

 

[Yogi & Cordelia's Erin]

Not sure if your pup is male or female, and I can only speak from experience.

We had Cordy fixed at seven months, per the advise of our (then) vet who was not experienced with large breeds.

His rational was he would be nervous about performing the surgery on a dog much larger. At seven months she was 85lbs.

She continued to mature, and has stayed at between 126-128 her entire adult life. It's a great size for her.

The downside is she has an incontinence problem and has to take Proin twice daily to stay on top of it. Sometimes the Proin doesn't seem to work. Basically it's a lot like a child who wets the bed ... the same behavior for her.

From what other Newf netters, and other vets since have told me, it's commonplace to see this with female Newfs (and i gather female large-breeds) who were fixed too young.

I would say wait until 2 years, unless there are aggression issues, especially in a male.

And to voice an opinion on your thread title, spaying and neutering is not unkind. In fact I think it's one of the most responsible things a dog owner can do, unless you WANT to breed, and have the knowledge, financials, and dedication to do it.

Keep in mind that most dog aggression issuse are seen in dogs that are not properly handled/trained and usually, unaltered. I know the ASPCA was on our local radio today talking about fatal dog attacks in Ohio, and she said the 11 that occurred last year were all with unaltered dogs.

Good luck with your decision, whatever it is.

 

[TerriW]

I should add that I didn't neuter my first Newf until he was 5, and only then because he had to have other surgery, so I had the vet do it at the same time.

Ben, at left there <<<, was neutered at 18 mos because he was marking in the house on a daily basis AND trying to roam to find pretty girl dogs. He ceased both behaviors and is much calmer now.

BUT - he had to be re-stitched twice, got a massive infection in his groin area, wore a plastic collar for almost 4 weeks, and it cost me $1100 overall for the neutering.

Definitely something to think through!

 

[KatieB]

You will get tons of opinions on this and I really think you need to take a good look at your dog and decide. Murph's breeder was adamant we wait until he was 2. Her main reason was that she didn't want him going under anesthesia twice for his OFA xrays and for a neuter. So we did his OFA's and his neuter at 2 years of age. She said for health of the dog she preferred they remain intact forever, however, she only advises that in responsible owners who can care for an intact male.

Murphy had some serious fear issues and literally a week after the neutering he is a different dog. He's no longer anxious, nervous, fearful etc. and I think the neutering is a big reason for that. We started drafting with him right after his neuter and within 6 weeks he was ready for a draft test. The level of focus, obedience and lack of fear of the cart was something he did not possess prior. So for him I wish we had neutered earlier.

Bottom line everyone's dog and situation is different. I think it is better to wait until at least 2 years, however, if you aren't able or willing to care for a horny intact male or think your dog may benefit from it for some other reason than do it earlier. Be advised though that they don't always calm down or become gentlemen following the procedure.

 

[sarnewfie]

oh boy, this has been discussed so much you can search in breeding and genetics or the health section, regardless i feel kinda like katie`s breeder does.

 

[Garden_girl]

I am in the wait until they are older camp for health reasons, many others don't see it that way and don't agree with the studies, I think responsible pet ownership does weigh into that line of thinking (especially where Vets are concerned). We have two intact males and a spayed female. My Newfs have never marked in a territorial fashion inside the house. I did however, have a Lhasa Apso that marked inside the home every time someone came to the door, he was neutered at a young age, and started territorial marking AFTER he was neutered, so that doesn 't always solve the problem.

My feeling about Vets is that you almost always get the standard song and dance about neutering/spaying around 6 months of age, I seriously think they don't get much of an education beyond that except with the procedure itself. I do believe that hormones influence growth and I believe that if you spay/neuter early, you are cutting off the hormones that influence a dog's growth (causing the growth plates to close early)and could be jeopardizing their health in the future. One of the reasons that girls have the incontinence problem is because low estrogen (hormone) levels lead to a weak bladder sphincter, esp. in large breed dogs. I believe the stat. is 20% of all females spayed before their first estrus have weak sphincter muscles that result in incontinence at some period of time in their lives.

If you have a Newf with no issues (aggression, marking, behavioral) why NOT wait, just to be on the safe side?

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

We are agonizing over this right now...Max is 2...we have made the decision to not show him. He is a very mellow, gentle boy with NO signs of agression...even with a huge (same weight...125 lbs) 7 1/2 month old male puppy. We wanted to wait until he was two so we could have his hips and elbows checked for ofa at the same time. I just don't know if I am ready to have this done to him...can we have 2 intact boys? If Marcus ever out-grows this ugly stage we do plan on showing him. I have read lots of studies both for and against neutering.

 

[Garden_girl]

You can Linda, we do. When Tucker was about 14 months old, (I call it.. coming of age ) he started to challenge Murphy for his position in the pack. Contrary to advice I have seen, we did not let them duke it out, these are dogs with big, big teeth and we were not going to have any arguments settled without our intervention. They can find their place in the pack in a peacable manner and you may not have any trouble considering how mellow and gentle Max is, Marcus could just assume the alpha position. If I could establish pack order among our dogs myself, the gentlest dog would be alpha, but in my experience, it usually doesn't work that way. The more dominant a dog is, the more persistent. At any rate, you have some time to mull it all over and watch their behavior.

 

[Mrs Beblo]

CRAP!! Why didn't I see this before the 19th??
We had Buford done then & he won't even be 1 until November 1st!!
Part of the reason was because I wanted us HOME with him after surgery!
The other part was the impending jealousy between him & Mr B!
It was *cute* when he got between us when he was 75 lbs, but at 125 lbs, *cute* was no longer cute!
It was getting to the point where Mr B and I (Heaven Forbid!!) Couldn't even *kiss in the kitchen* anymore!
Honestly, any affection in "Public Rooms" was severely interrupted by a very jealous pup (that shall remain nameless!)
Now....contrary to what I've lead you to believe after the feather cutting incident, Mr B & I absolutely adore each other!!
Since the time was right & Lil Baby Dog could be supervised for 2 weeks, we did the deed.
~ If there are any "Ladies in Waiting" I apologize, but we got the pup for a pup! (Mr B is most distressed about the fact that Lil Baby Dog *never "got" any* before the big snip....I assure you, he was only thinking with his "Small Brain"!)
God Forgive Me if I've done irreperable harm!
Currently, Buford is *STILL* giving Mr B a run for his money, although today, while Mr B was at work...That Lil Baby Dog was nuthin' more than a snuggle bunnie while I enjoyed a day off and Chick Flicks! xoxo Mrs B

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Mrs. B...Max was the same way at that age. Our sweet, mellow boy wouldn't even allow us to kiss and forget anything else since he slept in our bedroom. Think huge Newf...on bed...not good timing. He wasn't agressive just "what am I missing? are we giving kisses and snuggles...good I love them! He outgrew it at about 18 months and now we "kiss" in peace. I can't believe we discuss stuff like this on a "Newf" chat room.

[ 10-24-2007, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: M & M's Mom Linda ]

 

[Mrs Beblo]

Newf Chat Rooms are *hotter* than that fake porn crap!
We speak the truth here!! (all I want is a kiss!!)
Mr B strictly *forbids* Baby Dog to enter the bedroom. He says: "Dog! You have taken My Woman and My House...I'll be *daRNED" if you're taking my bedroom too!"
I hear ya, and I feel for ya!
Baby Dog may have a different take on the subject though!

xoxo Mrs B!

 

[Jorge's mum]

you can have 2 intact males as I do, I do not let them sort things out themselves either, I stop unacceptable behaviour- now if Jorge gets pushy with Lenny, Len look straight to me and I stop it! vice versa!they are not even allowed to take chew toys from one another and they wait til the other dog has finished they even que at the water bowl after play very civilised!lol

 

[Alicia]

We are going to wait till Rocky is 18 months for the potential health benefits and the breeder's advice although he does tend to "hump" every dog he plays with and it is really annoying. He does seem very hormonal at times and does not to seem to care... male or female. Today is his 9 month b-day so we are half-way there.